Anxious about DS aged 13 going back to school

[Remmy123]

I wrote a few times on here about my 13 year old son and distruptive behaviour at school.

year 7 - disruptive but pretty good grades
year 8 - distruptive, many many detentions - dreadful report

behaviour is: too much chatting, not focusing, not trying at all basically

i got so many phone calls home from the school, a very upset son and I found it so stressful I became v anxious myself. We have been very supportive to my son, we have punished, tried different approaches etc nothing changed.

if this carries on he wil fail his gcse's

i can feel the anxiety rising, quite frankly I am dreading it.

any parents been through the same and can offer any advice?

he has a pc that he loves and I've told him any bad feedback it will be removed from his bedroom for the week (we have not disciplined that extreme before as always thought detentions are the punishment)

thanks so much

stressed mum x

All behaviour is communication

What's he unhappy about at school that is making him behave this way?

If standard behaviour management techniques have not worked (and it absolutely sounds like you have tried really hard) you need to look deeper at what is going on with him

Don't see it as bad behaviour see it as anxiety. School should be working with you to find out what he is anxious about.

Y8 is generally known as a shit year. He might improve in Y9.

too much chatting, not focusing

Did primary school ever raise similar concerns about his focus or attention? How is he at home?

I agree with the PP that there’s an almost 100% certainty that something else is going on. This could be an undiagnosed learning need.

so I do agree with pp that it would be good to try and find out what is behind this attitude. Is he trying to prove something to the other kids? Does he feel the need to be this certain person at school? There are a couple of these in my ds year and I always wonder what’s going on in their heads.

Could you draw up a “contract” together with your ds, agreeing what needs to change this year. List what needs to happen in order for him to earn his privileges at home (computer and other devices), and his pocket money. Make it a written one and You both sign it. Get him talking about what he thinks is expected of him.

Is the behaviour purely chatting and not getting on with his work?

Is he being disruptive as in answering back, distracting class and not allowing teacher to teach?

Because if the former I'm wondering if they've looked at things like dyslexia? Quite often not focussing and doing anything other than focussing is a distraction technique away from people noticing they are struggling.

The thing that stood out from your post is that your ds is also anxious and worried about going back which indicates he isn't happy with how things are panning out either?

Have they put in any type of assessment or support or just punished?

Thanks all for your really helpful replies.

he is not an anxious child - he isn't anxious about going back (that's me) he just goes on about how much he hates it/ doesn't like any of his teachers.

year head and tutor tried to get to bottom of all this but we're at a loss.

Primary school the feedback he was ajways chatty - primary told me he was bright, started school being able to read very well, due to lack of interest he is falling behind. Didn't care his exams were bad.

yes the disruption does prevent teacher from teaching - one example of that he asked if he couid sit at the back of class (he was at the front) teacher said no - instead of taking no fir an answer he went on and on about it.

it's like he doesn't give a shit about anyone else in that classroom, students trying to learn/ teacher trying to teach.

school punishment is : report / detentions/ bad notes home in diary / isolation a few times

he is popular from what I have been told. His outlook on school is so negative

At home he is quite good. I do have to ask several times to brush teeth etc ..

Summer holidays he seems much happier - whereas when he is at school he says it makes him depressed.

This sounds very familiar! My ds recently got a diagnosis of adhd, and whilst this doesn’t excuse his behaviour, it does mean that the school will do more to cater to his needs. Is that something worth looking at?

How is his processing and working memory and general executive functioning?

What happens if you give him a multistep task to do?
Put your shoes away, take your ironing upstairs, put it away and make your bed or lay the table, do drinks for dinner, feed the pet etc.
Can he do all parts quickly without being reminded? Will he do part of them but a while after you've asked him? Will he forget all or not do part of it?
Generally does he remember things well or will he forget quickly?

Does he often get fixated on things like the moving of chairs? Does he have a very strong and concrete idea of right / wrong and perceived injustices?

Maybe school isn't the right environment for him?

Have you considered alternatives? You could look at colleges that do courses from 14.

He does sound a PITA but it also isn't making him happy. Clearly the boundaries and rigid rules of school (even the sit where you're told and not where you're happy) aren't working for him or anyone else.

Is he usually so obsessive about something? It's quite unusual to be that obsessed you don't even care about pissing everyone off to get what you want.

HP you seem to be thinking along the same lines as me!

If he’s constantly answering back with staff that’s not a sign of depression!
how long does he spend on his devices? Rather than limiting them as a punishment, he needs to have time on them limited as a matter of routine. He could be lacking in sleep due to over use, or hyperstimulated by the games he plays on them.

@HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime

if I give him many things to do they won't get done, he will forget or get disctracted with his phone etc

but with things he is interested in they will get done. So:

he researched and built his own pc

Another example - if he has a subscription to something that will charge after a month he will have a reminder to cancel that subscription, so is quite organised in that respect.

he doesn't lose stuff etc but unorganised with school books / packing his school bag

whoeber mentioned the chairs - no he doesn't move chairs around

We have considered adhd and this may be covered under my husbands private health so we are looking in to this.

he gets bored very quickly - may be at a party and after a couple of hours wants to come home
finds school boring
doesn't generally hang out with mates only unless doing a fun thing like Thorpe park etc

he spends a lot of time on his pc / looking at his phone - I know this won't be helping!

if relevant - when he was a toddler he never played with toys / playing super hero's etc

his friends parents say he is the cool kid at school / popular - not sure that is relevant trying to give overall picture

whilst waiting fir a diognosis for anything / if anything what can I do?! I used to give him money for a week of no bad notes or detentions which worked for a month or so before reverting back.

my husband wants to ban all pc time from Monday - Thursday I say no because I need that as an incentive for jim

• if you get all good notes and mp detentions you can have it?

hard to know what to do for the best

appreciate your help

Sounds like he has adhd. I have it and was like this at school.

Your son isnt lazy he just isnt interested in school ...i loathed much of school teaching ...im now a succesful adult !

My mum despaired just like you.

If he is finding school difficult is a change of scene possible ?

I would be wary of setting aims for him that he is not capable of achieving as where does that end....

I would move the pc out of his bedroom and put it in a public space.

tell him he has to earn any pc time and set out the rules for earning it (behaviour, getting homework done, emptying the dishwasher) and make sure you have a robust system for understanding if he has done his homework/been good at school that day

give him a figit toy and practice with him so that everytime he thinks of chatting, he plays with the toy first (and doesnt talk)

get him in front of an educational neuropsycholoist as fast as you can for a full evaluation for learning differences and ADHD

I wouldn't take his not caring attitude at face value, being somewhere all day where you struggle to fit in is really hard. School has become so pressuring . It is good in many ways that many children aren't left to cruise any more but some children just don't fit this model and don't respond to more and more sanctions. I have been in the position of being anxious about phone calls home constantly and you just have to accept their version of events. I think my son has possible adhd but also I worry that we can't just accept some children just need a different approach without seeing it as an issue. But I also sympathise with teachers situation too.

Thanks all - do you think it sounds like adhd and why hasn't any teacher suggested this?

It could be . People often only know what they have come across before , he might not present in the way they think ADHD does. They might not like him and not be willing to consider this. They might not have much sympathy re neurodiversity. They might be frustrated that he seems to choose to behave like this. Any number of reasons. It might not be adhd and the environment just doesn't suit him.

Often SEND can rear its head in Secondary school because at Primary school they have a very set routine with the same teacher and there is less demand on the student to process different information. At Secondary school everything is different. Also puberty often exacerbates any diversities.

Some students with ADHD you can spot a mile off, for those medicated its very easy to see when they havent had it. Others its far more nuanced or they have ADD without the hyperness. Teachers may not have picked up on it as they only see him a few hours a week, he may be well behaved if they have him period 1 but misbehave during period 5 as behaviour is likely to decline throughout the day.

I wouldnt be punishing him for things that are out of his control. I would be putting in strict routines whilst you look for a diagnosis. Look for parenting strategies for children with ADHD as even if he does not get a diagnosis a different way of doing things might help.

As an action plan on return to school I would contact the SENCO with your concerns, ask him to be sat at the back / front of the class a way from distractions, ask which fidget toys are allowed and buy him a small one that he uses in his pocket other wise they become an even bigger distraction. If he struggles retaining information and copying from the board a relatively easy fix is to have key information from powerpoints preprinted so that he can copy directly from under his nose to his book so ask if they can do this too. We do this as standard within our dept, took some organising but makes a huge difference to students with various SEND.

Yes it sounds very much like adhd. I’d have an assessment done as soon as you can.

Thank you very much this is really invaluable advice

Another thing to try, does he go to any afterschool clubs at school? Getting to know the teachers outside of the formal classroom and building a relationship with them will do both sides the world of good.

There are more than a few students with similar behaviour at my school, I make an effort to get to know them several are sports people outside of school so Ill make sure to ask them about any competitions or games theyve had. It makes the world of difference (also relies on the teacher doing their bit). So if your son builds computers Id ask him about that(to the best of my ability as Ive no idea). It matters because it builds the relationship and I'm more approachable, when they come into the classroom they might say to me "Miss, I'm having a bad day today. I've had two detentions already." Ill ask them if they need to be kept moving and if they do Ill make sure they hand out books, scissors etc. If they are really struggling Ill know to give them extra encouragement and double check on them throughout the lesson with a stealthy thumbs up/down to see how they are and put other supports in place. It doesnt always work and after lunch is always a tricky time period for lessons and challenging behaviour.

Unfortunately teachers are given minimal SEND training or occasionally given a theoretic training inset with some handouts thrown their way, my time as a TA before teaching means I have a better understanding. I think all teachers should have to do atleast a year as a TA before fully qualifying.

Cannot agree more with everything HP has said.

My ds has asd and severe problems with executive functioning despite being highly intelligent and there's many similarities to adhd.

My ds wasn't ever disruptive as such but if they had supply teacher who did things differently there was literally no let up in her pointing this out continuously throughout the lessons. Because in his mind she/he was doing it wrong and he was being helpful pointing it out 🫣

His secondary school were brilliant and he had an EHCP so any supply teacher his keyworker was by his side the whole lesson or would take him elsewhere.

Also preprinting the sheets is massively helpful because the looking up and down can cause distractions and the mind to wander.

That or him having a notebook/laptop and he's emailed them to have them open in front of him.

But he's also less likely to be disruptive with his own work and say at the back where he doesn't have people to interact with or turn around and face and have an audience.

Thanks @HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime and @itsgettingweird

he doesn't go to any after school clubs. He is a very good football player, he has gone off football and now does no after school or weekend activities. I've just been playing basketball with him and I mention he could do that at after schoo club and he said no.

He is very good at ball sports but doesn't want to do them.

he gets a train to school and back and tells me he doesn't want to get back home late so that is preventing after school clubs. As well as wanting to get out of school asap. I have suggested I collect him after a club - really hope he does football again.

i did consider a school move - two secondary schools to chose from:

1. the one he is at now (feeder school from primary the whole year group went there) grades as good as private schools BUT he has to get two trains there which bothers him.

2. secondary school 5 min walk from my house. Brand new. Great facilities. Not very good results (will take a look at the gcse results when they come out)

he wants to go to school 2 as it's near home and he thinks it's less strict.

i have considered moving him but equally feel it couid be a big mistake.

thanks all