Authoritarian father making things worse

[sunshine05]

I'm at my wits end. My 13 year old son is constantly butting heads with my husband. My husbands default is authoritarian parenting- he's overly strict, shouty, constantly threatening if my son is rude or talks back or doesn't do what he's told. I've tried so many times to tell him to do authoritative- I've given him information but as soon as he gets angry it all goes out the window.

I'm in tears again tonight as my son has basically pushed back as soon as he saw his dad cranking up the pushiness and ordering him to do stuff. My son is a good person, his behaviour at school is excellent but I can see the way my husband is, is taking its toll on him.

Its causing huge arguements between us as he thinks I'm permissive and soft. I'm not I just want to parent firmly but with love. Without threats and anger and arguements. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of times when I lose my rag but at least I'm trying. We also have 2 other boys - 11 and 8 but they have never been as much of a challenge.

My hubby is a typical first born perfectionist and has such high expectations of everyone. I just don't know how else to get it through his skull that his style of parenting isn't working. And worse than that it's affecting his relationship with the eldest. I also know authoritarian parenting causes low self esteem and anger in kids and I can see that in my son. It just all makes me so so sad and frustrated.

and just to add- my husband is in no way abusive to the kids. They love him and enjoy spending time with him but he struggles with the whole discipline side of things...

I've no advice sorry but watching with interest as my husband is a bit like this (although not so much as yours) so hopefully someone will be along with some useful advice soon!

It's hard though because I feel like my DH thinks I'm too soft on the kids sometimes and he wonders why I don't just shout at them. In reality if I try and shout it doesn't work. And also one of the kids has quietly told me that they are scared of daddy sometimes which makes me so sad. I'm not sure whether to have a quiet word with him and tell him this as it will damage his relationship with them in the future.

What kind of things happen? What sort of stuff does he say to your son?

I think your sense of loyalty to your husband is completely misplaced. He’s just a plain old bully. He prioritizes obedience to him over any relationship with his children.

He couldn’t do any different if he actively wanted to to trash his relationship with his children. And that’s what he will do.

There is no Point trying to get men like that to see sense, but you know that already. Anyone who has children afraid of their temper is complete failure as a parent.

TheThinWhiteDutchess Yes that's exactly why I telll my husband that he has to stop. I'm starting to see his relationship with the eldest become strained. (he's 13) so I'd say definitely have a word (in a constructive way) as I'm now at the point where I don't know what to do. I'm going to see if there's any counsellors in the area but hubby thinks its the eldest with the problem but I swear if he stopped being so authoritarian then the 13 year old wouldn't act out so much.

TheOtherBoleynGirls it's more in response to disrespect or talking back. Instead of remaining calm (god I know it's hard, I get SO angry if they're disrespectful) he just gets angry and shouts 'don't you dare talk back like that to me' etc. Go to your room. Which always escalates the situation with the head-strong 13 year old. So its' not nasty name calling or put downs etc, its just him shouting when he's disrespected. But I just want him to stay CALM. It's so so frustrating and it stresses me out so much. The house just feels 'shouty' and I grew up in such a calm household. I think his family life was similar as they're a bit firey.

What is it about being “disrespected” that is so triggering for him (both of you?)

All it dies is give your child a weapon to instantly cause his father to have a tantrum (ie behave like a child and therefore be unworthy of respect) so completely self-defeating.

People often have a very black/white view of this, lots of LTB etc.
IME the situation is complex.

Many older men grew up with very authoritarian parents and possibly didn’t have great models. It’s correct to point out that it’s the threat to their position as head of the family etc that makes them angry and they lash out, but it takes a strong character to acknowledge this actual weakness.

Whatever the reasons though, it can be difficult to live with, especially when the teens themselves become more challenging and are pushing boundaries, as is their privilege.

I struggled with this with my older ds when he was around the same age. V bright, v ‘good’, I did worry that my husband was effectively bullying him into submission. It’s a challenging time and a balance. Both dc loved their dad and in many ways benefitted from being his dc. He also of course had many good points as well as bad, as do we all, and effectively I found myself weighing up whether staying with him or leaving was better for the dc.

Personally I decided dh should stay. I risked his wrath and always sided with ds when I thought it fair (there was NEVER any possibility of physical violence). Dh ultimately I think trusted me, and although he didn’t like it we worked through things.
I knew ds would have been devastated to see his df leave so I saw my role to broker peace.

Ds is now just 19. He’s at uni and they have a great relationship. He often tells his dad how much he loves, and more importantly respects him, mainly due to the man he has become despite his largely shit upbringing.

this is a really long response but I hope it’s of some use. Only you can decide whether you have enough in that man to work with.

Is it so bad for your son to realise that he should not be rude to his parents?
Sounds like your husband doesn't threaten him or insults him,but get angry at being disrespected.doesnt seem that bad.

I could have written this myself. Exactly same situation here with butting heads and authoritarian style of parenting not paying dividends and just watching DH and DS (16) relationship get worse and worse. I am also too soft apparently. Things have been awful over the summer for us and I finally got some sessions online with an ADHD coach (my son has it) but i think any kind of family therapy would be beneficial. I had a session, then my DH, then my son. There will be more to come. I'm not sure what she said to DH (other than "you need to care less"!) but he has backed down from all the constant over parenting and pecking and just been "nice" to DS again, the immediate change in their relationship and the home vibe has been amazing. DS has responded so well to it and is far less moody, not hiding away in his room all the time, more reasonable, he has even stopped smoking and vaping which he says he was doing partly due to home stress. So if you can convince him to, maybe this approach would help. DH hearing it from a professional seems to have made all the difference.
I also think the advice from Toomuch999 is excellent.

See if DH would agree to family counselling with you and DS. It sounds like all three of you need to find a new rhythm before you all push each other away.

Parenting teens is more like being a coach than a parent of little dc. You are trying to scaffold them into making their own decisions about the right or wrong thing to do (not talk back versus stand up for yourself). Coaches are the boss, BUT the best ones encourage the right behaviour and use socratic questions to help dc understand what path to choose. They have rules and consequences that have been discussed and agreed to by all etc etc. Do you think DH would respond to a conversation about parenting like that?

Toomuch999 thanks for your reply! I'm glad things worked out for you. I find myself in the same position as the peacekeeper but I don't think it's fair that I have to be like this all the time. Additionally, the stress I feel on a weekly basis seems (to me at least) unfair. I grew up in a peaceful household- if there was any arguements between my parents I either never saw it or they were short lived. Very little shouting at us kids unless we'd done something really awful. I guess I feel resentment that things are the way they are. But thank you, it's good to hear someone who has been through it and understands without making assumptions and telling me its abuse and ltb etc! 🙄

Blewitt sorry to hear you're going through it too, although it sounds like the therapy sessions have really helped which is great!
Yes I know no matter what I say DH will not listen, so a professional is definitely the way to go. Unforunately with costs going up etc he'll probably say no to a costly session or two, so I'll need to find some free resources if I can. This is exactly it, I see DS's moodiness and him retreating due to DH being too harsh and I worry, especially at a sensitive time like this when we want him to stay open with us (at least as much as the average teenager will be) so that we remain close and can help him as he gets older. He is still open with me at least, but he gets so angry with DH.

SeaToSki yes what you describe is exactly what I've been trying to tell DH about. I've even highlighted stuff in the past for him to read, printed it out, given it to him. He reads it....then nothing happens, he doesn't change. He won't listen to anything that comes from me. Or he'll pretend to but doesn't take it on board or implement it. So EFFING frustrating

I am in the same boat.

my husband shouts a lot at my 13 year old alot mostly over small shit, but if I do not back him up he then gets really cross with me.

i do not want to live in a shouty household

unfortunately your son will
only remeber his dad shouting so their relationship won't be great!

you have my sympathies x

My Dad was like this. I wasn't even able to choose my own GSCEs, nothing I did was right. By 16 I was in hospital following an overdose. The pressure was unbelievable.

I think a lot of people will have trouble breaking away from how they were parented themselves. It's likely the only way he knows how to parent. To change it needs to be a conscious choice to not act like that.

If it's beginning to affect your boys' mental well-being then I'm afraid you're going to have to do whatever it takes to nip it in the bud. Teenage years are hard anyway without a turbulent home life!

@sunshine05 re-reading your posts it seems there is still much love between your ds and his df which is worth fighting for, for them both but mainly your son.

you’re absolutely correct - it’s not fair that you have to keep the peace, but if not you then who?
It may be the most important part of your parenting role you’ll ever have, but if it means you end up with a son who can love his father despite his (many and difficult) faults, and who grows up with compassion and self confidence because you had his back, then I’d say it’s worth it.

You decided (as did I) to have children with this man so you bear some responsibility for how that works out, but if you decide he should stay, your dh is a very lucky man.

My DH can be a bit like this (although maybe not as much as yours). Things that helped us-

• Talking about parenting and how to approach things ahead of time. So agreeing together what you're happy with (in terms of going out and coming home, doing homework in a set slot, chores etc) ahead of time and without your child there, so that you can work out your disagreements between you first. IME parents with a more authoritarian approach tend to really hate being undermined in front of their child and so dig in even more- obviously lots one could say about this but to the extent you can avoid the problem by agreeing things ahead, it's worth doing. And at some point, talk through things that might never happen- eg what if you find DC with vapes/fags/drink/drugs- it's a really good idea to talk these things through together in the abstract so you have some idea where you're each coming from.
• Recognising that we both wanted the same outcome- healthy and happy children making the most of life. Useful to remember this for both of you when you are at loggerheads about the best approach.
• [Whispers it] Trying to remember that my much gentler parenting wasn't faultless either- I'm too soft and too liable to let things go and cover for DC when they get things wrong (eg running up to school with forgotten kit, tidying a room DC should have done themselves etc). While I'm completely with you on the negative effects of authoritarian parenting, going too far the other way isn't great either, and the urge to protect children from all negative outcomes does them no favours (no idea if this applies to you at all but it is something I have had to work on in myself).
• Trying to talk constructively to DH (not in front of DC) about what seems to work, eg "I thought you handled X really well- DC always seems to pay more attention when he's had his say first" or whatever. Positive reinforcement, like with toddlers 😂 You can also talk to him about the benefits of letting DC experience the consequences of their actions rather than being angry with them, and the importance of letting them develop internal motivation, which they won't do if they only ever do things to avoid being shouted at.
• This might sound silly but I found it made a really big difference to keep mentioning all DC's good qualities. Not a big thing, just in conversation with DH I'd randomly throw in "didn't DC do brilliantly in the play last year?" or "Was just tidying some papers and came across Dc's old report- I'd forgotten how much she's improved in French" or just a nice anecdote about the day and some small bit of good behaviour. For us, DH was out of the house a lot of the time and not seeing this sort of day to day stuff. It's helpful as a way to remind them that you have really wonderful DC who occasionally need a steer, rather than problem DC who only ever cause issues.

Having two parents with different styles can actually work well, if you work together- the chances are that neither of you is doing it perfectly and so you can balance each other out. The big problems come (or they did for us) when you stop working together and get into a bit of a spiral- DH would be angry and strict so I'd be extra nice to compensate, which he saw as too soft so would be extra strict to compensate for that, so I'd be extra nice to compensate for that...and so on until we were basically being an ogre and a wet blanket. Definitely one to avoid.

Would your DH read a parenting book? There are a few good ones about teens ("How to Talk So teens Will listen" and "Get Out of My Life but First Take Me and Alex Into Town" are good and make a good case for non-authoritarian parenting without advocating being a pushover). Alternatively a book on teenage brain development might be helpful, if he's someone who likes to understand the reasons behind things (I like "Inventing Ourselves" by Prof Sarah Jayne Blakemore).

My kids are older teens now and something that works well now is openly acknowledging our different parenting styles with them when negotiating what we expect from them. To be honest, they know we don't have identical parenting styles, so acknowledging it makes sense. Eg, DS asked recently to go to a gig on a school night and DH responded, "well, you know I tend to say no to this sort of thing and your mother tends to say yes, so explain to us which one of us is right this time", in response to which DS came up with a full plan to get there and back safely and in good time, when he was going to do his homework etc, and everyone ended up happy. That might not work so well with younger teens though- depends on the child maybe.

You sound like a great mum and you have my sympathy- I can remember how tough and frustrating it was trying really hard to steer a delicate course with a teenager and then have DH come storming in shouting his head off. And all of the above only applies if your DH is a nice chap just finding it hard to get it right with DC in the light of his own upbringing, rather than a bully.

Sorry, what an epic!

Thanks so much for your reply GoldenOlden Some really useful tips there! I don't think DH will read any books- he rolls his eyes when I do and when I read stuff out. It's so frustrating.'

Prime example tonight: I overhear him in the kitchen with DS- DS is annoyed as we won't be watching any tv series whilst the grandparents are here (DH's parents - live overseas, haven't seen them in 3 years) Of course DS is annoyed- it's part of his 'treat' routine and 2 weeks is a long time. DH comes in here all grumpy saying DS is moaning and he told DS "I haven 't seen MY parents for 3 years and you're upset over not watching your tv series, I won't even entertain this conversation" I think DH thought I'd agree with him. Yes DS is being egocentric- that's what teens do. But I think DH could have handled it better. Said something like 'I'm sorry youre annoyed you can't watch your series but I'm sure you can appreciate we haven't seen my parents for 3 years etc.

His approach is just so black and white and rigid. I told DH I had hoped we were trying to see things from the kids point of view more and take their feelings into account and told him exactly what he could have said and he just went off in a strop.

I can appreciate he probably didn't like me telling him how I think he should have handled it but he won't know if I don't tell him!

The problem I think here is that DH just won't listen - he can't see my point of view, he can't understand the kids or empathise. It's a very hard position for me to try and get him to move from....

Wait, what? Why can’t DS watch his TV show?

And that's a good idea about mentioning DS's good qualities. DH doesn't focus on anything positive so it would be good for him to remember all the good stuff instead of focusing on the negative

...and I could be give constructive feedback to DH if he ever bloody let the kids speak first 🙄. sigh....

WhatsAVideo well his family are massively into cards/games. They love to play with the grandkids (my family are so different 😂) so it's not that he can't watch tv its just that the tv series DS watches he always watches with DH so there just won't be the time do to that