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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

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Original poster

15 year old extremely defiant at school

27 replies

Notadoormat · 10/07/2022 21:57

My 15 year old DS has been suspended three times in the last month and is refusing to even attempt his Mock papers. No amount of talking/ threats etc seemed to work. Behaviour has never been good at school but got worse and worse in the last two years. Lots of stupid behaviour but also rude and defiant. Both myself and husband are educators so even worse for us. Husband took early retirement due to health issues and is trying to sort DSs issues with him. DS is not academic but not stupid just does not want to do any academic work. School he is in is very strict and academic and is probably not a good fit for him but all schools in our area are like that. They threatened him with managed move now but DS still not taking it seriously.

All DS wants to do is hanging out with mates. He has been reasonable about it and keeps to his agreed curfew of 9.30. He also does cadets but skips it at times. Any mention of homework or revision results in WW3 and he gets very nasty and verbally abusive. At school he literally does nothing so they are on his back with detentions and he refuses to go so gets put in isolation or gets suspended. Recently DS has been very nasty to his teachers and trying his hardest to impress some mates and a girl he fancies with his 'bad boy' antiques.

We are trying to gain back control now created a very clear list of expectations and basic rules. It includes doing his homework and catching up with some work over the summer. Will limit his outings once back at school. I am dreading his reaction as starting tomorrow. He seems to think they rules look ok but i suspect the minute we start insisting on work it is going to be a dreadful experience. DS is obstinate like a mule. DH had enough as tried very hard to help him. We would leave the academic side alone but unfortunately his behaviour is very much linked to him not doing the work. He has no SEN issues and can be a polite and very mature lad outside school. Just dreading him been permanently kicked out. Sorry for the long post,

OP posts:

mumofblu · 11/07/2022 07:41

Sorry to hear what a difficult time you are having .
Does he have social media ? I'm wondering if all his "antics" are getting him attention / an audience . iykwim !

E.g
Oi mate , what you said to that teacher was wicked !

My dd very good in a school generally but likes boys who cause disruption . Also her behaviour is commented on and discussed by her and I think really re enforces a status .

It's tough but after particularly awful behaviour a month ago we removed the phone so she doesn't have that attention and yes she's not happy but no angry behaviour beyond words since .

Does he have a mentor / older boy who could perhaps guide your son to making better choices ?

Hope things change

orangeisthenewpuce · 11/07/2022 07:46

They can't threaten a managed move. You have to want to apply for another school in the first place which can be converted into a managed move. Without your agreement it can't happen.

TeenDivided · 11/07/2022 07:49

What does he want to do after y11? Have you had discussions around options and grades, and also consequences of choosing to do nothing?

orangeisthenewpuce · 11/07/2022 07:50

The fact you are dreading his reaction isn't good. I'd remove his phone from him and refuse to give it back unless he does what he's meant to do for an agreed period. If he doesn't do it no phone. His choice. See what happens.

FreudayNight · 11/07/2022 14:36

I would go a completely different route. Just drop the rope.

He obviously can’t be arsed with school at the moment, and pushing is just making it worse. He should find an apprenticeship/any job at all and let him grow up a bit. If he wants to go back to school in his twenties then he can do it. But I would get him out of the system as soon as possible.

FreudayNight · 11/07/2022 14:37

How far off 16 is he?

Original poster

Notadoormat · 11/07/2022 15:27

Thank you everyone. Will see how this week goes. Agree that some kids need more vocational route but still have to work with the system. DS says he wants a simple life and do apprenticeship as hates writing etc. Trying to explain that there is no such thing as a simple life and easy job😂He is good with people and can cook so does a few odd shifts with a mate at a local Pizza place. He does a lot of training with cadets. He is nearly 15 and a half and wants to do apprenticeship but not sure what. He even mentioned brick laying which pushed his academic grandparents over the edge😂 He was considering navy and marines. Agree he needs to think what he needs to do to start applying himself. Whatever he does he needs to sort his behaviour at school. Thank you for all the tips everyone.

OP posts:

carefullycourageous · 11/07/2022 15:32

Bricklaying is fine. My builder earns far more than I do.

I wonder if all this pressure to be academic is part of the issue.

I would help him find an apprenticeship. Also move schools if possible.

FreudayNight · 11/07/2022 16:13

Building trades can be very well paid. The plasterer who did our house was driving a Lamborghini. I assumed he was a footballer.

RatherBeRiding · 11/07/2022 16:18

Does he enjoy his work at the pizza place? Has he any ambitions to be a chef? At 15/16 it's very difficult to know what to do with your life but he seems very clear that he isn't academic and wishes to go down another route - which is fine, but he would need to have a clue about what he enjoys/is good at.

Moonface123 · 11/07/2022 16:23

School is not the be all and end all, some kids, especially the assertive ones have long outgrown it by this age. Allow him to make his own choices, put the ball in his court, life experiance is a good thing, not just sat bored stiff within four walls of a building with students all his own age, its too restrictive and limited for some.

PipandPoseytime · 11/07/2022 16:27

As someone who works with very challenging teens, I'd say he doesn't sound too bad - as in he has clearly identified what is motivating him and what isn't, which is helpful. I'd be doing all I could to get him along to as many opportunities involving work experience / bricklaying / army / navy / open days etc as possible, and also looking for a decent mentor. Is there an FE college near you that accredits apprenticeships where he can visit and speak to someone who leads apprenticeships? Any contacts within armed forces or building trade etc? Grandparents response is not helpful. As a pp said, trades can really be extremely lucrative and his path is his own. You sound like you get that.

But he just needs a clearer vision of his goal to really motivate him, and a step by step plan of how to get there, and it sounds like that would be the push he needs to stop the silly behaviour. So help him identify the apprenticeship or training opportunity that gets him excited.

Ncwinc · 11/07/2022 16:36

’I wonder if all this pressure to be academic is part of the issue.’

this ^

WirelessBirmingham · 11/07/2022 16:48

Wondering where you live where all schools are very strict and academic?!

The grandparental snobbery wants firmly squashing by both parents imo. I've experienced it as a parent towards my children and other young people and it's hugely negative. It's exhausting but necessary to challenge each and every time.

GeorgeCat1 · 11/07/2022 16:53

I think the reaction to all of you to the bricklaying exposes the real problem. He's a square peg and you are trying to squash him into a round academic hole.

Mollymalone123 · 11/07/2022 16:55

Seeing as most trades are high earning and especially brickies are v sought after.think day rate of £350 paid,more depending on where you live -then a practical vocation is a good fit for him.Having a trades background guarantees you work for life as construction industry is desperate for good tradesmen.

Tauranga · 11/07/2022 16:58

Could he be dyslexic? He sounds a lovely boy, and hearing he has academic family seems that he may be very clever too. If he is clever but not able to reflect that in his work he might deal with this by having huge stress about school. My son is dyslexic but I knew to look out for it as my husband is too.

Original poster

Notadoormat · 11/07/2022 17:33

This has been hugely helpful ! Brought many memories about not living up to parents' expectations and failing academically . We are not as concerned with the academic side of it but for DS to stay in his current school he needs to show at least some effort. He said he wants to stay there. We have 3 top schools near us and the others I would be reluctant to send him to due to other problems there. The whole system is wrong as there is no vocational training until kids leave school. Will try to ask around for some advice on trades and apprenticeships. We have assumed in the past that DS wanted to go down a more academic route as he was talking about going to university one day. More than happy for him to take on apprenticeship but he still needs his maths and English to get a chance as so many kids want apprenticeship. He is not dyslexic and has no SEN needs. Just unmotivated and disengaged. Also very entitle which is our fault. You are right about grandparents too ! A lot to think about !

OP posts:

Crazykatie · 11/07/2022 17:55

I’d agree, get him out of school and into work, plumber electrician car mechanic, once he gets motivated he will realise he needs qualifications and can do it.

I have to ask is he dyslexic/dyspraxic, he sounds pretty much like one of my sons his bad behavior was to cover up that he just could not understand anything. With help he is now running his own business as an engineer and making a lot of money.

forrestgreen · 11/07/2022 17:56

I'd be looking at some work experience week ends to try and pull a plan together

Original poster

Notadoormat · 11/07/2022 18:04

This is a great idea. Will speak to school about mentoring by an older student. He does not see his teachers as people who are trying to help but as foes who interfere with his social life. A student mentor might be a good idea to try.

OP posts:

Original poster

Notadoormat · 11/07/2022 18:06

Thank you. We have been talking about work experience for him. He mentioned working at the pizza shop over the summer but he might be open to see what tradesmen actually do. Will have to ask around .

OP posts:

2bazookas · 11/07/2022 18:36

Can you possibly find him a paid job for summer starting ASAP? (consider asking everybody you know; shops, farms, neighbours needing lawns mowed.).

Hard work in the real world among adults away from his mates, a little independence and his own pay. Could make all the difference.

Yespresh · 11/07/2022 18:40

Is it possible who could either have adhd or be on the autism spectrum? I am saying this only out of experience. Son has just been diagnosed with severe adhd age 27 but never had the classic signs.

PipandPoseytime · 11/07/2022 19:33

Definitely look at FE colleges which accredit workplace apprenticeships and do a visit, let him chat to an assessor about it. They treat students so much more like adults than they do at school so he'd probably be more responsive.

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