my daughter went from I'm happy n loved to worst dad ever overnight!

[jaygee007]

Hi, I am hoping someone will take the time to read this and give me their honest opinion please.

I have a 14 year old daughter who seemed perfectly happy living with myself and my partner Monday to Friday until a few days ago when her continuing rudeness led me to add an extension to her length of time grounded for previous back chat when asked about the chores that she wasn't doing, which has been going on for far too long in IMO and that of my partner. Typical teenage stuff.

Anyway, it escalated and she phoned her mum, who drove an hour to pick her up. My daughter has since texted me to say essentially that I am the worst dad
and have made her feel terrible for the last weeks/months.

It’s all a total shock. I have “messaged” her to say that I would regularly ask her how she was and if I was asking too much of her, and she has always seemed happy. I even added that if I have raised my voice to her 6 times in a year it would be a high guess, but I did apologise for having raised my voice at all and realise that I should not have let it get so far, but she pushes and I have to discipline her with grounding her or taking her phone away.

In this instance she mocked being grounded for a month and threatened me with giving her a year, why not 2 years type of thing. I calmly said I could only realistically give her 1 month grounded but I would take her phone. She defied me and said no. She said no again and phoned her mum. She left upset and I was cold with her as I was angry and hurt that she would walk away from this family. She, I believe is being very dishonest with me about how she feels and I do believe she could just walk away from our relationship. Something her mother is good at. I haven’t said that, but on here I think it is relevant.

I have read articles about parents who turn a child against the other parent. I have had GFs in the past whose dads were cracking. When I pointed this out, it would usually end up with the daughter-father relationship becoming really strong, sometimes at the cost of the mothers relationship, and unfortunately so as they were great mothers, just in this instance, a little bit problematic.

I don’t think her mum should have taken her away and not let me deal with the situation. Perhaps she could have taken her for a tea until she calmed down (and me too) and then brought her back to me to sort out the situation. However, she has done similar things before and now it has gone all even weirder and out of nowhere my daughter has said I am a terrible father, according to a text message reply.

She recently sent a brief message to ask to draw a line and move forward, we then had a brief conversation. I had hoped it was a way for her to get out of a situation that had got out of her control - perhaps assisted by her mother. She sounded like my daughter and was agreeing that there aren’t any instances of being unfair as to be upset at what was being asked of her, An amnesty.

However, now I am not sure she accepts any responsibility for her actions and believes I have to take the blame for getting angry at her for not doing her basic chores and answering me and my partner back (she has lived with us for 5 years - no problems).

It’s literally, as far as me, my partner, and closest friends are concerned, not me asking too much and my partner believes (my mother RIP said the same) that I am often too soft on my daughter. However, my best friend, when I listed my daughter's chores, said he would move in with her mother too for an easy life. We don’t believe we ask her to do too much - look after her pets needs, empty and fill the dishwasher, and clean the floors once a week.

I hope that makes sense. I suppose if I was to ask a questions, they would include:

Should her mother have taken her away or at least called me to check what had happened?

Should I still continue with her penalties (can’t think of a better word just now) or let her off (amnesty) or ask her what she thinks is appropriate?

PS: I did touch on this during our brief phone call and explained that now I don’t know if I am annoying her and at what point she would just get upset again and phone her mum. Her replies sounded like my daughter, caught in a web of her own making, but her messages and actions are not congruent.

If anyone feels they have the time to reply. I appreciate your help if you do.

Your daughter's mother is totally undermining you, and that is going to be very hard to deal with. If your daughter runs to mummy every time she has to face the consequences of her actions, and mummy plays the "good cop", the road ahead is going to be very challenging. I'm sorry you're dealing with this, and you are definitely not expecting too much of her regarding her chores.

I guess this is the problem when they're older.
My child is younger and already wants to phone daddy when things aren't going her way. I don't let her as this is the only time she wants to phone him.
When they've got their own phones I guess they can though.
Have you managed to speak to her mum. I don't know if this is a possibility here or not

Thanks. I get on with her mum in small doses. She is the type of person where you are agreeing with her and she is still arguing with you. I can laugh about with her now, but in these situations she is infuriating.

I think it is a lesson that my daughter needs to learn. I have said to her that I don't agree with her leaving the way she did and that I think it is a bad characteristic. Again it is a shock, but her mum did it and I swore it would never happen again and it hasn't, until now, and it seems to be my own daughter. Id didn't see that coming. Same with her mum. The day before she left me for the last time, she had probably said she loved me half a dozen times, always had.

Thanks. I think you are correct. I feel it is worse than the content of the original problem. It is the fact that she is quite happy to all of a sudden treat me like this. It seems very callous and I didn't see that in her before. My wife is not happy at all, but I know I have to be careful of her input although I think she is fair. Very fair.

It sounds like she feels your penalities are inappropriate - I have had feedback from my children about how they felt when I did this - they particularly hated grounding and phone removal and in that sense built up resentment and more bad behaviour rather than being effective. At 14 she is perhaps ready to have more adult conversations with you about expectations and what she feels might be appropriate sanctions.
Backchat is pretty normal for the teenage stage and you might think of trying a different tactic with it - ignore, humour talk it over when your daughter is in a better mood etc.
Chores - not unreasonable to expect some help but how are you handling it? Making black and white demands or negotiating a suitable time to do them?

Hi, I'm sure she loves you, being a teenager is hard work. But it all sounds a little businesslike, regardless of how many/few chores/raised voices/amnesties. I understand your concerns for her about what she's been asked to do etc, but do you have fun, silliness, times she would miss if she didn't call her Mum? I understand you are not wanting to be the Dad who takes the easy route and doesn't really parent, but she is growing up and will also want to have fun 'almost adult' times with you (TV, films, socialising wise), before she spreads her wings. It's hard work constantly feeling judged or watched as a teen - but if she wanted to chill with you rather than escape you could start to build a more adult relationship?

I think that tidying own room and emptying/filling the dishwasher are appropriate tasks for a girl of her age ., Perhaps not all the time ...taking turns with others in the household when doing dishwasher but I think asking her to wash floors is more unusual at her age 🤔 I also think that grounding for a month is a bit extreme. Imagine if you had no access to going out anywhere for a while month, perhaps even with phone taken. No access to friends whatsoever. When teens start kicking off more and heavier penalties seldom work. Maybe a reset needed. As you call it an amnesty with a rethink of management. I know it's hard ...especially when they can play one household against another but unless something changes the hostilities will only increase as she gets older and she will soon be of an age where she will make permanent choices regarding where she wants to be.

A month of grounding really is a lot. While her mum underling you really isn't good and nor is your DD running back to her. But I do think you could rethink your punishment strategies. At 14, being grounded for a month can be very socially damaging, especially if you take the phone away, too.

I think you need a calm conversation with DD about why she's answering back, about being part of the family team regarding chores, and how she can avoid ending up with a punishment. And on your part, in this conversation, you need to express that you want to avoid getting into this situation again, and how you want to avoid needing to ground her or take her phone. That you recognise that she's growing up and want to have a mutually respectful relationship.

In short what I mean is parenting gets by with a variety of numbers of chores etc, lots or none, I'm sure that's not the problem, it seems to be the lack of flexibility for her to begin to be treated as an (almost) equal, that's what they want, that's the next stage of parenting.

Grounding for a month for back chat and not doing chores sounds very excessive.

Just reread and also I really think you are projecting what happened with your partner onto your daughter. It's not the same, of course she loves you, you're her Dad, she's doing this because she's 14, not because there's a problem with your relationship. You'll be fine, keep doing what is fair for both of you.

"I do believe she could just walk away from our relationship. Something her mother is good at."

Op you do realise your daughter and her mother are different!
The comment above makes me wonder how often you drop little comments like that into your conversations
you sound bitter. perhaps your daughter is picking up on that.
And grounding her .for a month for a bit of back chat is too much

This is way too much punishment. As you're seeing, it doesn't work - the only result is that she will draw away from you. You will see if you continue that her resistance will escalate, and no wonder: a month away from friends both on and offline is absolutely psychologically damaging at this age (any age!) and you are putting her at risk. It will feel like a denial of her personhood, and certainly that you don't have her welfare at heart and are more concerned with 'winning'.

As many posters have said, parents of teens need to rethink disciplinarian parenting and find a halfway house where the child can practice being an adult within boundaries. The boundaries are there for their safety, not to protect your authority. You need to find a way to persuade her that her chores (WAY too much btw) are the right thing to do because you are a team - not 'because you say so'

I actually think that her amnesty suggestion is a good one, and I think that you should let the grounding/phone confiscation go. I think that you’re right about her having got in too deep and needing a hand to find a way to back down without losing face.

can you sit down with her and talk it through? Imagine if she was the parent what chores would she expect of her teen? What chores would she do herself? Why would she think it was important for her teen to have chores? What consequences would she have in place for not doing them? How about for backchat?

If her suggestions are reasonable can you implement them? Might get more buy-in if she’s had a hand in decision making….

Grounding her for a month and taking her phone away as well are pretty harsh punishments for a teenager. You are taking away all contact with her friends. That is pretty drastic when you are 14.

What did she do that you believed her behaviour was so appalling that it warranted that level of punishment?

Grounding someone for a month is ridiculous.

You need to find a better way.

I don't blame her for removing herself from that situation which you created

Punishment just doesn't work with teens. Grounding for a month is ridiculous and taking her phone isn't going to help you deal with the actual issue - but it is going to make her withdraw from you.
Your chores are more than I ask my 15 yr old to do - but she will willingly help with emptying the dishwasher/vacuuming but it's not 'her' job.
You raise your voice far too often. I doubt I have raised mine that often in 15 years. Losing your rag means you've already lost the argument.
Your DD's Mums first responsibility is to her daughter, not to you. If I was divorced and my DD rang and said her Dad had grounded her for a month, shouted at her and was threatening to take her phone for a bit of back chat I would have collected her too.

Grounding her for a month and taking her phone away? Wow, my DSs would have to have done something monumentally bad for me to even consider a punishment that long.

She is with you Monday to Friday, when do you have "fun time" together? It seems that life with you is in danger of being just the drudgery part of life, and fun weekend life is with her mum. The contrast for her would be quite stark. Dad's place is weekday drudgery, getting up on time, set bedtimes, school, homework, chores, and now being grounded and having phone taken away. And I'm actually quite curious as to what grounding represented? What did you prevent her doing Mon- Fri?

There are other ways of allocating chores - link them with pocket money, have them done "together" so they are family time (eg my DSs washed the car with me on the weekend) so they feel fair.

So what will happen going forward? Can your ex look after your DD during the week, school runs, hobbies etc? Can you take weekends instead and have some time to be the fun dad for awhile?

Thanks everyone. You all made some really good and balanced points. I seem to be asking too much of her. I even wrote:

"my best friend, when I listed my daughter's chores, said he would move in with her mother too for an easy life."

The consensus seems to be that I am too severe with my punishment.

And that I am projecting my relationship with her mother. I am aware that could be the case. I don't believe I have made any reference to this with my daughter.

I think they are the main points. I will make changes.

Do I need to apologise to her mother for calling her an idiot - in text - for taking our daughter away from me in such a situation?

I have said I meant her behaviour was idiotic and I didn't mean she was an idiot, it was just a text message,

I still believe that it is bad parenting.

My daughter has asked me again by text message to apologise.

This is one of the reasons I think this is weird. She doesn't seem to want to accept any responsibility, has been very distant with me - and this is from a loving daughter who everyone said was a daddy's girl, is acting quite aloof, and is still demanding I apologise to her mum when I think it is her mum who should apologise to me.

I don't think - from your own description of the incident - that your ex owes you an apology. But perhaps you should apologise for calling her an idiot, even if said in the heat of the moment.
WinterDeWinters advice is good. Disciplinarian parenting isn't great for building rapport with your teen.

I think your punishments are way over the top - enough people have said this and it seems you're hearing. I don't think you left her mum any option to collect her daughter. You owe her an apology and your daughter will 100% be aware of your contempt for her mother.

"She doesn't seem to want to accept any responsibility" - you said this about your daughter. To be honest she's shown more responsibility than you. It's really hard being a teenager and it's a tough ride being a parent at times. Hopefully you will reflect on having been rigid and overbearing. Your daughter obviously cares about you a lot. If you take a good look at your part in this, I'm sure the two of you will work this out.

Thanks everyone. I have some humble pie to eat. Some thinking to so. More apologies. More lessons to learn... sigh... ;-)

If you don't feel your daughter's claims (eg you being horrible to her over past few months) are credible, she could be being a bit manipulative... Teens often are. If her mother is the argumentative sort, it might be easier to send her a detailed explanatory text rather than have a verbal conversation, so you can fully get your side out and let her process it without her jumping in to argue. Of course do engage and respect her response still.

As for the punishment, here's something to consider. We do this with toddlers and also SEN kids, but this may be useful for teens who are balls of emotions/angst, with brains still developing: immediate consequences.

Always explicitly and immediately link the consequence (good or bad) to their behaviour - don't just leave huge gaps in between so they lose the association. Don't suddenly "back punish" them for past sins. Some kids don't have the executive functioning skills to logically internalise it. It won't have the immediate rewiring/reinforcement effect you want; it will only increase their frustration and rebellion against what they view as a sudden arbitrary ruling.

Also if possible state the consequence as a warning before the behaviour and not after (if they've already done the behaviour, say "if you do it again, xyz"), so they get the chance to adjust their behaviour beforehand - then implement the consequence if they don't.

And yes punishment has to be proportionate to the "crime", this is part of forming the logical link between behaviour and consequence in your teen's wee noggin!

"back punish". I do that. What you said about her not having the "functioning skills" makes sense as she would say she didn't understand why she was suddenly getting grounded when it was a months backlog of 2ndth chances.