Called in to school today

[feemcgee]

I'm looking for advice about what to do with my DS (13). We were called in to speak to his Head of Year today about his attitude and behaviour. There's been what the school describes as low level behaviour for the past year - talking in class, not handing in homework. They are concerned because he's started acting aggressively when challenged by teachers, and what they describe as intimidating to other pupils. He's really tall and hangs around with a group who act in the same way. My DH is all for grounding him forever and sending him to private school, but I would like some advice about may really work.
The school says that he also gets a lot of merits and is intelligent, and that this is the time when he can decide which path to follow. He starts S3 and his National 5s in June (Scotland).
My Dh thinks I make excuses for him. It's impossible for us to talk about this without arguing, but that doesn't help anyone.

Sorry but I'm with your husband. He is showing aggression to teachers ffs. It's not a slap on the wrist situation. Intelligence means sod all if you're in with the wrong crowd and acting like a hoodlum.

I'd let your husband be firm with him and stand behind him completely on it. Otherwise this is probably going to get really out of hand.

I'd also get him a gp appointment as there may be an underlying mental health issue or personality disorder beginning to form.

What’s his behaviour like at home?

Sorry, I should clarify - not aggression as in squaring up to others, but being argumentative.
You are absolutely right, I need to stand by my DH and face up to this. Think I just needed to hear that.

Ah I gotcha. Tbf though if he is being 'intimidating' to other children, how long before he starts acting that way towards adults?

Always make it clear with him that actions have consequences and that if he does then this is what will happen. And follow through.

I'd also have a word with him about him getting older now and he needs to decide what kind of person he wants to be. A good one, who brings good things to other people's lives, or a shitty asshole bully that everyone hates. And that he should think about the kind of company he keeps because if they behave like the later then they aren't capable of real friendships anyway.

Perfect Pinkbonbon, many thanks xxx

Good luck!

While I do agree that you have to make it clear that this isn't on.
I think unless you also work on what is going on, you won't get anywhere.

At about this age my ds did a life assessment thing at school. They had to put in all sorts of things - what car do you want to drive, what sort of house do you want to have (eg detahced 4 bed in London , do you want new iphone and a netflixs accout etc etc . Then based on that they were told how much money they needed to earn each month.
My ds did it fairly modestly, for example he knows London is expensive, so he chose Manchester, and not a BMW and so on.

he was pretty surprised at how much he needed to earn per month.
(the game added on for utilities and food etc)

Then they could look at certain jobs, how mcuh they paid, and if that matched their anticipated lifestyle.

It was a fun day, but I did notice a shift in attitude, real life lesson that if he wanted a decent lifestyle he needed to be able to earn it. He still did bare minimum for most of school, but enough.

13 is a classic age for thinking What is the Point of school. He may also need to talk about how some of the kids he likes to hang round with may not end up getting the exmas they need either. Learning to do what is right for you, rather than following the crowd.

I woudl do that in a working together type of way, rather than confrontational.

and also - admitting that being 13 can be rubbish at times, real in between satge, that you understand, that life isn't always easy.
I remember dd being amazed when he Granny said that to her, she had no idea that adults understood!

I think in an ideal world working together would be ideal but for me but that goes right away the second they start seriously disrespecting you or their teachers. Then it's time to step up to firm parenting mode. You're the parent not their buddy.

If it was something minor then you could discuss it with him and try to work together to see how we could be resolved. But this is some pretty major attitude problems - and that is choosing to be disrespectful. That doesn't merit easygoing, collaborative, benevolent mummy and daddy. It warrants a bloody good telling off for being a a wee shit and a set framework put in place for what will happen if this behaviour continues.

Of course it it be hard to find a balance between firm and fair. That's why I wouldn't sweat the small stuff. But being called into school for him behaving disrespectfully and intimidating ppl...that needs dealt with firmly imo.

We had this, at about the same age . He’s just turned 16 and things are far far worse. We were/ are in a similar situation to you in that our approaches differ quite a lot. My DH is very strict ( or wants to be) and he thinks I am too soft.
We now have aggression violence blatant disregard for rules (ANY RULES) school refusal drug taking sneaking out the house at night, sneaking back in and leaving the doors unlocked and destroying things in the house . being asked to leave the school is a real possibility as when he does turn up his behaviour is terrible and we have been assessed for social services intervention, which we will be getting.
The other day we had a family chat about the fuel prices and asked him to cut down on his 2x 35! Minute daily showers , we ended up with a broken chair a broken door handle a broken lamp a suspected broken hand ( it wasn’t ) and spitting in my dhs face. So that’s where we are, and now he’s a lot bigger .
In an attempt to channel his aggression and teach him some discipline etc we have signed him up, over the years for karate judo and kickboxing. In retrospect a massive mistake as we have basically fucking weaponised him.
My only advice is to go with your husband and back him to the hilt . Have absolutely zero tolerance for anything above normal teenage cheekiness. And stamp out any disrespect immediately.
My DH and me only ever argue about him, we have come close to splitting up on several occasions .
Take a hard line with him, don’t end up like us .💐

@Pinkbonbon

I'd also get him a gp appointment as there may be an underlying mental health issue or personality disorder beginning to form.

Eh He's being a teenage ratbag. Mental health and personality disorders are not relevant.

@steppemum

While I do agree that you have to make it clear that this isn't on. I think unless you also work on what is going on, you won't get anywhere.

At about this age my ds did a life assessment thing at school. They had to put in all sorts of things - what car do you want to drive, what sort of house do you want to have (eg detahced 4 bed in London , do you want new iphone and a netflixs accout etc etc . Then based on that they were told how much money they needed to earn each month.
My ds did it fairly modestly, for example he knows London is expensive, so he chose Manchester, and not a BMW and so on.

he was pretty surprised at how much he needed to earn per month.
(the game added on for utilities and food etc)

Then they could look at certain jobs, how mcuh they paid, and if that matched their anticipated lifestyle.

It was a fun day, but I did notice a shift in attitude, real life lesson that if he wanted a decent lifestyle he needed to be able to earn it. He still did bare minimum for most of school, but enough.

13 is a classic age for thinking What is the Point of school. He may also need to talk about how some of the kids he likes to hang round with may not end up getting the exmas they need either. Learning to do what is right for you, rather than following the crowd.

I woudl do that in a working together type of way, rather than confrontational.

This sounds bloody brilliant, I wish they did this sort of thing in every school! And had taught us about tax, mortgages etc. Going into adulthood armed with that knowledge would have been hugely beneficial.

The intervention of the school is a good opportunity to make some big changes.
Clamp down on screen time at home, monitor homework, limit contact with children who you think are bad influences.
Make it clear that he needs to earn back your trust.
Basically, this is a big deal (that's why the school called you in) and he now needs to up his game.
Can you see minor issues (missing homework, behaviour points etc) on a school app?
DS2 got a behaviour point last week for flicking a child with his ruler in science. I knew before he walked in the door, and we had a conversation about it immediately. In this case it was a one off, but I think you need to be much more on top of what's happening at school.

@statetrooperstacey

We had this, at about the same age . He’s just turned 16 and things are far far worse. We were/ are in a similar situation to you in that our approaches differ quite a lot. My DH is very strict ( or wants to be) and he thinks I am too soft. We now have aggression violence blatant disregard for rules (ANY RULES) school refusal drug taking sneaking out the house at night, sneaking back in and leaving the doors unlocked and destroying things in the house . being asked to leave the school is a real possibility as when he does turn up his behaviour is terrible and we have been assessed for social services intervention, which we will be getting. The other day we had a family chat about the fuel prices and asked him to cut down on his 2x 35! Minute daily showers , we ended up with a broken chair a broken door handle a broken lamp a suspected broken hand ( it wasn’t ) and spitting in my dhs face. So that’s where we are, and now he’s a lot bigger . In an attempt to channel his aggression and teach him some discipline etc we have signed him up, over the years for karate judo and kickboxing. In retrospect a massive mistake as we have basically fucking weaponised him. My only advice is to go with your husband and back him to the hilt . Have absolutely zero tolerance for anything above normal teenage cheekiness. And stamp out any disrespect immediately. My DH and me only ever argue about him, we have come close to splitting up on several occasions . Take a hard line with him, don’t end up like us .💐

This sounds so unbelievably tough, I can't imagine how stressed you all are. I think the police need to be called if he's smashing stuff up and spitting in faces.

I've been the sibling of a child like this and wish my parents had involved the authorities sooner so well done for engaging them now.

But I really wish they'd called the police too as I was genuinely terrified of him and for good reason.

No, being a little sulky and argumentative at home at 13 mighy be normal teen behaviour. But 13 is very young for backchatting teachers and intimidating other kids to be starting (not that it's EVER a good sign of course). It could well be an underlying mental issue developing. You just don't know. No harm in seeing his gp.

I'm sure many of us are aware that if a bully or two that didn't just grow out of it, they became a fully flegleged sociopath as a grown up. It happens. Maybe if they'd seen a therapist at a young age, something could have been done.

I agree that he needs firm and clear boundaries.

But what I said I stand by.
If you don't ALSO explore together something around who he is, why he needs to go to school and help him find some reason for conforming, then he won't.

It is entirely possible to do both.
Firm clear boundaries, and that you will back school all the way etc.

At the same time, talk about future, what he wants to do, help him to map the path between being a millionaire at 25 and where he is now at 13. Don't let him get away with any - I'll play for Man U, or I'll be a Youtuber crap.
he needs a reality check alongside firm boundaries.

and yes, letting them know that he isn't the only one feeling crap, that 13 is crap, but that doesn't actually give him an excuse is important.

My ds tells me that at that age sometimes he was so unhappy/angry/overwhelmed that he couldnt' hold it in and shouted at us/got frustrated etc. He was pretty OK normal teen (now 19) with no real issues, so it was interesting to hear him say that about how overwhelmed he was by emotions at times. It is frightening to feel out of control, and if you are 13 and have no idea that this happens, then you need strategies to deal with it too.

*aware of a bully or two

You've made the right decision OP. Hope you and your DH can sort this out.

What’s his behaviour like at home? I’m with your DH, you need to stamp this out very quickly, I think it’s only going to get worse from here if you don’t, especially if he’s hanging around with a group of badly behaved aggressive teens.

statetrooperstacey I am so, so sorry for what you are going through with your son, it must be really hard for you

Everyone, thank you so much for your understanding words and your invaluable advice, this is what i love about Mumsnet. it will be no nonsense mum from now on!
xxxxx

A similar thing happened to my nephew. Turned out he wasn't being challenged enough academically and he was bored. The school didn't do anything to help improve the situation so he was moved to another school and he improved immediately.

Turned out he wasn't being challenged enough academically and he was bored.

Being bored isn't a reason to behave like an arsehole. We shouldn't be pedalling a narrative that being bored is an acceptable reason to speak to people like shit. It isn't.

OP good luck. Sounds like your DH has this sorted if you follow his lead. If it's bad enough for school to have called you in, it will have been a problem for a while. Best to act now.

Intimidating other pupils is bullying OP. You need to clamp down ASAP.

If your ds is hanging with the popular / hard crowd, he is expected to act a certain way. Boys that can mean bullying, getting into fights and so forth. My dd was in this crowd at school. Didn’t get into trouble herself but refused to show who she was in class.

She ended up never asking or answering questions, showed very little aptitude and so forth. Fine in the playground. But felt oppressed into behaving a certain way in class. Parents evening, the teachers were describing someone, who was not my child. Lockdown saved her from losing all focus as she worked intensely hard.

Dd and I discussed the school feedback and why she couldn’t participate in lessons. A few months later, she asked to change schools. She moved to an independent this year. Her attitude has changed massively. From showing zero aptitude in PE despite being sports mad and being allocated a place in the bottom set (set 3), she is being picked for teams in sports she’s never done before and is now intending to take it for GCSE.

My dd was always told she could go privately if she wished. But initially said no. If you can afford to pay for your ds, it could be a game changer.