At wits end with 12 yo DD

[Stevie77]

Almost 13…

Completely disrespects every house rule and boundary we set and frankly, I’m done with her.

Major issue is phone use. We have tried everything! She has hacked Apple’s Screen Time and has found a way to get around it and spend hours on TikTok so we keep going in circle applying it/her hacking it on and on. We’ve tried to physically take the phone off her but she either finds it, or her new trick - runs and hides in the toilet straight after school. Today it was for a whole hour! We’ve tried locking in a cash box, she’s taken the keys. Etc etc 🙄 The thing is, she’s allowed to use her phone if she finished her school work first, so it’s not the case she’s not allowed it at all.

She’s a clever girl and has worked hard to get into a selective Grammar, but she does nothing other than complain about the small amount of homework they get and leaves it until the very last minute to do to a poor level. She did next to no revision for her end of Yr 7 exams then had a huge cry about being placed in the lowest set in Maths. It’s like she doesn’t learn from experience🤷🏻‍♀️

she’s awful to DS 8 and often starts physical fights with him/takes out her frustration on him. When she gets angry with either of us she can behave aggressively and be threatening. She’s pushed us a few times. I would never have dared behave like that with my parents!

she disrespects our requests around snacking on junk and eating other people’s treats, when special alternatives have been bought for her.

I’m horrible, she hates me yada yada so it’s now a game of good cop - bad cop between my husband (her dad) and I where everything I say, ask or do is the worst. She never wants to do anything with either of us, so no opportunities to spend some nice time together away from the never-ending arguments.

Where do we go from here? Counselling? How do I find one that specialises in teens? School pastoral care? Social services? GP (and ask what)?

Do you give it back to her for school ? Does she need it ? Otherwise take it to friends or family
I once took my ds xbox to work for a week as punishment , never had to do it again though

I wouldn't give her the phone AT ALL. Not even to take to school with her either. She will be fine, just like kids 20 years ago were fine getting to school with no phone. When she behaves, give it her back, but delete Snapchat and tiktok...they're the devil's work imo. My DD is nearly 16 and I won't let her have either app and I periodically check her phone to make sure she's not sneakily put it back on.

Thank you everyone, I am here reading your replies.

Looks like we’ll have to take a much stricter stance wrt the phone. I like hiding it in the boot liner, but have found a very good alternative for now.

Removing the apps once installed is fine, but the way Apple phones are you can re-install apps that were previously downloaded even if that option is blocked via Screen Time. Helpful.

Google family link doesn’t work on iPhones. Tried it and had to delete when they emailed me to say that any relevant function doesn’t apply to Apple phones. Also, she’s 13 in 3 weeks so…

To the person who asked how she hacked Screen Time - Google it! There are ways to circumvent it by restarting the phone etc. Clearly only criminal minds think of this option 😏

ADHD - I’m not poo-pooing it. Could be, I suppose. She is much more pleasant when is apart from the device for a period and doesn’t seem to struggle with the things she struggles with when the phone takes all her attention.

it’s really hard to navigate these parental waters and advice is very contradictory - be strict! Set boundaries! Be tough! - and - If you’re strict your teen will rebel! Will run away! It’s hard to know what to do sometimes.

I realise it's easy to say as not dealing with same issues and don't have Snapchat or tiktok etc (yet!)..... but i wouldn't take my 12 year olds phone. He'd be quite left out socially if he couldn't reply to messages.

As it happens he does things the other way round. Needs an hour after school of being left to himself, phone, TV whatever and snack before he can face homework.

I would be throwing myself into finding some common ground or way of being together away from the conflict. Go for a Starbucks or bubble tea or whatever the 12 year old thing is in her world. Or if you have spare money to treat her to something small maybe a short shopping trip. Watch some of the utter crap 12 years olds like watching together. I'd focus effort on building the relationship.

Personally I wouldn't sweat the school results/homework. Let her experience some consequences, detention or whatever, if homework isn't done.

My daughter has had to do 2 weeks straight without her phone on 2 separate occasions.

I'd remove the iPhone and buy an unlocked refurbished android. Then you can completely control that via Google family link. It is very effective. My dd has 3hr daily screen time limit. Also no social media except WhatsApp.
I also love the fact I can completely control her phone using my phone.

Definitely time for you to take back control here. You just cannot allow her to rule the roost

How about some natural consequences for most things and some no negotiables for others? You need to bring down the level of conflict.
e.g. Homework not done = get into trouble at school.
Taking snacks = no snacks left until the next shop

Things like the phone. If she is so attached that it causes this many issues, take it away full stop. You could tell her that you can try again if she starts following basic house rules. If she needs one for calls, get one without internet. Or, you could decide to leave her with the phone, but turn off the wifi at a certain time.

Violence should be zero tolerance. If she pushes or screams at you. Walk away and refuse to engage until she has calmed down. Direct her to her room to calm down.

I would literally be throwing that phone away, let alone taking it away.

I second this. My ADHD/ASC radar was klaxoning while reading the OP’s post.

@Stevie77 , my DD1 is 14 and I could have written your post a couple of years ago. DD is also at a super-selective grammar school and is clearly very bright. But she is also lacking in maturity and her impulse control is extremely poor. My DD has a number of complexities and I won’t bore you with them here but she was recently diagnosed with ADHD and autism. The extreme emotions, the obsessions, the lack of impulse control, the anger, the aggression, the stealing of snacks, the sugar addiction, the lack of respect for boundaries, the lack of empathy, it’s all linked.

Honestly, it’s all screaming ADHD/ASC to me! Bright and capable girls can mask for many years until the demands of school and life become too arduous and then their lives start to fall apart - but no one can understand why.

My DD will ransack my house like a burglar in her obsessive quest to find hidden tech, money and sweets. She will even look in the shoe polish kit or the laundry detergent box! I currently have a few pounds (needed for my DD2’s primary school activities) hidden in a Dobble game and it’s the only place that she has not discovered as yet but I know it’s a matter of time.

You need to put in boundaries OP and stick to them. She will behave herself if you do.

She doesn't need an iPhone at 12. Basic PAYG if she needs a phone at all.

You really do have to pick your battles with some teenagers.

But ultimately you are the adult here and your daughter needs to learn that life isn't about getting everything her own way, equally she needs to learn some respect towards you.
I'd definitely sort out her data especially if you pay the bill.
I'm not glued to my phone all day so am on a £5 package which is 5000 text, 250 minutes and 2G of mobile data maybe something like that would make her realise she has to choose wisely how and what she uses her phone for.

You have made the phone into a battleground, so stop! You have modelled it being a huge priority.. look how many words you used to describe her phone use versus words to describe physical violence.. I have a pretty relaxed attitude to screen time, but zero tolerance on violence.. those are my priorities.
A couple of other thoughts..

• is the high pressure grammar actually the right place for her, or is it making her miserable? If she crammed for the 11+ she may not be coping with the academic reality.
• why not sit down with her and watch some of the TikToks? If it’s hairstyles or recipes, try them out.. do the dances.. laugh at the pranks.. whatever it is it’ll give you insight into her head.

And yes, I do have dc, youngest is almost 16. They’re turning out pretty well.

Children don’t need smartphones. Computer to be used downstairs only, not in a bedroom. She is a child, however much she disagrees.

It sounds like you’re giving the phone back for when she’s at school? As others have said ‘don’t!!’ - take it away properly (take it you your or Dh’s office/ somewhere else!!) & explain she’ll get it back when she behaves better. You can be tough but loving too, they’re not exclusive.

is the high pressure grammar actually the right place for her, or is it making her miserable? If she crammed for the 11+ she may not be coping with the academic reality.

Agree with this, although don't know whether your daughter is struggling with school in some way.
I've know friends DC suffer in a grammer as they were expected to be as bright as bright and unfortunately the work load was to much.
It's better to be happy and managing the work load in a non grammar school than to be unhappy and struggling in a grammar.
Yes I've 2 DC gone through school and my thoughts were they'd get good grades in any school as long as they put the work in.

Me too. It would definitely be taken away and kept somewhere out of the house entirely. She has to learn that her behaviour regarding the phone, and particularly her aggression towards her brother and anyone else in the family, is totally unacceptable.

I’m sorry to be picking up on your responses but I think they highlight the lack of understanding towards children who may be neurodiverse. My DD1 was recently diagnosed with autism and ADHD, at the age of nearly 15. My DD can be aggressive and violent (there are other complexities), but it is most definitely not as a result of my parenting and because she has not been modelled appropriate boundaries. It’s because her brain does not function like that of neurotypical children.

Most children arent neurodiverse though.

All teens need boundaries. It's much more likely that OP needs to lay down the law and stick to it.

I would go against the grain and say don’t take the phone away. It’s just making it into a battle ground and despite what people say about teenagers not needing smart phones, they will be very socially isolated without them. My DD16 only communicates with friends via Snapchat or WhatsApp. DD14 it’s all WhatsApp. DD14 has had some issues with TikTok and did come up with some clever ways to get round the screen time but I’ve wised up and so far the restrictions are working.

Honestly taking away her means of contact with her peers isn’t the answer in my opinion. I don’t know any teenager that doesn’t have a smart phone. She’s not going to suddenly be lovely because you took her phone away. She’ll be more miserable and isolated.

If it’s any help, both my teenagers were absolutely horrible when they were 12. So much so I felt like I couldn’t manage them anymore. They are both much better now.

Take the phone away and do not hide it. Put it in the bin. Stop throwing your hands in the air and being a pair of wusses.

Do not buy any more treats for anyone. You can all live on basic meals for a month. It won't hurt anyone.

Then start a marble jar or some other reward system so DD can earn back the odd treat and earn back a phone. A brick phone that is.

Have DD assessed for ASD and ADHD.
Talk to her teachers about her performance in school.

My DD14 has also recently been diagnosed with ADHD with some autistic traits and I could have written your OP a couple of years ago, word for word.

Oh god I hate phones and totally feel for you op!
Let know how you get on please

I'd take a pint glass, fill it with water and drop the phone in it. Then there would be no need to try and stop her finding it. Zero tolerance policy on aggression is needed. The phone will be replaced when she can show improvement in her behaviour over an extended period

Secondary school teacher here OP.

Definitely talk to her tutor, to ensure you have a joined up approach, and see if you can meet with the schools SENCO. My SENCO has some assessments they can do, without needing to be an Ed Psych, and is so good/sees these things so frequently that they can often make a pretty decent judgement call on whether a full assessment is worthwhile.

ADHD is notoriously under diagnosed in girls and it’s often at the transitions (E.g primary to secondary, KS3 to GCSE) that we see wobbles. Also, private Ed Psych assessments are circa £1,500 around here… That said, if she’s struggling now you need to get the support in place ASAP for her GCSE’s. She might be entitled to adjustments, additional time or movement breaks.

Agree tough love is needed, once other issues are ruled out, but also it’s tricky as at this age their phones are their social lives! You might need to do a hard removal, to reassert the boundary, and then do a phased return. Phone for an hour after dinner and only in the same room as you (with headphones maybe), for example.