At wits end with 12 yo DD

[Stevie77]

Almost 13…

Completely disrespects every house rule and boundary we set and frankly, I’m done with her.

Major issue is phone use. We have tried everything! She has hacked Apple’s Screen Time and has found a way to get around it and spend hours on TikTok so we keep going in circle applying it/her hacking it on and on. We’ve tried to physically take the phone off her but she either finds it, or her new trick - runs and hides in the toilet straight after school. Today it was for a whole hour! We’ve tried locking in a cash box, she’s taken the keys. Etc etc 🙄 The thing is, she’s allowed to use her phone if she finished her school work first, so it’s not the case she’s not allowed it at all.

She’s a clever girl and has worked hard to get into a selective Grammar, but she does nothing other than complain about the small amount of homework they get and leaves it until the very last minute to do to a poor level. She did next to no revision for her end of Yr 7 exams then had a huge cry about being placed in the lowest set in Maths. It’s like she doesn’t learn from experience🤷🏻‍♀️

she’s awful to DS 8 and often starts physical fights with him/takes out her frustration on him. When she gets angry with either of us she can behave aggressively and be threatening. She’s pushed us a few times. I would never have dared behave like that with my parents!

she disrespects our requests around snacking on junk and eating other people’s treats, when special alternatives have been bought for her.

I’m horrible, she hates me yada yada so it’s now a game of good cop - bad cop between my husband (her dad) and I where everything I say, ask or do is the worst. She never wants to do anything with either of us, so no opportunities to spend some nice time together away from the never-ending arguments.

Where do we go from here? Counselling? How do I find one that specialises in teens? School pastoral care? Social services? GP (and ask what)?

Some of the comments here are ridiculous

12 year olds use phones now to contsct friends and arrange their social lives of course she will need one

Howevwr. Op you need to just take real control. There are lots of apps and programmes that control.phones just find the right one.

She is probably wanting to unwind before school work....if she is at a harsh grammar

If she has to cram for exams then surely she should not get the top sets anyway

Sounds like she is struggling with her hard school day to me

You can turn off the ability to be able to download & install apps with Screentime on
Settings> family> your child's name>screentime> content and privacy restrictions> installing apps> not allowed.

Is screentime set up on your phone and is she part of your family or did you just set it up from hers?

It's not ridiculous to take away a childs phone (adhd or no adhd) when they're behaving like this. I did a 'reset' with my son (who has adhd) at that age when he was obsessed with his PlayStation. If you suspect adhd, then boundaries are 10x more important (and whilst my ds has trouble regulating his emotions he has never shoved me because he knows there would be consequences).

@EmmatheStageRat the op's child is not neurodiversre. So why should people give advice aimed at neurodiverse children?

As pp have suggested she can live without a phone.
Abusive behaviour towards you or her brother needs to be stopped immediately and absolutely not tolerated.

I think at this age they are trying to push all the boundaries and their family becomes less important to them and their friends are their world. They take everything they see on the internet as gospel truth and of course any rules that they don’t agree with will be argued and pushed against. Add hormones into the mix and you have teenage tantrum hell!

Talk to her one on one, lay down the rules and the consequences. Reward good behaviour with treats like hot chocolate out and lots of praise. Stand firm with the rules and make sure your dh is on board so you are a united front.

It is also worth taking note of pp suggestion of adhd so maybe a gp visit? It’s not my area of expertise at all so wouldn’t know how to advise.

Just a note on TikTok - its literally designed to give you constant quick fire dopamine hits to get you addicted to it, and anything thats literally designed to be addictive... well its your decision as a parent, but i would be even more wary of a potentially ADHD child using it as it would then be a harder battle for them to stop using it, however good it feels when they are getting a hit. I am not anti phone in the slightest, being of the age where teenagers first really utilised the internet for socialising, but having seen tiktok and read a lot of discussion online from people talking about themselves and their kids, i wouldnt let a child use it. In 30 years we will be shocked at easily we let companies manipulate our brain activity for them to make money, and how obvious it was so early that it would be disastrous for child brain development.

Have the school alerted you to any potential issues? Have they mentioned autism or ADHD?

How did it get to the point where she is hitting you all and still getting hold of that phone? The first time she downloaded TikTok again without permission you should have gotten rid of the smartphone for good. This is escalating because you aren't putting down sufficient boundaries.

What does telling her off look like to you? Teenagers will not run away if they are disciplined and held accountable for unacceptable behaviour. They will however treat you with contempt and disrespect if they know they can get away with it.
She's getting away with it.

Sorry meant to say pushing you not hitting you. You do mean physically pushing? Or do you mean pushing your limits?

I have been through this (twice) and they do get much better at 13/14. Personally I wouldn’t remove the phone, as she will hate you and life will be considerably harder.

I would sit her down when she’s calm, and talk to her about how she wants to manage her time. Let her decide on a timetable of when she does school work, phone time, sport etc so that she feels in charge of her time. I’d also discuss what behaviour is not acceptable and what the consequences are for bad behaviour. Then 100% follow through if she messes up.

Phone doesn’t need to be a smart phone, my daughters friends have an old one that texts that’s it and most only allowed WhatsApp if they do have a smart phone.

worrying around the screen time we have said she can have 10 mins a day and that’s it - how did your daughter get around it? You can also restrict it on the actual TikTok app as well I think? Remember the apps are designed for fun so trigger the hormones and that’s what causes addiction- and in turn triggers the behaviour. It’s a cycle you need to help her break - it’s not easy though - how will you distract her, knowing she going to probably kick off - and it will be horrible but only for a few days. Try and work with her rather than against her.

You do need to check nothing else is going on at school , is she feeling isolated or lonely?

OP You mentioned her younger brother in passing, but I think his needs are a bigger issue than the phone. How are you protecting him? Is he treading on eggshells around his sister? Is his stuff getting ransacked by her? Is he physically scared of her? Does he feel you protect him or that you could but choose not to, as his sister will kick off?

Install some other parental control software on her phone. Qustodio can be controlled remotely from your own phone and computer.

@ShortOfShorts just to quickly respond to this because there are some wild inferences going on this thread - the answer to all of this is a firm no!

She’s not abusive to anyone, she’s just a teenager who sometimes has a teenage tantrum (god knows I had plenty of them in my day! Man, I used to say awful things to my mum) and is not always very nice to her little brother, and sometimes he’s not very nice to her. You know, like siblings are sometimes. My sister and I used to fight like cat and dog.

It's not normal for teenagers to push their parents.

The reason she acts like this is down to you. You aren't parenting her and that's why she behaves so defiantly.

I completely agree with this.

I urge people and their dc to watch The Social Dilemma

www.netflix.com/gb/title/81254224.

Everything we do using social media is designed to engage more with it, it's addictive. You can see how What's App has changed since Facebook / Meta obtained the app.

We all know our attention span has diminished over the last 10 years. We have no idea how this impacts children's /teens' developing brains. Any quick content snacking is addictive and erodes people's ability to concentrate for more than a couple f=of minutes.

That’s good to know, I couldn’t tell from your OP.

FWIW, though, my DC don’t hit each other and very rarely shout at each other, the most I hear is a bit of bickering which ends quickly. We have a hard line about taking themselves off to their room to calm down and not taking their moods out on their sibling. So it didn’t sound usual to me.

Sorry, meant to add that of course every family’s normal is different and what works for some DC doesn’t for others.

Does she have hobbies OP? What did she enjoy in primary school?

The best way to keep teens away from phones/vaping/alcohol/out of trouble/away from social media toxicity in my experience is lots of sport or music or drama etc. They need to have something social that is good for them that they enjoy and meet like minded kids. Even the most academic ones, they need to have a balance with something that is good for their minds/bodies etc.

My kids are at superselectives and Year 8 they were all a bit bored and it was the hobbies which kept them out of trouble. By Year 9 they had realised how to avoid the kids who don’t want to work etc. and live on social media. There are kids like this in all schools.
It is a difficult age and they are going through so many changes hormonally and socially. Best to find a way to bond with her so she opens up to you first and tells you how she feels. My teen tells me about all the stuff the other kids get up to (obviously I don’t tell their parents) and seeks my advice on what to do etc. Eg we have told them that if they start wanting to try alcohol that they should tell us and practise at home first and we won’t judge.

Regarding the maths, did you try and sit down with her and help her structure revision? Often bright kids don’t know how to work initially. Don’t know how to make vocab lists, good notes etc and focus on the difficult parts.

I am pretty anti-phones generally for children - HOWEVER - that is how kids communicate - so I think I would try to find a way to allow her to be in touch with friends as otherwise she will be furious and may end up lying/ getting a second phone.

The reality is you want them to fit in/ have friends - there are apps like Qustudio? Which control phone use.

How about picking a calm moment and talking it all through with her?

I have ADHD and at 12 was a total mess, never did homework/ was always messy and forgot what I needed for school.

It's a huge amount of pressure to be good all day at school - walk in the door and you are asking her to do school work before she unwinds by staring at her phone (as we all do ??) how about a deal where she has 20 mins tik tok or whatever (I agree try to leave that until older) - and then she can relax with tv/ reading

How has what’s app changed. Genuinely interested.
Personally I’ve used tik tok a fair bit. Some it isn’t idea but putting the moderation parental setting on helps a bit. I spent hours on it researching what would come up and it was nothing that bad.
My 13 year old DD is crazy about it because she loves dance and the moves but we limit the use on her phone via the parental settings so she doesn’t just stay on it and lose track of time.
Don’t see what the huge issue is as long as you put limits in place.
You Tube is 10x worse and so many parents let their kids- even young kids, freely scroll through that watching god knows what.

If she has an iPhone and you have an iPhone you can turn her phone off remotely through screen time .

Removing in real life caused such aggression we had to call police but after getting it from her we hid it for a month so she knew we were serious

Now we turn it off at 10 and on again at 7 no problem