Unhappy with teens

[TeaWithPaddington]

Hi,

I am feeling extremely unhappy in my life and, quite frankly, it is no way to live. I'm not sure if my problem stems from my childhood or whether it is because my marriage was sexless/lacked love. But, also, both of my teens are causing me issues and I feel like a doormat.

I have an 18 year old son and a 14 year old daughter. I ended my marriage, after 23 years, in 2020 due to us being on different planets and not having any connection (other than the children). I was lonely. Nothing could be changed and, upon entering the menopause years, I became aware of other men and started to realise that I was missing something and that 'something' was quite significant. I was also not attracted to him (age gap) and this led to no intimacy, affection or sex in the relationship for many years. Well over 10! We lived like brother and sister - I guess I'd accepted it but also felt trapped due to lack of family support.

We had no grandparents to help us with the children when they were growing up (all RIP) and no family support at all, really. It was tough as I had to raise the children and hold up my career in healthcare (something I'd worked hard for since being a teen myself). My father and mother divorced when I was 8 and my father disappeared from my life from around 10 as, when I did visit, he'd leave me outside the local pub with a lemonade and a packet of crisps while he went inside with his friends. I got fed up, obviously, and said to my mum that I didn't want to go again. He didn't make any effort to stay in touch and he died when I was 23 (so I heard). My mother was an older mum (40 when she had me) but had been a heavy smoker and developed many health problems so I was looking after her a lot as a young teen. We didn't have much money as she was on social security payments so I never really went anywhere apart from my home town or the next town to visit my grandmother. I remember being left at school when my friends went off to France on a trip. I was bored a lot. I remember my friends parents taking me camping at the Lake District because they felt sorry for me. My mother was difficult as I was growing up. Constantly at the doctors with one 'ailment' after another and she even ended up in a psychiatric hospital when she went crazy when a GP struck her off of his list for being a time waster. Anyway, all of this made me driven in carving out a career. I wanted to lift myself out of this existence and better my prospects. I have done so with a lot of hard work and determination. I was lucky to get free university tuition which I took advantage of. I was desperate to improve my life. I met my husband on my sandwich year out and hadn't really had a boyfriend before. He is over a decade older. Looking back, this was a mistake and I'm now starting to think maybe I was swept off of my feet as he took me places and got me away from my home life with my mother.

Anyway, my eldest child has always been a bit difficult to deal with. Very highly strung as a toddler and I was constantly walking on eggshells. Hardly slept and it was tough in the first few years. He is a bright boy, however, and very switched on. He got mostly 9's in his GCSE's and he has just sat his A-levels. He is, however, lazy with anything else. He gets good grades with no revision. He won't lift a finger to help me at all and wants me to do everything. Leaves the lights on. Leaves the toilet seat up. Goes to bed very late then I can't get him up in the mornings, or he is half asleep all day. He asks for a brew when the kettle is on and has never made me one. Ever. Even when I've asked nicely if I've been tired after work. Won't do anything around the house but I know teens are like this. Not all, I know (I was always helping my mum). What is bothering me is that, for a long time, he is patronising me a lot. He talks down at me like I'm stupid and beneath him: He often calls me stupid and is critical of everything I say - like I'm an idiot. If I say anything interesting or useful he will just reply with a sarcastic'really' like I have just spoken a load of rubbish. I have a 1st class science degree, a Masters and in management in my career. He has also thrown things at me before in temper (he has a bit of an addiction to his Xbox and has had for years) if I challenge him on anything. He really gave me a nasty bruise one day on my left boob after throwing something hard at me in temper. His dad witnessed this (as we were together at the time) and did nothing. He just stood there! The trauma caused me to develop a breast abscess a week later and I ended up in A&E. I was put on antibiotics for a week and it went away (they were going to drain it if it hadn't). I didn't tell my son or husband about this and they still don't know. Im deeply hurt inside over this and other things. My son has conditional offers at a few universities to study civil engineering but he seems to have gone off that idea and now wants to join the armed forces and work in the pilot/aircraft area. He would probably be good at this due to gaming, maths etc. but I can just see him now begging to come home (because he can't stand the discipline). I've always had to do a lot for him. He will not tolerate being told what to do so I know what will happen there!
My son spends most days at his dad's thank goodness (I know that sounds awful but my life was intolerable sometimes).
My daughter, 14, lives with me (100% of the time) and is spending most days in her room. She was always a lovely girl and is now the opposite. She doesn't speak to me - at all. She is also showing signs of looking down her nose at me. Both kids often call me by my first name and lack respect. She is very sullen around me. I offer to take her places but she says no. I rush home from work to do her tea but she spends the entire evening in her room. Never communicates with me but is smiling away at someone she is chatting to on her phone (that I pay for). Weekends are the same unless it involves me taking her shopping and buying her clothes. I am crying at night feeling lonely. I am in a demanding job and am line manager to 25 staff so constantly deal with daily moans and groans as well as keeping users of the service happy and the department running. To come home to an empty house (even though she is upstairs) is soul destroying but I do not regret ending my marriage. It wasn't a marriage. I feel so isolated and lonely. No family for me to confide in.

I save up for those kids and do without myself. Even though I am well paid, most of my money goes on the house and them so I feel like I am working for the privilege of others (my stbx didn't progress in his career and stayed in a lower paid job). Plus, spending my days off cleaning after their mess and my daughter is Queen Messy!!! She is lazy around the house too!

I, currently, have both kids on holiday (long haul) and I'm not enjoying it one bit! Constant patronising from the eldest (and he gets angry if I have a go at him and he says it's my fault as there is 'something wrong with me') and the youngest has her face in her phone all day and doesn't say a word to me. I've done everything for those kids! Worked hard to provide for them. This holiday has cost close to £8k (money I have saved) but they just don't seem to appreciate what I do for them!!
Both kids don't socialise outside of school much (very rarely).

How do I deal with this? I am fed
up of being like this. Lonely. Trapped. I feel
I have missed out big time on a loving relationship and the people in my life who should shower me with love - my children - don't and I feel hatred is often directed at me. I am so unhappy in life. Dealing with stress all day and coming home to stress and upset too. There is just no love in my life at all. I am 5 years post menopausal and that has been tough too (especially with hormonal kids) and I'm not on HRT - I'm over the worst of it now.

How should I deal with this?

By the way I just bought myself a Wise Phone to cut back on ny own phone addiction! I don't think it's available in the UK but you can definitely get her a simpler phone or remove it entirely until she shapes up.

techless.com/products/wisephone

Also have you considered having therapy? You have been through so much and accomplished so much, also going through big life changes: divorce, Menopause & kids growing up. You might find it useful to help you transition into a happier more fulfilling place. Only go to someone with A LOT of experience, who is well qualified, is a parent and is older than you so "gets it". Can you think about making a career change if it's so stressful? You sound very well qualified and there are a lot of jobs available right now. Although maybe get yourself a therapist before you introduce any more change to your life.

"I'm really hoping things change!!!!"

Not unless you make it happen OP. You've written a lot about travelling in this holiday but you haven't actually mentioned any of the proper parenting that you need to put in place to provide a child with Good guidelines and structure. You haven't actually mentioned ANYTHING other than dd's phone that you are going to actually DO.

What is required is Tough love. It's not going to suddenly change, of itself, unless you make it happen, is it? A lot of firmness and saying no is required. Are you prepared to do that? Why haven't you talked about it. Already?

No long emotional spiel, no tears and sobbing and begging for their love. Have some self respect. Tell them you aren't prepared to be treated like this anymore.

Btw My parenting is far from perfect and I have two children who are very entitled quite obnoxious and quite rude. But they can be lovely. DH and I were talking about it the other day I can't quite understand how this has happened, although everybody these days seems to be pandering to all the children and we seem to have a millennium snowflakes who are obnoxious and entitled.

But we thought that we were doing a reasonable job because we were very respectful of our parents and I never spoke to my parents like that and so we thought that we were doing enough of guiding them saying no strict guidelines trying to make them understand to respect and treating people normally and nicely - was expected of them. But clearly our efforts have failed. But we're still working on it: banning ds2 from x box. Dh saying to him 'don't talk to me like that, I don't know who you think you are, but I won't tolerate it'. It continues. WIP - work in progress......

The other thing is, like you, my ds1 is off To uni, leaving ds2. Dc2 then becomes an only child for the first time. You gonna let dd stay in her room, and not talk to you? No!

Op two things stand out to me:

I have a 14 yr old, she uses her phone as much as she can but the sheer amount of time your dd is on her phone is really excessive and would worry me. What is she doing? Is it safe? Missing meals to sit on her phone is really NOT normal at all, even for this age group.

Take the phone away for a few days - set some time limits at the very least, and stick to them. Are you allowing her to disappear on her phone to avoid parenting/arguing/conflict? Why are you allowing this? And I ask that kindly because screens are like a drug and your dd is hooked, help her escape out of that room. Start talking to her, cook, go out for a walk, hang out, watch a film and start engaging with her. I imagine she is upset because she got the worst room and her brother got the larger one automatically, maybe they can swap midway?

Secondly ‘your needs’ are your responsibility. No one else needs to notice or pander to them. You have to take care of your needs, not your teens. If you need love, company, attention and support you need to meet those needs yourself with adult friends, a new partner and a therapist. Your kids only job is to grow up and make their own way in the world, they are not there to serve other people’s needs. The sacrifices will all make to have children is a on us, we didn’t have to have dc, no one forced us. Please consider counselling to help you through some of the emotional pain you are clearly experiencing. Your children can’t fix you op. Only you can do that 💐

What’s your plans for today op? If they want to be ungrateful brats that’s their call, but let’s not stop you enjoying what has been one of my favourite holidays. Don’t try and accommodate them, go for the things you enjoy.

When I read your first post I was sitting there like 😳😳😳 and thinking of all the things you could do to give them a kick up the arse - cutting allowances, turning off wifi, confiscating phones etc…

And then I read you’ve taken them on an £8k holiday - where your dd has declared the main bedroom is hers?!! Wtf!! You’ve essentially rewarded them for their poor behaviour!

Time for some VERY tough love.

OP, I could hug you. You sound utterly exhausted.

In the past when DC have doormatted me, I say in a very calm serious, reflective voice, something like: 'It is my job to raise you to - among other things - show love and respect for people who love and respect you. That includes me, your mother. I seem to have failed because you treat me like a doormat and it has left me feeling flat, absolutely exhausted and empty.'

Then I'd perk up a bit and say, 'So, how we live from now on is down to you. If you want us to descend into slum, neglect and hunger, carry on as you are. If you don't, you need to start returning my love, hard work and care for you with some for me. No one has ever looked after me as I have cared for you. Not my parents, not my husband - no one. So I am now going to care for myself and if you want to live in a warm, loving, well run home, you will take responsibility for being warm, loving and helping to keep our home nice. I'm not a slave, servant, skivvy or doormat. So from now on I won't do a thing unless you ask me with love and appreciation whether I will and whether you can help. That includes shopping, cooking, cleaning. laundry, cups of tea, paying for phone contracts. The choice is yours.'

I think the occasional absolutely cool-headed I-mean-every-word lecture works brilliantly when teens are like this.

And honestly, I'd then sit in the living room with your favourite music or TV show on and not lift another finger. If you feel hungry, get yourself a healthy snack. If they start to complain, just smile and say: 'Simple choice. Start treating me with respect and love and kindness. Or don't. Up to you.' Keep it up. For weeks if need be. All they have to do to turn the situation around is treat you well.

The other thing you could do is Nothing. As in, stop, immediately, without comment, doing laundry, cooking, cleaning, shopping. Never offer a brew or a shoulder to cry on. Come home later from work because you've been to a gym or dance class. Wait for them to notice and comment, then give the speech above. Ask them if they have felt uncomfortable being treated as invisible or with scorn, as though their wellbeing doesn't matter to you at all.

Really, you do need to start loving yourself and putting yourself first some of the time. Don't rush home to make tea. Stay after work a couple of nights a week to do something that replenishes you -yoga or meditation, dance class or pottery - anything. Spend some money on your appearance. If it means spending less on them, that's fine.

Another way I find useful is mirroring their behaviour, So if they call you by your name not mum, reply by saying 'daughter' or 'boy child'. If they speak with scorn, exaggeratedly roll your eyes and mimic their voices back at them. Half the time they have no idea how awful they sound. It's our job to show them.

By the way I know it’s hard when you’ve had a dysfunctional childhood yourself - my mum had schizophrenia and alcoholism and I was left to fend for myself a lot of the time and consequently I probably over compensate with my dc (aged 19 and 10) but it’s important to realise that you don’t always have to be popular to be a good parent.

I totally agree that it is OPs job to meet her own needs, that's not her children's job.

But it is her right to expect and demand love, care, respect and some reciprocal nurture from her teens. Because it is their job to learn how to be co-operative, respectful, caring and loving of people who show them love, respect, care and co-operation. It is their job to learn the value of the close family unit and how to make it function well by being supportive of each other. And it is their job to learn that if they scorn people who love care for them, that care will be removed and the love damaged or lessened or killed. That is a crucial part of their socialisation in the world.

Those of us with selfish, neglectful parents often overcompensate. I did. I was a doormat and got it wrong so often. But I did turn it around and DC are thoughtful and loving now.

You can’t demand love gold you definitely can’t with teens.

In my experience the only way to achieve ‘respect’ is by being respectful of yourself, your time/energy and having solid boundaries that others are made aware of and rules in your home - ie everyone cleans up after dinner, puts the washing on, feeds pets. Automatically. It becomes habitual that the teen cleans up after dinner, asks if you would like a drink if they are making one etc. It takes years to cultivate accepted, but it is small steps and communication that wins eventually.

I suspect op has devoted her life to her kids, bent over backwards to give them everything she can and being teenagers they fully expect her to continue indefinitely. This is what need ti change. The weight of expectation. It should start immediately with the 18 yr old who is now an adult. If he is rude simply say ‘ You speak to me like that ever again son, you will be living elsewhere. You are an adult now and the teenage rudeness needs to stop right now’

OP it all sounds really tough but as you say you have to opportunity to care for yourself and build a happy life for you independent of your kids.
You will all have some happy memories of Canada. Holidays are like that.
I'm not sure about a week in Europe next year. I just took my similar aged DC on a U.K. city break for 3 nights. 2 would have been enough but it was a long way to drive. We mostly did what they wanted but I chose a restaurant and a museum (that had an exhibition they would like).
I often remind my right on kids that Feminism begins at home and it’s not right for me to be doing everything. It does slide though and needs constant cheerful assertiveness. Just like work. It is a tough phase.

Teens can be very trying . I have 18 & 21 year olds and the 15+ years have been the hardest for me. I loved being a mum but found it hard when they start to emotionally pull away and you can’t solve everything with a cuddle or you can’t go up to a bully at secondary school and give them what for( I did actually do this but don’t advise it.)
I agree with others that you need clearer boundaries. Pull them up every single time. BUT don’t add emotion just calmly say, clean up after yourself in the kitchen or leave a list of chores for each when you are are out of the house. So I’d write ‘Please could you hang the washing out?’ This worked for me better when it was written as I think it took the emotion out of the request and they always did it. I came home yesterday to DD 18 having brought the washing in because it had started to rain. Wonders will never cease! DD one has just graduated and by the second year away she appreciated home more and us more. She’s about to move out so will get a hefty dose of reality. Have you read any books about raising teens? I read ‘Get out of my life! But first can you give me and Alex a lift into town?’ when DD1 was 16. It was a huge relief!
Good luck OP and well done on all you have achieved. You are a strong person and you can do this.

@Benjispruce4 I agree taking the emotion put really does help.

DH is very transactional in his arrangements with DS16, so when he asks for a lift somewhere DH says he will do it if DS walks the dog for 30 mins as that's how long the lift takes there and back.

I find it quite hard to operate that way as often when giving DS lifts is the best time to actually have a conversation with him - we aren't face to face and he feels more receptive to opening up about things. However I do think DHs approach helps DS to recognise that we aren't just there to do his bidding.

On the holiday- to be fair to the teens - presumably they didn't ask to be taken on an £8k holiday, so it's hardly a reward. Have to say it is making me glad though that we did West Canada when DS was 8 and he still declares it the best holiday ever.

Last year we went to Whitby for a week with DS and his friend joined us half way through. I honestly think that was probably the best teen holiday we have had with DS. As his friend was coming part way through he seemed more amenable to spending time with us for the first part and DH and he had an amazing day doing electric mountain biking. We were also within walking distance of the town, so if he had enough parent time he could walk back by himself and have a couple of hours of downtime.

I think the issue partly here is that the teens are being expected to provide companionship for OP and whilst respectful conversations should be a given, it's probably too much to expect them to be grateful and enjoyable travel companions at that age for prolonged periods of time.

I get the feeling you are being resentful of your children. They are rude and ungrateful so I understand why you would feel hurt by them however, perhaps your anger is misdirected. It seems that you are expecting them to give you the love that has been lacking in your life although, they definitely do love you, teens go through a stage where they only think of themselves and won't show you the love you are craving I agree that it may be beneficial for you to get some counselling and deal with all those years you felt neglected as this seems to have an impact on your wellbeing.

It's only natural for teens to want to spend more time with friends than their parents as this is part of them separating from you however, it is up to you to set some boundaries in terms of helping out around the house and balancing friendships with family time. Maybe some rules might help,such as eating at least one meal together per day around the table, no phones during mealtimes. If they want to keep their phone privileges then they need to do some chores. Rather than take their phone without warning you could set up a weekly chore chart and agree with them beforehand what chores they would do and the consequences if they don't do it. That way they are considered in the decision making process.

I respectfully disagree. If you say to them, 'Change yur ways or you are out on the streets,' you are setting up a combative atmosphere. That's not, long term, the atmosphere you want. You don't want to switch from doormat to dictator overnight. They will push hard against it and if you are and have been all yoru life, a doormat, there's a high chance you'll crumble, which will prove their counteraggression right.

Instead, talk. Really explain what they are blind to. In a calm, authoitative and loving way. I have watched a friend do it your way - she now barely sees her young adult children. I did it the talking way and we are closer than ever. They have their own lives but come home for my birthday, take me out to dinner, DS has even on a few occasions, cleaned the house as a surprise for me. And I was in full doormat mode when they were little.

You've got to be the change you want to see in the world and if you want to live in a loving mutually supportive family unit you don't start by saying do as I say or you are homeless.

I have re-read your op as well. Some similarities between you and me are absolutely shocking so I really do understand. But. I did not have an abusive childhood, I was loved and parented properly. And I chose Dh who is 9 years older, and would do so again because he's a diamond (although he drives me beserk, often). I was taken to the pub, but I adored it, the packet of crisps, and don't see it as badly as you do.

You need seriously counselling. Please arrange this asap.

This is a very helpful thread. Thank you for starting it, OP. I hope you are able to make progress with your own situation.

It’s hard when you have experienced neglect or abuse and give your all to your own children and family life. Good on you for breaking the cycle of neglect and providing well materially and emotionally for your own children.
But being well cared for is children’s birthright so they won’t be grateful. They may be more appreciative as they get older, especially if they have their own children.

I definitely tried to create what I didn’t have as a child and I have a senior role similar to yours. I think lots of people in the caring professions have some similar early experiences (not everyone of course).

@Oblomov22 being outside a pub with a bottle of lemonade, striped paper straw and a packet of cheese & onion was a normal part or 70s childhoods wasn’t it? 🤔😬
Sorry don’t mean to derail.

@Benjispruce4
Quite. Couldn't agree more.
Sorry OP!

@Benjispruce4 and @Oblomov22 my brother and I used to take badminton rackets and shuttlecocks and play outside the pub on a breezy moor in the summer for hours while our dad was inside! This was early 80s. We were about 13 & 10.

gold With the utmost respect did you miss the part where op ended up in hospital due to her son inflicting an injury to her breast? He has physically assaulted op, and your solution to an adult man causing so much harm to his mother that she needed medical treatment in a hospital is a casual ‘chat’ and anything else would be authoritarian????

Seriously?

Op you have already put up with way too much. Please get counselling and advice from womens aid. Abuse comes in all forms. I am so sorry this has happened to you 💐💐

I no it's hard op.but this is how teens are.i think the difference is most bounce back or ha e moment a of humanity.you no it's their age/ hormones rtf but on the flip side this isn't the whole of who they are and often if not sometimes you very much see the glimpses of who they are.its like an illness at this age.and what keeps you hanging on is you no it's isn't reallyreally them.
And you own parentg guides that.
whothey come out the other side co.es from you.
On one hand you have spoon fed and given them the world with no safe walls,rules or guidance of how to be "proper" people.i get lots of that comes from your need to be loved,for them to need and give you what you didn't have as a child.but that somethi you need to work on healing.bevause by not letting your kids grow up by doing all and being all they can't be all at fault for then nor knowing respect,rules,how to adult and be independent.
Kids often lash out more when they do t feel held in those walls.they need from us to no we have both got them and can show them right from wrong,good and bad,what to do next.whwn they haven't got that either by lack of care or no rules at all they are on overwhelm and misfire.

You don't need to chick them out.especially 14 year old.she still needs all that support of a child.but equally you have to be be met with her respect and growing sense of getting older.so she should be helping out.cooking.cleaning up.sticking laundry on etc. But again this should have been happening by now.you doing it for Her,why would.she ever step up?
The 18 year old has grown up into an adult that never been taught how to an 18 year old.or adult.he has no idea how to navigate responsibilities.
I no it's tough.all u wanted probably was to give them all you yearned for.
You haven't failed.
You've been given a shit start.you needed that guidance at their age too!
But you can set things up now.
Finding yourself and what you love to do being big priority.
Half your post was on your own life.i think you need so e help with this.
It's clearly still hindering you and that's ok it's looked bloody tough.
And they will be appreciating your holidays.from one way past it teen.i love and am so thankful of the holidays they dragged the miserable g it me round on.i tell it to them often now ha.i never would have then.but this is completely normal at this age.its doesn't reflect on you.