Dreaded Teen Years

[MrsDenzel]

elp Needed!

My 13 year old daughter is being an absolute nightmare, not at school but at home, school gave her a glowing report which shows to me, she isnt a disrespectful person, she is just behaving like that at home.

I’ve recently found out she had been vaping. She was grounded for this, shown her pictures etc of what it can do to you but I am sure she is still doing it when she’s with her friends, although I have no proof.

Its now escalated to the point of swearing. Today she has told me to piss off, said she is sick of living in this f@ck!n house. She also stated if I ever laid a hand on her she would slap me back (I’ve never used physical discipline as a punishment).

I’m at the end of my tether, I feel physically and mentally unwell. She doesn’t seem to care I’ve even cried to her asking what’s the matter with her. I dont know what to do anymore 😢

I've received a phonecall tonight from my DD friends mother who found a vape in her daughters bag, DD friend said it was both hers and my daughters.

She is now grounded and no phone. I keep reading that you shouldn't ground them or take away their phones as its their line of communication but what else can you do?

Her parents evening was fantastic and teachers said she can go far but at home she is getting out of control.

This morning asked for her phone back "said its f@uck!n bad parenting and called me a b!t&ch.

Is grounding her and no phone unreasonable for swearing at me and vaping?

There are 2 threads going right now about teens being hugely punished & responding with, if anything, even more defiant & outrageous behaviour.

I mean, who cares what's "reasonable" -- does grounding etc. work?
I think you're saying no, it's not working.
Why punish if it doesn't make her behave better?

Maybe if you stand your ground for weeks or months or years she'll turn into the person you want... or just get better at hiding the banned behaviour.

In meantime I'd be thinking about other strategies that are less awful for everyone.

When DC3 was little I read the Explosive Child, it was so supportive & useful, arguing that kids behave & conform if they can , and why punishment can be counter productive. I guess that shapes my attitude.

If you stick with punishments, come back & tell us what happened in 6 months. If you think those were right actions after all.

I totally agree and would ground her and remove her phone for such horrible behaviour. It's meant to be a punishment after all.

My 15 year old has never spoken to me like that. At 13, you don't speak like that to your parents and get away with it.

I also have read the explosive child, and agree completely with lljkk.

It's not that your punishments are too severe, but they are not having the desired effect.

I personally would be bright and breezy with the swearing. I know I think my life is fucking shit sometimes, and I'm in control, apparently. Would I be wrong to say it as it is?

Punishments need to be chunkable, if they are going to work. So for instance, if you decide to ground her, do it for 1 day, so that you can build up if necessary.

Don't be hard on yourself either, it's not easy!

Please stop crying to her. That'll never work, and she'll lose all respect for you.

The best advice I ever got about coping with my (now 18 y/o) son's teenage tantrums, was to laugh. Keep your sense of humour always. It shows you're still in control, still rational, still self-assured.

I'm sarcastic as anything with my teenagers and they love it. If you think about it, it's how they talk to each other.

So! Today is a new day. You've got this.

Is she safe? Apart from vaping is she doing things that put herself as risk?

Oh, and pick your battles. Honestly you can't control everything. You have about 4-5 years of this ahead of you. For your own sanity, you have to let some stuff go.

Think of this period like the terrible twos or colic. It's miserable but it ends, it's also unclear whether any thing you do at this stage makes a long term difference so you need to do things that make it work for you now

Teenagers are selfish which makes them especially sensitive (as they take anything as a deliberate slight). The only thing you can do is make it clear how much they are loved.

@loveinthe90s

I totally agree and would ground her and remove her phone for such horrible behaviour. It's meant to be a punishment after all.

My 15 year old has never spoken to me like that. At 13, you don't speak like that to your parents and get away with it.

I would have had the same opinion as you til DD2 came along. Shes 14. I have an older teen also. Older teen has never said boo to me and was always well behaved. DD14 curses at me sometimes. I worry about the kids she hangs around with. I've seen one of them vape. DC are all different.

I don't think taking her phone will help OP. I think it just makes them resent us more. I'm not much help sorry but I do sympathise.

You have my sympathy, it’s bloody hard! We’ve had 2 years of really difficult behaviour with my DS (now 15). Initially I reacted the same way and clamped down hard & punished him. That had always worked well but all it did as a teenager was inflame the situation and escalate it to the point where he wanted to leave home & was very angry all the time. It was a horrible time. I had to learn to back off and let him have more freedom but still with some boundaries - it went completely against my instincts but otherwise I think it would have destroyed any potential relationship we had. He has vaped but now we talk openly about it - he knows we don’t approve & we talk about the risks & cost. Our boundary is not vaping in the house. Thankfully he was just experimenting and has now practically stopped. Vapes are so easily available to teens and are much cheaper than cigarettes. My advice would be try to ease up, talk rather than punish but still have boundaries (yes you can go out later with your mates but we’ll pick you up at x time). Some teenagers are more difficult than others - it’s not necessarily a reflection on how they’ve been raised. I try to remember it’s difficult for them too - they have to push boundaries to truly become independent adults at the end of it. You’re not alone in this.

You need to be more teen and have an answer for everything and not take any of it personally. She tells you to piss off you say as an observation 'That's rude' and just walk away. She says about slapping, you say 'I've never hit you' and walk away.
She wants to vape then tell her clearly you can't stop her as she will just do it behand your back but you want her to be informed and send her/print out info on the dangers and leave her to it. You cannot control her any more.

Tell her how proud you are of how she is doing at school, tell her you love her, if you do anything together tell her how much you enjoy spending time with her. I'd stay out of this cycle of punishment leading to anger, resentment and bad behaviour, leading to more punishment etc etc etc

I agree with people saying that the question "is this punishment reasonable" is the wrong question! The question is "does punishment of this kind work in the way I'm hoping it will?" If the answer is "no" then it doesn't matter whether other people assess it to be reasonable, or whether she deserves it - it doesn't work and might in fact be making things worse.

Obviously if it did work it'd be worth questioning whether it was reasonable just to be sure you weren't being draconian, and then carrying on if it were both reasonable and effective.

Generally crying to a defiant teen is even worse - crying as a behaviour management technique is emotional blackmail, and again it isn't even working. It's good it isn't in this case as that's really not a way you want to teach your child!

I'd say complete grey rock with the outbursts and constantly reminding her that your job is to keep her safe and help her grow up as healthily and successfully as she has the potential to - not to do what she wants.

Id ask her what she thinks good parenting would be and why and listen to her if ahe answers - but obviously under no promises to do what ahe wants if it's just silly demands or teen bluster! You never know, she might tell you to listen to her more, which is a win because she then has to talk to you!

I have two teens older than yours but I must say they've been fairly easy so far and a lot of that is inherent nature, but some is not feeding on drama and trying to remember its not about me or about winning, and repeating boringly often that my job is to help them grow up to meet their potential, not to do/ give them what they want necessarily.

@AlbertBridge

Oh, and pick your battles. Honestly you can't control everything. You have about 4-5 years of this ahead of you. For your own sanity, you have to let some stuff go.

I know people keep stating to "pick your battles" but swearing at me and now calling me a fu@ck!n bitch is crossing the line surely? Im finding it really disrespectful

I haven’t had the swearing but DS can be incredibly rude and disrespectful. I don’t react, just state that he isn’t to speak to me that way, then walk away & disengage from the situation. Or ignore. As others have said, you can’t control them but can state your feelings. It’s a very different approach to that used with younger children and takes a while to get used to.

Hi OP
The swearing would annoy me too.
It's very disrespectful and she wouldn't get away with that at school or work so no reason to put up with abuse at home.
It's very tricky with teens and I agree to some good advice in previous threads.
I would personally show her you won't put up with being sworn at by calmly but seriously saying so and absolutely refuse to do anything nice or extra for her like lifts, cooking nice meals, packing lunches etc.
Just do the bare minimum and let her sort herself out.

swearing at me and now calling me a fu@ck!n bitch is crossing the line surely? Im finding it really disrespectful

I completely agree! So this is your battle. You won't allow disrespect from her. Stick to that - but stay calm. Just say, "You will never talk to me like that again," and give her the look. Make it scary.

But you might have to drop other stuff. Is vaping legal at 15? Does it contain nicotine? (Some vaping liquids are just glycerine and flavourings.) Maybe - if it's nicotine-free - you stop trying to control the vaping..?

"You will never talk to me like that again," and give her the look. Make it scary.

And when she does, which she will, then what do you do. And what do you mean by make it scary.

Some great advice, parenting teens is very similar to toddlers, and like a toddler tantrum, teenager behaviour is not reflective on your ability as a parent.

I've parented all mine the same, and had the full spectrum of behaviour. You have to try different methods, with one of mine it was just like having a toddler, I ignore the bad behaviour and praised the good.

I would laugh and say " 'fucking bitch?' you haven't seen nothing yet my lovely"

Bright and breezy, it's not getting to you....they are just words and she's angry.

Fake it till you make it if you have to.

Oh OP, you poor thing. That would make me miserable and I can fully understand why you're feeling at the end of your tether.

I can see the rationale behind other poster's points of view but every family has it's own definition of 'pick your battles' and I'm afraid my daughter calling me names and swearing at me would be a step too far. Everyone is different, but respect for others is non-negotiable and there would be repercussions (like yours, removing privileges such as smart phones and going out). However, I don't know what to suggest if you fin this doesn't work and doesn't help.

Does she have times when this attitude disappears and you can chat with her normally? Can you talk to her and see what's behind her rage and her lack of respect? Has something happened, other than teenage hormones, to make her change? If you don't get anywhere, could family therapy sessions help?

Grey rock is definitely the way forward OP, she's clearly not affected by you getting upset (which on its own is heartbreaking, I know) so just detach, detach, detach. But, be consistent and see any punishment through - don't let it just be words to throw around.

I really feel for you, I know how hard I would find it and I really hope things improve for you soon. While you've got all this shit going on, can you plan some things for you to look forward to - a meal out with friends, a good movie, a weekend away? Remember, you need to look after you too.

Use the mirroring technique. They are not aware of how they sound.
Say to her: would you like your phone back? in a neutral voice. When she says yes, adopt the tone she had with you and say, ''Well you F888king can;t have it you bitch and if you hit me I will pinch you.' Then immediately de-escalate back to your own voice and say: 'Those are the exact words you used to me, in the exact tone. How did you feel when I used them to you?' We are a calm and loving family, I've never hit you, I have no idea why you think I ever would and you need to start behaving in a calm, respectful and loving manner, just as I do to you. When you have done that genuinely for a day, you can have your phone back. I will never ever take it off you again or ground you again if you never ever treat me like that again. So whether or not you have a phone or are grounded is 100% in your control.

I used to do this sort of thing to DC. Spell it out to them exactly why things happened so they couldn't kid themselves I was a bitch.

I forgot to say - wait for her reply when you say how did you feel when I spoke to you in that manner. Make sure she replies.

@AlbertBridge

swearing at me and now calling me a fu@ck!n bitch is crossing the line surely? Im finding it really disrespectful

I completely agree! So this is your battle. You won't allow disrespect from her. Stick to that - but stay calm. Just say, "You will never talk to me like that again," and give her the look. Make it scary.

But you might have to drop other stuff. Is vaping legal at 15? Does it contain nicotine? (Some vaping liquids are just glycerine and flavourings.) Maybe - if it's nicotine-free - you stop trying to control the vaping..?

Im not sure about the legal age but she is only 13 and the ones shes using have nicotine in.

Does her school rules say anything on vaping?
It is not uncommon for teens to vape in school sadly. Toilet blocks are unfortunately infamous for this.
I would point out the implications if she were caught in school with possession of a vape.
You say she gets glowing report from school so maybe use this to your benefit if possible.
I am with up on the vaping at 13 thing.

@Scoobydoobydoo

Hi OP The swearing would annoy me too. It's very disrespectful and she wouldn't get away with that at school or work so no reason to put up with abuse at home. It's very tricky with teens and I agree to some good advice in previous threads. I would personally show her you won't put up with being sworn at by calmly but seriously saying so and absolutely refuse to do anything nice or extra for her like lifts, cooking nice meals, packing lunches etc. Just do the bare minimum and let her sort herself out.

This is my stance on it too. Play tue long game cos she will want a favour soon enough and will quickly learn shouting and swearing at you won't get her nice things

I completely agree! So this is your battle. You won't allow disrespect from her. Stick to that - but stay calm. Just say, "You will never talk to me like that again," and give her the look. Make it scary.

That's what I do with ds(17) and it works perfectly, BUT I have no idea what I would actually do if he didn't comply with my boundaries, scary look 🤣 and consequences.

We also use humour as much as possible, if he tells me to "shut up" I'll wind him up and make him laugh, but again no idea what I would do if he become properly verbally aggressive.

So I am no help, just want to OP to know some teens are harder than others, especially with their parents and it isn't as easy with them as a boundary or scary look which I am sure you have already done.

My niece was a nightmare with my SIL and don't know how I would have coped with the same from ds. I was the go-between when they were butting heads, just to listen to niece without judgement and try to get her to think about how she was hormonal, how growing up is hard and to understand why her mum does what she does and to reflect on her own actions.

Is there anyone who could perhaps help and be a sounding board for your dd?

If it is any consolation dn and SIL are incredibly close now.