Desperation in Parenting Teen

[Sandydune]

I know parenting teens isn't easy but it shouldn't be this hard surely?
My DD is 17 - only child. Her younger years were straightforward enough and she was a charming, funny, bright little girl. We were pretty strict parents and has high expectations by she also had a privileged life in many ways. About three years ago it was like someone had flicked a switch and she became extremely challenging. She told us that she wasn't prepared to put up with the way she had been treated all her life and was going to fight back. And she did - we went through the mill, and at different stages the police, social services, GP, emergency doctor and A&E were involved due to her extreme behaviour. She started to get into trouble and stopped working in school. She also gave up her extra-curricular activities. I took a parenting course, did lots of reading around the subject of teens. Things calmed a lot over lockdown and she also escaped the pressure of GCSEs.
Last year, she became like a different girl - she did well in school, took up hobbies again, got a job, became more pleasant to be around.
However, thing kicked off with a vengeance again this summer. I feel that her treatment of us is bordering on abusive. She contributes nothing to the house, is plummeting in terms of A level studies. She now does what she wants in staying out all night. She has no self care, sleeps in her clothes and doesn't brush her teeth. She blows all her money (hundreds of pounds) on vapes and other junk, so I no longer give her any money. As a result of this and any other consequences that I impose (such as not taking her out driving), she is even angrier and says that I am a horrible and awful parent. Any time she is asked to do anything or to given a boundary, she shrieks expletives at us. She mitches school and has lost a job for stealing. Friends tell me to make her accountable for herself, but she just ignores me, barricades herself in her room and tells me that I have never shown her any love or done a single thing for her in her life. She didn't even buy me a Christmas present, took all her presents from us and disappeared over Christmas. She called me once - I thought to pick her up and bring her home, but turns out she just wanted a lift.
My mental health can't stand much more, but counselling hasn't really helped. I hate myself for being both tough on her (when I put my foot down) and also stupid enough to try to build bridges (she manipulates things to get what she wants and then treats us badly). I know teens will say anything when lashing out but after three years I find it hard not to believe all the awful things she says about me. I now wonder whether I need to thrown her out at 18 which I would have never thought I would say, but I can only cope with so much. But she will never cope on her own and I do think there is probably a mental health issue or other condition underlying all this. When I say it might be best for her to find her own way forward she just says she will kill herself. Today, she didn't like the fact that I refused something so she cut herself (a bit half heartedly) with a knife, so there is a lot of emotional manipulation going on. She had agreed to be tested for ADHD but there is a long waiting list but she has refused to be tested for ASD.
A few years ago I might have read something like this and thought I would never stand for this behaviour, but in reality, I'm powerless to do much. She seems to be able to avoid any accountability or consequences by just running away from them.
Would love to know if anyone else is finding the teen years this hard, or if anyone has any survival stories.

With extreme behaviour like this it does sound like adhd, my dd has it mildly and it’s caused some of the behaviours you describe to a lesser extent. What helped us was family therapy and counselling, as well as a diagnosis through Cahms. I had to change the way I reacted to her..some days I simply stay out of her way. She needs a lot of space, and I try to let her make her own mistakes and deal wit the consequences. I also do not react by shouting or get visibly angry anymore under any circumstances. Even if that means standing in the garden until I’ve got my self together. I ignore her aggressive behaviour completely, which diffuses the situation. I then discuss it when we are both calm. As I say, therapy helped for us all. I also recommend the book ‘10 days to a less defiant child’, which helped me look at things in a different way. It’s hard though, good luck.

Thanks @somewhereoverthechipshop
I hadn’t heard of that book but will look at it now. Do you think it would still be helpful for a 17 year old?
Glad a few things have helped for you. My daughter won’t really engage but she is seeing a counsellor now (although I think that’s of limited use because of her lack of self perception).
Thanks for sharing your experience and tips!

@Sandydune - just wanted to show some support and say I recognise a lot of your original post in our dd (17). I don’t have much advice except to say that we are in touch with our gp as in our case it is linked with an eating issue (over-eating). It has been a painful business being her mum as she is very hostile, has also stolen money from us, and is now failing at school. We can only access the help we can get from the NHS and as we all know, it’s very slow. What bothers me a lot is the manipulation - she was charming on Xmas Day when the presents were coming, but reverted by Boxing Day and took her present to me back! The only thing I do now which I didn’t do before is detach - especially emotionally. For my sanity. I work, go out, get outside, plan my future, hope she will mature at Uni (though she is suggesting going locally and staying at home - go figure). She needs time away from us so she can have some understanding of what we have done to support her, so I will be advocating strongly that she looks further afield. By 18 she will be an adult and although we will always be there for her, she needs to be kinder to us and a more thoughtful human being - and I am hoping she will learn that at Uni where she will get space to mature. Sorry - no advice, but a lot of sympathy. It’s a hurtful phase - in our case quite a long one - but I have had to develop strategies to protect my mental and physical health and maintain some sort of relationship with my husband (who is treated similarly by her btw) and look after elderly parents.

@WhatsitallaboutAlfie1
Thanks for sharing your story and showing your support. It sounds like you are going through such an awful time too. Well done for being mentally strong and doing your best to detach - you clearly have a lot of your plate.
I’m torn about Uni - she has gone from being a top student to failing mocks spectacularly and she only wants to go for the party scene. I don’t feel we should subsidise that but on the other hand, it’s definitely time for her to go!
Here’s hoping you have a reasonably calm few months and get the space that you need.

@Sandydune - thanks. Fwiw I just tried to engage but got the blow torch treatment; so much for me giving advice on detachment! Deep down, I don’t think she likes herself much, but we are definitely the punchbags and have been for 4+ years. What keeps me going are my elderly parents who are so grateful for the smallest of things done for them. It’s the absolute reverse of dd. I am now off to bury myself in work to try and forget the remarks my dd just made and congratulate myself for at least not rising to the bait but walking away. My goodness, it’s a joyless existence…but the real point of this post is to tell you you are definitely not alone.

You are definitely not alone. It is so hurtful to be greeted with such distain and hostility when you try so hard to make them happy. I have heard a lot of people going through the same thing saying you need to detach. I find that so hard and I do find myself getting so upset and taking it very personally and it affects my mental health. I feel if I don’t tackle the disrespect that I am allowing it and saying it is ok. Yet I am the one in tears while my teenager doesn’t care. Jesus if someone told me I would be in this situation a few years ago I would not have believed them. It’s extremely hard to deal with. I feel for you OP and I hear you.

[quote WhatsitallaboutAlfie1]@Sandydune - thanks. Fwiw I just tried to engage but got the blow torch treatment; so much for me giving advice on detachment! Deep down, I don’t think she likes herself much, but we are definitely the punchbags and have been for 4+ years. What keeps me going are my elderly parents who are so grateful for the smallest of things done for them. It’s the absolute reverse of dd. I am now off to bury myself in work to try and forget the remarks my dd just made and congratulate myself for at least not rising to the bait but walking away. My goodness, it’s a joyless existence…but the real point of this post is to tell you you are definitely not alone.[/quote]
Good on you for walking away. I need to learn that particular skill.

@Puremule - I know exactly what you mean about appearing to sanction bad behaviour. It’s just that things said in the moment can come out wrong, so I walk. It also cuts short the ‘episode’. I sanction more in depriving things. We haven’t had a family holiday for yonks. We’d just be transplanting this behaviour to a sunny climate.

She sounds desperately unhappy

We were pretty strict parents and has high expectations

So when she got to what, 14? She started to 'fight back' - that's a normal teen response, not an indicator of autism.

I hate to raise this, but is it possible something horrible happened to her around 14 or 15?

I would also say she is very unhappy but unless she can see this herself there is very little you can do. You do need to detach but it is easier said than done. Do not engage in the drama, I think that teens often want that reaction which is often negative as it fuels their anger. When ds went to uni it was a big turning point for me, when he came home that first Christmas and was vile, I just said that he had a room at uni to go back to, he did not need to be here and to go if he hated us all so much. I called his bluff and he stayed and was more pleasant! It is very very hard.

@mumonthehill well said. Just wanted to add that as a mum of teens I've learned it only hurts if you're doing it right .. but gosh does it hurt . They press all the buttons for maximum impact ..

Just wanted to add that as a mum of teens I've learned it only hurts if you're doing it right ..

That's completely unfair to anyone who has gone through the teen years without 'hurt'. Lots of parents and teens don't have these issues, that doesn't mean the parents are doing it wrong

I’m also wondering if something awful like a sexual assault happened to her a few years ago, or if she started taking drugs then or something, it sounds odd that it was such a sudden change in the mid teens (most mental health issues in teens start either earlier or later), and to me this isn’t a normal teen reaction to even very strict parenting. I don’t think this is normal teen stuff at all I’m sorry to say. I said some pretty horrible things to my mother as a hormonal teenager and was very moody (I was diagnosed with bipolar in later life), but would never have treated her this badly.

The fact that things were better at the height of lockdown and then worse again since “Freedom Day” also makes me wonder about drugs or alcohol although I guess it could also be the influence of peers etc. The disappearing money and stealing also makes me wonder about drugs… The lack of self care could also fit… I would definitely specifically confront her about whether drugs are part of the picture here.

www.familylives.org.uk/advice/teenagers/drugs-alcohol/drugs-what-are-the-signs

She also sounds like she could have emotionally unstable personality disorder from what you’ve described. A neighbour’s teenager had similar behaviour and it turned out to be a combination of a rape, drug abuse and I think bipolar disorder in the end (initially they thought it was EUPD). I do think some of her behaviour sounds really unacceptable but I do get how hard it is to respond appropriately to it, especially when she is still under 18. She isn’t far off being an adult though. I think you should reassure her of your love but do let her know also how hurtful and upsetting you’re finding her behaviour. And that you’re also concerned for her mental health and want to know how you can help her. Specifically ask about drugs!

@elelel I stand by what I say - those that pause to self reflect, worry they're doing it right; go over if this is the right path, constantly review and reassess and doubt their parenting are undoubtedly who see this difficult but privileged role of a parent as a skill to be acquired.

[quote doubleshotcappuccino]@elelel I stand by what I say - those that pause to self reflect, worry they're doing it right; go over if this is the right path, constantly review and reassess and doubt their parenting are undoubtedly who see this difficult but privileged role of a parent as a skill to be acquired. [/quote]

That's not what you said.

You said...

Just wanted to add that as a mum of teens I've learned it only hurts if you're doing it right ..

And you are absolutely wrong to suggest only parents who experience hurt are doing it right. I won't see anyones parenting dismissed because their teens didn't cause them any hurt. How awful.

@elelel not going to hijack this thread with a tit for tat - Happy New Year !
Good luck OP .. I can definitely vouch for it being hard if you're doing it right..

.. I can definitely vouch for it being hard if you're doing it right..

And for some they are doing it wrong and it's hard, others they are doing it right and it's not so hard. You are one example. Please don't dismiss other peoples parenting to justify your own.

Gosh this sounds very hard indeed op

Although we are through the worst now at 18 yrs, I recognise some of the behaviour you describe but in a milder form. My dd and her friends don't really drink a lot or do drugs and have been fairly good with their studies, and they come back home at a reasonable hour after going out, so I think we have been fairly lucky from a peer pressure point of view.

The things that are similar though have been the "flick of a switch" aspect of the personality change which we put down to hormones. Also, our dd has had quite a lot of stresses at school and the pandemic has been really crap for all youth, and that has caused a lot of frustration I think which gets directed at us her parents mainly me.

I am probably going to be flamed saying this but I also suspect, judging what I see among dd and her friends , that there are a lot of unhelpful influences on-line which do not exactly encourage family harmony eg there seems to be an attitude of teenagers feeling very hard done by even when they come from good, loving homes and have parents who, while not perfect in many ways, want the best for their dc and are concerned for them and love them. That is pure speculation on my part though.

Also, there are the physical and biochemical changes eg plasticity of the brain which are as profound as those undergone by toddlers Teens simply do not perceive the world in the same way as adults do, not until their frontal cortexes develop at 25 yrs approx anyway.

My advice is to step back. Protect your own mh. Be there in the background for emergencies and keep lines of communication going and only step in if there is a life threatening situation. The rest of the time, do not offer unsolicited advice, just try and guide with the lightest of touches. Involve yourself in your own interests. Model sensible, measured, behaviour and enjoy interests of your own. Do things which keep you buoyed up mentally. Keep supplying your dd with nutritious food and encouragement. And let her get on with her life until things get better, which they WILL do!

Hang in there op The fact that things were better before the summer is a good sign. Teen progress is rarely linear!

Btw, I would be very wary of getting too heavily involved in university choices. You can advise but don't push too heavily in either direction. Hard though it will be if she chooses to opt for a uni close to home, it needs to be her choice. Otherwise you will get it in the neck for having influenced her the wrong way and she then has an excuse to self sabotage. Going to uni at home doesn't necessarily mean not moving out to separate accommodation after the first year, and with the pandemic ongoing. terms can be very short anyway and holidays long, so it may not be as big a break as you were anticipating if she goes to uni further away. Also its very damaging to your relationship if, despite everything, she gets the impression she isn't loved or wanted at home.

I think it is in the book "Untangled' by Lisa Damour, where the author explains that those teens most 'entangled and entwined and close' (or words to that effect) to their parents, are those who find it most hard to pull away and individuate from them.

And although it appears that your dd is doing quite a good job of it inside she may be full of self doubt and turmoil.

It's hell while it is all going on though so I really feel for you

Thank you all for your thoughtful comments and some really good advice.
The drugs thing does worry me - I don’t think that’s the issue, although I could be wrong and hope I’m not being naive. I don’t feel good about this but I have an old device that can bring up her bank account details (using my Touch ID) but needs must. I occasionally check it - I don’t see anything that I can put down to drugs but the amount of money spent on vapes and junk food is scary. Alcohol is actually something she seems to be growing out of.
We thought that something had happened with her to ‘flick the switch’ three years ago, but she denies, just said that she was finally standing up to us. When I say I was strict, it makes me sound harsh. I just mean we successfully clamped down on any defiance. The book recommend by @somewhereoverthechipshop is brilliant - it makes me realise that ‘clamping down’ on defiance only exacerbates it - the coaching model is great. I also like ‘Untangled’ but it doesn’t seem to reflect my daughter at her most extreme.
Thank you all again. It’s all so hard - I would never have expected to be in this situation but I appreciate hearing your stories too, and a big shoutout to all of you also going through it! X

What happens if you are less strict with her.

She’s 17 and almost an adult. What things are you strict about?

Well, I’m not strict any more. I feel embarrassed because she appears to call all the shots at present - stays out all night/to what time she wants, contributes nothing to the household, swears and shouts at us if we try to engage at all, even when we are trying to do her a favour (for example she shouted at her Dad today when he offered to cook her a steak for dinner because he ‘was trying to control her’).
We were fairly ‘strict’ if that is the right word when she was younger, but the things we were strict about in her eyes at the age of 14 just sound like good parenting to me (insisting she do her HW, supporting teachers in school if there were any issues, removing phone at 11pm, refusing to buy her alcohol, allowing her to stay out all night). I also didn’t allow house parties. Lockdown was a saviour for us, and she was fine with it as everyone was restricted and it wasn’t just her. But now she accepts no boundaries at all.
She seems to have a distorted view of what a parent should be/do. I have always taken a rather no-nonsense approach when she was younger and then later on to what I felt were insane expectations, which I regret now and I should have spent more time listening to her. But that doesn’t mean I could have ever given in to many of the things she expected.
I fluctuate between thinking I’ve been too strict and too permissive. And when someone questions you all the time as she does, you doubt yourself. I know boundaries and relationships are both so important. When she improved over lockdown I did think that the tough times might come back, but we’d have a better relationship to fall back on as a result of some good shared times during that period. So much for that!

@Shinychestnuts. Thanks for your helpful advice and good sense.

judging what I see among dd and her friends , that there are a lot of unhelpful influences on-line which do not exactly encourage family harmony eg there seems to be an attitude of teenagers feeling very hard done by even when they come from good, loving homes and have parents who, while not perfect in many ways, want the best for their dc and are concerned for them and love them. That is pure speculation on my part though

That’s an interesting point. Teenage entitlement is such an issue (ironically I work with teenagers!) and I wish I could get idea from my daughter about why exactly she feels we have never liked her/not been kind to her/has a general feeling of being ‘hard done by’.

My DS is 17, some of what you say is very familiar; he has ADHD and possibly PDA- he also feels he is very hard done by, is aggressive, messy and generally challenging. last year things changed a bit for me with 2 things- one was I called the police when he was being really aggressive to me- he has not been so bad since. the other was that i started to detach a bit, I stopped trying to control everything; didn’t fight with him so much. to be honest it has been a nightmare really up till now, but things are improving, he is calmer and more respectful (sometimes). it is a really hard path and younhave my sympathy? but i agree with pps it’s helpful if you can detach and focus on yourself a bit more and let her come to you when she needs help.