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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Original poster

Boy that DD is friendly with and unacceptable behaviour

76 replies

Rollergirl11 · 18/02/2022 09:45

Not really sure what to do with the information I’ve just been given by DD (almost 16)

Background. DD has started to become friends with a boy in her year through mutual music taste and gigs. She happened to bump in to him at a gig that I had taken her to back in November and they went off together for the evening. Then they found out that they are both going to another gig next month with their respective friends so they are going to all join up for the night. Now they have planned to go and see another band together in April. It will just be the two of them. There is no romantic interest on DD’s part and DD doesn’t think there is for him either. He actually has a girlfriend although I understand she doesn’t live locally.

Now the worrying bit. DD has just been told by a friend that there was an incident with this boy last summer at a party. The friend was really drunk, as was the boy. The friend was lying on a sofa kind of out of it and the boy tried to touch her inappropriately underneath her clothing. Another friend saw and pulled the friend away. Apparently the boy apologised afterwards.

Now DD is feeling strange about going to the gig with him. Or even talking to him now. They have both bought their tickets. How should she go about this?

OP posts:
Sheknowsnodifferent · 19/02/2022 08:33

He was caught and therefore forced to apologise. Wtf? Are you all asleep here? The magnitude of his actions and abusing a girl and him having absolutely no consent to touch her, how do we know he didn't spike her drink? We don't. Any mother allowing their daughter to be alone with this predator in the making needs a lobotamy (not directed at you OP)

Original poster
Rollergirl11 · 19/02/2022 09:56

@LosingTheWill2022

I'd be more worried about the type of girls she's hanging about with than him!

So in a scenario where both young men and young women are drinking and one young man attempted to assault a woman, you raise more concerns about the fact that the women were drinking ... Unbelievable.

Isn’t it. So many deeply concerning opinions on this thread it’s actually really depressing. You can see just from this thread alone how victim blaming and rape culture is perpetuated in boys with the horrific misogynistic views of the parents.
OP posts:
Abbsie · 19/02/2022 12:49

It is equally concerning that the basis of all if this is on second hand gossip between teenagers.

IF the allegation is exists,
And IF this was reported,
And IF it meets the threshold for investigation
Then a safety plan will be in place to keep this boy safe.
If this boy is going to the gig, its done so within the safety plan.
Not forgetting the final if - IF the allegation is truthful.

That's a lot if ifs though. Which you are basing on gossip.

The other mate OP's DD is planning on going with might also have a sexual allegation against them. So could any number of people. Point is, these should be treated fairly and confidentially. So you should never know.

Don't base your decisions on gossip, that's incredibly close-minded.

Base your decisions on your child's safety with in mind that anyone she associates with might be a risk.

ldontWanna · 19/02/2022 12:52

@Abbsie

It is equally concerning that the basis of all if this is on second hand gossip between teenagers.

IF the allegation is exists,
And IF this was reported,
And IF it meets the threshold for investigation
Then a safety plan will be in place to keep this boy safe.
If this boy is going to the gig, its done so within the safety plan.
Not forgetting the final if - IF the allegation is truthful.

That's a lot if ifs though. Which you are basing on gossip.

The other mate OP's DD is planning on going with might also have a sexual allegation against them. So could any number of people. Point is, these should be treated fairly and confidentially. So you should never know.

Don't base your decisions on gossip, that's incredibly close-minded.

Base your decisions on your child's safety with in mind that anyone she associates with might be a risk.

Telling your friend you were sexually assaulted at a party is not gossip. Or should victims keep it quiet from everyone except police and their parents?

Still waiting on your opinion as a mother. Would you be completely happy and comfortable with your kid hanging out with this boy?

ScrollingLeaves · 19/02/2022 13:05

@Soontobe60
“Are we saying that every drunken 15 yr old boy who tries to snog a girl at a party is a sex offender? “

He didn’t try to snog a girl.

He tried to touch a girl underneath her clothes while she was lying down drunk on a sofa, and unaware enough that someone else intervened to stop him.

Original poster
Rollergirl11 · 19/02/2022 13:14

This isn’t gossip. The girl it happened to told my DD. And I know that my DD could come in to contact with any number of people that we don’t know about. But that doesn’t mean I should ignore the information I do have. My daughter chooses to believe what her friend has told her. Why does she have any obligation to give the boy the benefit of the doubt? This isn’t idle gossip. It is information that has been relayed first hand from the girl in question to my daughter.

OP posts:
Original poster
Rollergirl11 · 19/02/2022 13:18

Also this wasn’t told to my DD in a gossipy bitchy way. Remember that this incident happened last year. The friend only told my DD now when she learned that they were going to the gig together.

OP posts:
VirginMedium · 19/02/2022 16:57

Rollergirl I think you have to assume that some of these posters are on the windup

ldontWanna · 19/02/2022 17:21

I honestly can't figure it out how these posters are so quick to assume the worst about the girl and make up all kinds of scenarios while saying with confidence that the boy is ok and OP and her daughter should be ok with him too.

VirginMedium · 19/02/2022 18:03

idontwanna either;

  1. they are trolling
  2. they think women/girls are inconsequential
  3. they are thick
oviraptor21 · 20/02/2022 01:20

No.

I'm in the camp that thinks if the boy was as drunk as the girl and the girl was so out of it she wasn't aware what was happening then maybe the boy was so out of it he wasn't aware of what he was doing.
More education around the dangers of drinking is needed. Hopefully this was a wake up call for the boy not to put himself in a position where he is unable to control his actions.

Rainbowqueeen · 20/02/2022 01:46

Your DD is uncomfortable. That’s all you need to know.

You need her to be able to go with her gut in the future any time she feels uncomfortable. Not to dismiss her feelings.

I would support her in not going to the gig with this boy and in not continuing the friendship. Others have given excuses she can use.

This boys behaviour was completely unacceptable and he can deal with the consequences. I find it really upsetting that posters are suggesting he is learning and maybe didn’t know any better. He is 16.

Original poster
Rollergirl11 · 20/02/2022 09:13

@oviraptor21

No.

I'm in the camp that thinks if the boy was as drunk as the girl and the girl was so out of it she wasn't aware what was happening then maybe the boy was so out of it he wasn't aware of what he was doing.
More education around the dangers of drinking is needed. Hopefully this was a wake up call for the boy not to put himself in a position where he is unable to control his actions.

I honestly can’t believe what I am reading here. You really think that the alcohol is the issue here and not the boys actions? That it’s okay because the boy wasn’t able to control himself? Look at the words you use to justify. Why does him being drunk remove culpability? If someone commits a murder (or any other offence) whilst drunk we don’t suddenly say oh well it’s okay because they couldn’t control themselves. How is sexual assault any difference?

You are putting all of the blame on this incident on the victim. What you are actually saying is that if the girl gets so drunk that she can’t prevent herself from being sexually assaulted by a drunk boy then she should expect to be sexually assaulted by a drunk boy. And that’s okay because hey, he’s drunk and can’t control himself. So it’s all the girls fault for getting drunk.

How utterly utterly depressing. I really hope you don’t have kids.

OP posts:
ldontWanna · 20/02/2022 10:00

@oviraptor21

No.

I'm in the camp that thinks if the boy was as drunk as the girl and the girl was so out of it she wasn't aware what was happening then maybe the boy was so out of it he wasn't aware of what he was doing.
More education around the dangers of drinking is needed. Hopefully this was a wake up call for the boy not to put himself in a position where he is unable to control his actions.

Funny how when women/girls are out of it they just crash somewhere but boys/men simply can't control themselves and start groping.Hmm
LowlyTheWorm · 20/02/2022 10:10

Urghhhh. This is why 15 year olds shouldn’t be getting so pissed in the first place.
I don’t see why the OPs daughter can’t just speak to (or message as I do appreciate it’s awkward) her friend (the boy) and say “x just told me what happened last year at Ys party”… and then take it from there. If he is mortified and says he was an absolute dick and never would get so drunk again and was totally out of order to do that… then I’d say move on and if he is defensive and victim blaming then there is your answer.
But I’d be going to the gig regardless!

CakesOfVersailles · 20/02/2022 10:15

I am genuinely shocked at some of these responses. In what world is sexually assaulting an unconscious girl acceptable behaviour?

OP I had a similar situation to your DD but I was university aged and I just ghosted him. He was the son of a distant family acquaintance so I told my parents why we weren't in contact any more. He had never been unpleasant to me but I couldn't look at him the same way and so just never spoke to him again. She probably can't do that because of the friendship groups and school.

In her situation I would cancel the gig they were going to go to as a pair. Either a family situation is invented that she 'can't get out of' or she straight up tells him she isn't comfortable going with him - or says you heard about the friend and won't let her go. She can probably resell her ticket quite easily now.

The next gig with the two groups of friends is trickier. Do you think her group might agree to not meeting up anymore? If she straight out says she won't hang out with him anymore it's not a problem, but if you use the family event excuse it is.

Is the friend who warned her the one who was assaulted or a third party?

VirginMedium · 20/02/2022 10:34

oviraptor21 not sure why you said 'no'. that's EXACTLY my point. you are either 1. or some combination of 2 and 3

ThePlantsitter · 20/02/2022 10:34

Societally, yes of course it's better to approach these things with understanding and a rehabilitive approach. That absolutely DOES NOT mean that girls should ignore information or gut feelings about people who might harm them, give them the benefit of the doubt, or cast doubt on the word of a victim. Doing so is not only personally dangerous but maintains the culture of male sexual entitlement that exists whether you like it or not.

It is not the responsibility of young women to ensure that young men's sexual motives are understood. It should be their job to live their own lives in the expectation that they will not be sexually assaulted (it isn't though, is it. It's their job to protect themselves).

Original poster
Rollergirl11 · 20/02/2022 11:00

@ThePlantsitter yes it is just a given that females grow up being taught to protect themselves and not put themselves in any danger (although we shouldn’t have to). Now some posters seem to be suggesting that it is also our responsibility to consider the predatory males feelings because they might be feeling a bit shit about what they did and after all it was just a mistake and they were drunk and this shouldn’t prevent them from living their lives. Apparently.

@CakesOfVersailles the gig where 2 groups are going should be fine. It is just a casual plan to see everyone at the event so is quite easy to swerve. And yes it is the girl it happened to who told my DD. They weren’t as close friends at the time that it happened but are really close now.

OP posts:
PinchOfVom · 20/02/2022 11:18

@GirlInACountrySong

why are we writing off this boy

this is how they learn and create their own boundaries. He was 14/15 lets hope he's had a strong word with himself and nothing else has happened as he has re-evaluated

pervert? bit strong...op you say in op he 'tried' but then change it to hands under clothing 'actual. we are hearing it fourth hand here so the truth of it will be lost but. its encouraging he apologised afterwards

Wtf.
MissyB1 · 20/02/2022 12:02

@Abbsie is the voice of intelligence and reason. But on these sorts of threads there is never room for intelligence or reason. Only pitchforks and frothing mouths.

VirginMedium · 20/02/2022 12:45

don't try and dress mysogyny up as intelligence and reason. its the oldest trick, trying to paint women as irrational/hysterical/over reacting

its sexual assualt. whether the prick feels bad/comes good in the end, is not the concern/responsibility of OP, Ops daughter and the daughter's friend who was sexual assualted

ThePlantsitter · 20/02/2022 12:45

Using the expression 'pitchforks and frothing mouths' is not thinking about this with reason or discussing it intelligently. It's just throwing about divisive and non specific insults.

The fact is that the OP has to advise her daughter based on the facts she has, with the knowledge that girls ARE more sexually vulnerable than boys, that our criminal system discriminates against victims of sexual abuse of every kind, and that the onus is on them to show how they avoided being the victim rather than on the perpetrator proving they didn't do it. It's for that reason that gossip is what people have to rely on, because formal procedures are not good enough. You cannot assume that somebody who has committed an offence like this has been brought to justice (whatever that means - and I agree it should mean preventing reoffence not pointless punishment). Neither can you assume that the necessary work has been done with boys that will prevent them feeling they can or want to treat girls as sexual commodities.

It is the system that is at fault - not that of people whose first responsibility is themselves or their daughters. I can say I want to dress as I like, walk where I like when I like, and arrange to meet a man in any insecure setting because I shouldn't assume he's a rapist, but I don't. And I sure as hell don't tell my daughter to either, because I know full well she would be both at risk and perceived as to blame for that risk.

ldontWanna · 20/02/2022 12:58

[quote MissyB1]@Abbsie is the voice of intelligence and reason. But on these sorts of threads there is never room for intelligence or reason. Only pitchforks and frothing mouths.[/quote]
There's nothing frothing about reinforcing the fact that OP only has a responsibility to her daughter and her wellbeing is her main(only) concern.

OnlyAFleshWound · 20/02/2022 13:08

@Abbsie

*Both children need safeguarding. To care for the boy does not minimise the needs of the girl. In this case, its very likely the boy will be suffering from some/all of:

  • Shame. Huge, massive, crippling shame.
  • Guilt - for himself, his family, his friends. And of course her.
  • Fear for his safety. Fear of recriminations.
  • Fear for his future.
  • Fear he can never be normal again. Never go to a gig or do normal 15yo things.
  • a desire for the opportunity to show he is a better person than this crime. And cripping disappointment when people don't give him the chance.
  • an expectation that he deserves confidentiality (he's a child. Plus he's not been convicted in a court). But that gossips will gossip.*

This is a disgusting post and I really hope you don't actually work in this field.

It would be great if men who sexually assault women felt shame, fear and guilt. In the real world, they don't give a shit. And they do it again.

If you do work in this field, it's frightening that you are so easily taken in by crocodile tears and fake contrition.