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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Is my 14yo DD going off the rails? Feeling a bit desperate.

32 replies

LittleAnonymouse · 10/01/2023 11:51

I’ve NCd for this as some of my posts under my normal username are somewhat identifiable and I would prefer to not share this with anyone I know in RL.
This is really REALLY long – I’m sorry, but I am at my wit's end. I don’t use the word devastated lightly (often banded around for melodrama, I find) but I really am at the moment.

For those TLDR people – ADHD 14YO DD gets bullied, then makes new groups of friends and starts getting into trouble (for minor things) at school, plus drinking/smoking/vaping...and god knows what else. Now wondering WTF to do for the best.

Background: I have a 14 YO DD (one of the youngest in Yr 10) who has ADHD (recently medicated – still trying to find the correct dose), and exhibits all the symptoms of combined type ADHD to a lesser or greater extent, including focus and attention problems, difficulty forming and maintaining relationships, risky behaviour (but always taking the form of physical behaviour such as climbing very high things etc.), desperation to be liked etc. She also has chronic tic disorder. She had always been such a bright, gregarious, happy kid who, although somewhat difficult due to her ADHD symptoms, wasn't badly behaved, indeed she is/was very popular with adults/her teachers. She was the victim of some nasty bullying at high school for about 18 months, which called calmed down at the start of this academic year.

About 2 months ago, I found a vape pen in her room. DH and I obviously disposed of the offending item, talked to her at length (not yelling, more trying to educate/reason with her) and she was grounded. At this time she had made friends with a group of kids her age (from various schools) in a close-by village, who I didn’t know well but was happy that she finally had a group of friends after the bullying of the previous months, that probably clouded my judgement as I had reservations about some of them (nothing massive) but I encouraged the friendships by ferrying her to and from the village – the friendship with this group seems to have fizzled out (well actually, it went out with a bang when 3 of the boys threw eggs at her “as a joke” a couple of weeks ago). She had also made friends with some new girls at school, again whom I was not at all keen on – but at least she had someone to sit with at lunch etc.

There have been a couple more vape pen incidents, both dealt with in the same way, but with more serious punishments and promises from her that she’s seen the error of her ways. I believed her. A couple of weeks ago she visited her friends after school on the Friday and returned and went straight to sleep (v unusual). When I tried to wake her for dinner it was almost impossible to rouse her and I was getting VERY worried until I managed to, it was then I smelt the booze on her breath and she admitted that she had drank a few cans of lager. Obviously, I was not at all happy with her and it prompted a bigger conversation about where she was heading if she continued on this path – and the people she was hanging around with. Although we took it seriously, we also looked at it in the context of her being a teen, with neurodiversity, who has struggled to make and keep friends.

By this time, I had asked to see her phone and found photos of both groups of new friends with cans and vape pens, I also found photos of her in her underwear which she had shared with a boy. We, again, sat her down and tried to explain the seriousness of the situation – I’ve always tried to eek out of her why she was doing these things and listen to her, and we’ve already had various pre-emptive conversations about social media, sharing words or photos which are out of her control as soon as she presses send, the consequences of this etc. I told her I would be spot-checking her phone from then on – not that doing this was a guarantee of being able to monitor her, considering most of her chats are deleted/not visible once opened (Whatsapp).

Last night it all came to a head. She asked to be dropped off at her dance class early so she could “warm up with a friend”, which I happily did. When she returned home she had dinner and went upstairs. I went to check on her when it got to bedtime and she was already asleep, with yet another vape pen lying on her chest. She woke up, and of course, I was very upset with her after all her promises, as was DH. We sat down with her yet again and made it perfectly clear how utterly disappointed we were and I asked to see her phone. Well, bloody hell, not only has she been vaping; there were photos of her smoking cigarettes with this friend earlier, and conversations about taking alcohol (spirits) into school and drinking it afterwards - which she admitted she's been doing with her friends (not that she's been particularly late home after school, maybe half an hour). I gave her the chance to tell us about anything else she had hidden in her room, but she insisted the vape pen was it, not believing her (after recent events and the photos) DH went through her room and found 2, mainly empty, large bottles of spirits (Vodka and Bacardi), a pack of cigarettes, various lighters and vape pens … and 2 condoms. She swears the condoms were given to her by a friend as a joke, but I’ve got no idea whether this is true or not (maybe I should be grateful that she has contraception?!).

I’m not proud of myself, but I hit the roof and said some things I shouldn’t have such as how she was destined to fail in life if she continues down this road. We’ve taken her phone off her, along with her iPad, she is grounded and we are taking her and picking her up from school. For how long, I just don’t know. After seeing the conversations and photos of this group of friends I absolutely do not want her to hang around with them – especially as it turns out, one of them is the ringleader of her bullies from last year (WTF?? After everything this girl did to her), I am under no illusion that she is any less culpable than the rest of them but knowing how impressionable and desperate to please she is, hanging around with these girls (who I have found out have a history of getting into trouble), is a recipe for disaster.

What the fuck do I do? On the one hand, I have a child who has struggled to form and maintain friendships who I don’t want to alienate further from her peers, and on the other a child who is seemingly going off the rails. I can’t force her not to hang out with these girls at school, I suppose a have a little more control outside of school, but I do not want to be a helicopter parent who micromanages her child’s friendships, which I think will provoke her into pushing things even further.

I feel like the worst parent in the world, did I screw up so badly that this was inevitable? I’m trying to walk this tightrope of supporting and listening to your child along with disciplining them, holding them accountable for their behaviour and preparing them for the big wide world, but clearly failing catastrophically. Some of you may indeed find me melodramatic, but I have shed a lot of tears over the past 12 hours or so. Of course, the actions are very upsetting, but she’s lied so convincingly over the past couple of months or so – teens lying is nothing new, I know, but she was still insisting even at the point of knowing she was about to be found out when we looked in her room. I think I'm also upset about the fact that things seemed to be on the up for her as well; she was doing so much better academically since being medicated, and she was making friends.

OP posts:
YellowHpok · 10/01/2023 11:59

So she is drinking, vaping, sending inappropriate photos and probably having sex?

Mixed into that is ADHD and a challenge with finding the right meds as well as friends?

It's a lot for her. A few things stand out:

  • how is she funding the vape pens?
  • why isn't she hiding them better?
  • who is sexually active with?

I think its OK to go ballistic sometimes. However she can absolutely pull this back so im not sure the catastrophising is going to help.

What is she interested in? Does she have any hobbies?

YellowHpok · 10/01/2023 12:00

Also, you're actually a really good parent, because you care and are trying your best.

LittleAnonymouse · 10/01/2023 12:08

YellowHpok · 10/01/2023 11:59

So she is drinking, vaping, sending inappropriate photos and probably having sex?

Mixed into that is ADHD and a challenge with finding the right meds as well as friends?

It's a lot for her. A few things stand out:

  • how is she funding the vape pens?
  • why isn't she hiding them better?
  • who is sexually active with?

I think its OK to go ballistic sometimes. However she can absolutely pull this back so im not sure the catastrophising is going to help.

What is she interested in? Does she have any hobbies?

how is she funding the vape pens? I don't know, I believe some of the ones we found were destined for her friends so they would have given her the money for them. Doesn't explain the booze though. Apparently, she gets the vape pens from a boy in the year above and the alcohol was bought by someone they asked outside a shop. She gets £10 a week pocket money, and got quite a bit of cash for Xmas. I need to find out (there are probably lots of questions I need to ask her, but it was so fraught last night, and then she had to go to bed, so I didn't cover everything).

why isn't she hiding them better? That is a question I have asked myself - does she want them to be found? Is this a cry for help/support? She used to see a therapist but didn't want to go anymore (she wasn't being very open with them, so wasn't getting much out of the sessions). I made moves to reinstate these before Xmas, maybe this is my prompt to actually make an appointment.

who is sexually active with? God knows! There were lots of boys in this friendship group in the next village, and she did have quite a few sleepovers (although I believed these to be all female).

OP posts:
LittleAnonymouse · 10/01/2023 12:14

YellowHpok · 10/01/2023 12:00

Also, you're actually a really good parent, because you care and are trying your best.

That means a hell of a lot - thank you.

OP posts:
Turquoisesea · 10/01/2023 12:30

I just wanted to say I really feel for you as I’m in a similar situation with my DD14. I’ve suspected she has ADHD / ASD but she’s not diagnosed. She has also got in with a group of teenagers mainly older boys over the last year and her behaviour has deteriorated massively. She constantly vapes although we’ve spoken to her at length about the risks and also thrown them away etc. I’ve also caught her drinking vodka, she doesn’t seem to care about school, she wants to be out all the time and even when we say no she goes anyway. We tried stopping her once which resulted in a physical fight that was awful so can’t do that again. She won’t let me check her phone at all and if I try and take it she attacks us. This group have been not nice to her too at times but even after saying she doesn’t like them she’s started hanging around with them again. The sad thing is she’s got so much potential, she’s funny and bright and could do anything she wanted but since she got in with this group her whole personality has changed and she swears at us and won’t listen to anything we say. I’ve no solutions I’m afraid but we’ve also felt like we have failed. Her DB (who has ASD) doesn’t behave like this, I think a huge part of it as her friendship group and wanting to be liked but we can’t afford to move from where we live and we can’t lock her in the house either. Sorry you are going through this too.

ClawedButler · 10/01/2023 12:30

OH you poor thing, you must be tearing your hair out.

FWIW, this sounds a lot like me as a teenager. It was desperation to 'fit in' in my case - the popular kids at school seem to be doing this stuff, so I wanted to as well. I felt deeply unhappy, and not wanted at school or at home, and remember crying for hours wishing someone would tell me what it was about me they all hated so much so I could change it. I was angry and sad all the time.

I also went to a counsellor around that time, but just like your DD I didn't really share that much, so got nothing out of it. What DID help was finding a peer group that was nothing to do with school - is there an interest she might have that she could explore with a completely different group? Dance classes and drama classes are great for building confidence, which is certainly what I was lacking.

If it helps, although I did go off the rails a bit, I'm doing alright now. Got a degree, and a job I love, and am married with a child, and am so straight-laced these days you'd never believe I was this horrible sulky wee cowbag getting blotto down the park and shoplifting and all sorts.

LittleAnonymouse · 10/01/2023 12:45

Turquoisesea - bloody hell, I am so sorry you're going through that. Are you struggling to get help/a diagnosis for her potential ADHD/ASD? I struggled for many years until a teacher and GP identified an issue and really supported DD and us a couple of years ago after many years of trying (I even gave up for a while). It's hell isn't it - wanting desperately for your child to be healthy and not knowing how to help them.

ClawedButler - I really am, I just feel so helpless. I've always put DD in various after-school activities, not least to use up some of her energy, so she does diving, dance and we're just about to start pottery classes together (a request of hers!). We were also talking about her joining the school hockey team as she's been asked before, but it turns out there isn't one for her year group.

It is nice to hear of others who recognise themselves (as children) in DD and go on to have a fulfilling life; I was a bit of a tearaway in my younger days as well - so in some ways I am a hypocrite (I also suspect I have ADHD myself but haven't sought a diagnosis), but, although I seem to have trod a similar path to you ClawedButler, insofar as ultimately being quite successful (degree etc.), it has been an incredibly bumpy ride with my mental health still being affected by the experiences of my formative years to this day.

OP posts:
LittleAnonymouse · 10/01/2023 12:46

wanting desperately for your child to be happy *and healthy

OP posts:
LittleAnonymouse · 10/01/2023 12:47

(god knows what happened to the formatting there!)

OP posts:
LittleAnonymouse · 11/01/2023 11:24

We had a long talk with her with lots of tears last night. Did the "safe space" thing and she told me what felt like the rest of the situation/things that she's done. For example, she told me that she'd tried weed with another girl (one of the ner-do-wells from the other village) so we talked about how it made her feel ("paranoid and weird") and the effects it can have on developing brains, especially ADHD brains, and mental health. She sounded pretty convinced but who knows? Think we're making some headway but we just have to take her word on some things.

It turns out she's been vaping the equivalent of about 20 cigarettes a week, and she is insistent she wants to stop this time, so we've come to an agreement that we'll buy her some zero-nicotine vape pens to use for a month to wean her off and see how she gets on.

Has anyone read this managed to get their kid off vaping or smoking?

OP posts:
Zola1 · 11/01/2023 11:35

Hello

I think an awful lot of what you describe comes under a general heading of teenage risk taking behaviours.
Is there a healthier place to redirect her to take some more 'managed' risks?
It's really positive she is talking to you. How has she explained the empty bottles and why they are in her room? Is she being pressured to buy/fund/hide things?
Overall, vaping isn't the end of the world IMO especially if she swaps to the 0 nicotine. My DD13 goes to a girls school and told me that almost all of the girls walk round with vapes in their hands even in the corridors etc. I'm nor saying encourage or allow but maybe not the hill to die on compared to the other stuff. It is huge right now. For me I would be far more concerned about the drinking and cannabis as situations can become so much more dangerous if she isn't in control of herself/fully aware of what's happening. She is going to want to stay 'in' with the girls though as 14 is such an important age for friendships and their primary relationships start to be outside of the house. Can she tell them she is on new ADHD meds and can't drink because it will react badly with her medication and make her really ill? You aren't going to be able to make her make different friends but you can help her with ways to manage situations and make safer choices, plan ways to respond etc.
In relation to the underwear pics...again, likely she wants to be liked and accepted. Talk to her about how she would feel if her dad or her teacher saw these pics, and how images are totally out of her control once she sends them. Talk to her about whether a boy who wants nudes actually likes and respects her, and does she know him well enough to trust him? Would she print off a pic of herself in her underwear and hand it to him?

PragmaticWench · 11/01/2023 11:50

The lying can be part of ADHD, and also typical of some teens. Have a read around Magical Thinking as it can mean a delayed maturity around lying in those with ADHD.

This all sounds very like I was as a teen, risky behaviour, desperately wanting to be liked, emotionally young. I suspect ADHD for me, since DS has it I've connected up all the dots for me. Lots of mental health/emotional issues over the years but I'm stable and okay now. Eventually!

The main thing to focus on is maintaining an emotional connection with your DD. That doesn't mean being soft on her, definitely keep firm boundaries on behaviour, but take time to do activities with her on a regular basis. Sounds like you're doing okay though!

Zola1 · 11/01/2023 12:12

Sorry another point thay came to me... you sound like a lovely mum and your DD sounds lovely too.
I would really really encourage her to keep talking and having open conversations...this doesn't mean endorsing negative choices and I think consequences need to be in place, especially not being given any money, expected to check in regularly while out with friends or she gets grounded etc.
I would really want to focus on making sure she knows how to recognise a situation that's escalating..if someone is too drunk, if someone is reacting badly to alcohol or a drug, and reassure her that she can ring you/her dad and you will come and help before any consequences etc and you'd be glad she called rather than trying to manage herself.
I've seen some situations escalate really unnecessarily because kids have been too scared to ring their parents to ask for help or advice

MistletoeandBaileys · 11/01/2023 12:13

It’s really hard OP but you sound like you are doing a brilliant job. Maybe the time away from the group and her phone will give her a chance to reflect on her behaviour.

14 is a crap age. I don’t know what it is about it but 14 is just a disaster of an age. Does she have any older siblings or cousins she is close to who might be willing to sit and chat with her? Sometimes you don’t want to hear it from parents but coming from someone around the same age it can have a different impact.

She doesn’t seem like a bad kid at all. Just one that’s easily led which would worry anyone. She has a vulnerability about her really with how she doesn’t really hide the vapes and alcohol. I would be worried about the other kids taking advantage of her naivety and getting her in to trouble with school or the authorities or worse.

Could a chat with the school help?

TheLastDreamOfTheOak · 11/01/2023 12:29

I could have written your post OP about DD, 15, except she is as yet undiagnosed for what I strongly suspect is inattentive ADD.
Unfortunately in our case her risky behaviour meant she out herself in a very dangerous situation a year ago and ended up being assaulted. Subsequently she has made some suicide attempts. It's been a pretty rough year and we have been batted about by CAMHs who have been no help. She seems fairly stable now but still smoking, drinking when she can and desperate to be let out with the friends she has made of who are not people that make, or help her make, good choices.

She was recently found with weed in our house, and I've picked her up more than once drunk or high.

We had several conversations about ill effects to her health, future etc. she seemed to understand then the next week would go out, lie, and do the same things again until I finally lost it with her (two days before my wedding when she knew she needed to be on her best behaviour) when I found her drunk at home after I'd been out for a few hours picking up our other kids.

I am constantly being nagged to let her out, told she is depressed as I won't let her wander the streets with her friends etc etc. I do let her go out but only to do something specific such as go to the cinema or lunch-I just won't have he wandering about doing god knows what. She says she feels like she is in prison.

We have had to remove all booze from the house. I've kind of accepted the vaping as there is no way I can stop it. They are so freely available that it's inevitable in our case.

She makes all the right noises about improving, and wanting another chance and knowing she has made mistakes. But I can't and don't believe her anymore sadly.

I am sticking to the rules I have in place although it's hard to be told you are making your child suicidal if you don't let them out. And I've accepted we aren't going to have a great relationship for a while until she hopefully grows up a bit.
I'm still seeking diagnosis for her and encouraging her to attend counselling for all her issues but she won't engage with it currently.

Other than that I don't know what to do at all.

RingingAgain · 11/01/2023 13:02

Tough, tough, tough OP.
One thing, and I say this as someone who is no stranger to occasionally losing the plot with one of my dc, you need to CALM DOWN.
Apologies for caps but please take a big massive step back from all this.

Your dd is 14 in the midst of puberty and has ADHD, she is doing the best she can, I imagine but she has it harder than most.

Vaping, smoking, WTH, that's no capital crime, surely. It's not great but no need to lose sleep over it. Teenagers will be teenagers, some more so than others, some earlier, some later and some teenage angels lose the plot when they move out and cause their parents grief no end.

Try and get some perspective. I am no expert but does the medication need to be given time or reviewed? Once the right treatment is found, she will calm down.

What other hobbies has she got? Could you encourage a new interest, something exciting and adventurous? Your dd sounds fab by the way, perhaps you could get her some CBT therapy to boost her confidence and teach her coping methods?

Most importantly your dd is. NOT destined to fail in life but you need to CALM DOWN. That's the most important thing. Keep calm, be supportive, do not go apeshit at her she can't help it mostly, try and enable her, DO NOT alienate her by shouting and punishing, do support her.

Sending you both love.

LittleAnonymouse · 11/01/2023 13:10

You make some really good points, and there's some great advice Thank you.

Zola1 She explained that her and her friends have been mixing the spirits with orange juice and drinking them (one was still half full) on the way home from school. Odd thing to do considering she then comes home or goes to an after-school activity! I actually suggested using the ADHD medication as an excuse why she can't drink, we did talk about the dangers of drinking last night but I've just watched a video on the Family Lives website and I think I need to talk to her about the whole affecting judgment/being taken advantage of/antisocial behaviour angle a bit more. You've helped me put the vaping thing into perspective a bit more, thank you. I've spoken to her quite often about calling me/DH no questions asked (well, none immediately!) if she finds herself or a friend in need of help due to drinking or taking drugs, but I will reiterate it. Really great points about the underwear pics, I'll definitely use those.

PragmaticWench I've never heard of Magical Thinking, will definitely read up on it. You're right - we do need to keep that communication and emotional connection open. She actually came over to me last night and gave me a big hug and just said "thankyou" after our talk, so I'm hoping that it meant that I'm getting through to her.

MistletoeandBaileys you're right, it's seemingly a nightmare age! She doesn't have siblings but does have older female cousins, I may give one of them a ring. I'm really worried about her being taken advantage of.

OP posts:
LittleAnonymouse · 11/01/2023 13:15

RingingAgain I'm definitely calmer than I was :) She is due for a medication review but when I called for an appointment they said there weren't any available for the foreseeable future and they would call me when there was,🙄I'm going to call again and asked they call me with any cancellations.

Oh god TheLastDreamOfTheOak that must be awful for you, I really do sympathise. The lack of support for you people's mental health in this country is criminal.

OP posts:
Haus1234 · 11/01/2023 13:25

I’m sorry you are dealing with this OP. I don’t have any particular wise words but I noticed your DD wanted to play hockey but there isn’t a school team available - have you looked into local teams which might have junior sections? It might not be feasible but if there is one then she might meet some nicer friends that way!

Haus1234 · 11/01/2023 13:26

*local hockey clubs (rather than teams) that should say!

LittleAnonymouse · 11/01/2023 13:49

I hadn't Haus1234 - I will have a scout around for one.

OP posts:
Reclining · 11/01/2023 13:50

Is she definitely actually attending the after school clubs?

Reclining · 11/01/2023 13:58

I'll join those saying it sounds familiar. For me the relationship with my mum (which sounds smiliar, but perhaps slightly less open than yours) was what always pulled me out of it eventually - ie what made me eventually come home from the party, albeit after a day or two, with my tail between my legs. My friend with the authoritarian parents would end up sofa surfing and being out sometimes for weeks on end.

LittleAnonymouse · 11/01/2023 14:06

Yes definitely Reclining, I take her to them and stay (due to their location and distance).

OP posts:
MrsLemons · 11/01/2023 14:23

Sounds similar to my 13DD. Waiting assessment for Autism. We have not got to the stage of alcohol or drugs and sex, but vaping and awful behaviour is definitely there. And she doesn't go to school. I've tried everything and she has so much support. As a previous poster said, I feel like she is trying to fit in as this all came around once the got into the popular group.

I honestly feel for you cause this is horrendous. I feel she finds ways to just be awful towards me. I hope we both find a way out of this soon!