crap weekend with dd, fed up

[steppemum]

Dd was horrible this weekend.
Seriously nasty and rude to her lovely grandparents, who had popped in for a cup of tea and to bring her a birthday present.

Just a typical dd2 moment really, everytime she doesn't get her own way.
She's 14, and has 2 older siblings. Her MH is poor, and she possibly has ASD, so lots going on.

The thing is, I just find it exhausting, and I am sitting her now, trying to wfh and I am just feel really emotional.
Just feel I am failing so badly as a parent.

With the older 2, it was all normal teenage stuff, slamming doors, and eye rolling () and they cam through all right, but with dd2, it is like we are just sailing unchartered waters.

I said to dh last night, my fear is that she won't grown through this and out of it, but will be aged 25 and still throwing a tantrum because she isn't getting her own way and the world isn't revolving round her.

no reason for this post really, just a rant.

Firstly, you’re not failing as a parent! So much of what goes on with teenagers is completely out of our, or their, hands.

Did she actually upset her grandparents, or was it more that she didn’t conform to the social norms of a present exchange i.e. demonstrating pleasure, saying appropriate words of thanks, even if not particularly liking present etc?

If she was just a bit surly or monosyllabic, or made her escape soon after receiving the present, those could just be signs of social awkwardness, which is pretty commonplace at your dd’s age.

What happened that she didn't get her own way and resulted in her being rude? Did she not want to stay in/downstairs and see her grandparents or something else?

You say she may have undiagnosed ASC, was it a tantrum or an autistic meltdown (very different things)
My DS Is 25 and autistic and can still have meltdowns if he becomes overwhelmed - not as often now but can still happen.
You need to pursue the ASC pathway, if she is diagnosed it might give you better understanding of her behaviour.
I feel your pain, I have been where you are, with 2 younger children and as a single parent.
DS is lovely now!

she refused to come downstairs to recieve present (but as dd1 said she had spent all day looking for an excuse to strop off and refuse to join in, she has form for this, she wanted to chat to her boyfriend online and grandparents were an inconvenience)

Then came down to kitchen for something and my Mum was there and said to dd2 - Can I wish you happy birthday? At which point dd was foul mouthed at her. My parents are lovely, and were not phased by her refusing to come down, but she was so foul to my mum, that my mum shouted at her - How dare, you, don't be so rude.
I cannot tell you how out of character that is for my mum and is a reflection of how horrible dd was to her.

She knew that she needed to just come and be nice and say thank you for half and hour, eat some birthday cake, and could then escape.

She is starting a new hobby. It is very expensive, and we can't afford it, but we thought it would be really good for her MH, she has wanted to do it for ages. My parents have bought her an expensive present (more than they normally spend) which is a key item for the hobby and are paying for 2/3 of the cost of it week by week.
dd knew this, and therefore she needed to come and just say thank you.

as I said my parents are very understanding of teens, and of dd's moods, and she could literally have grunted thank you and it would have been fine.

Well the new expensive hubby needs knocking in the head...
My dd 14 is hideous. And she knows her wish for a games console for Xmas just simply isn't happening. She ruined our holiday last month and I let rip. Really let rip.
Dd just 16 was similar but has Ben a reformed dc post holiday.. Age/hormone related with both I imagine but bad manners can be curbed and you do your dd no good paying out cash you can't afford with that behaviour.. Pandering and prancing round her moods isn't good.
Imo.

@iamme21

You say she may have undiagnosed ASC, was it a tantrum or an autistic meltdown (very different things) My DS Is 25 and autistic and can still have meltdowns if he becomes overwhelmed - not as often now but can still happen. You need to pursue the ASC pathway, if she is diagnosed it might give you better understanding of her behaviour. I feel your pain, I have been where you are, with 2 younger children and as a single parent. DS is lovely now!

yes I know. (we have autistic nephews and godson)

But in this case I am pretty sure it was teenage.
Not helped by a busy weekend, but we had factored in sat eve and all day sunday free, so that she had enough space to chill, before grandparents came round.
her birthday was last week, and when asked when woudl be a good time to see them, she basically said never. Didn't want to see them. I said that she needs to find an hour to see them, to say thank you for the gift etc.
She finally agreed on sunday afternoon, and then started to find reasons why it wasn't go to work.

I would love to get a diagnosis.

GP not interested. She doesn't even meet basic threshold for CAHMS and they will only go through CAHMS first.

She goes to grammar school and is coping and isn't suicidal and isn't having a breakdown, so they (GP) won't even begin any process.
School think she is doing fine (so much masking and collapsing at home, but she does 'cope' quite well at school)
But she hashad a few moments, so they agreed to assess her. Last year they did get an Ed Psych assessment. I had to fill in a form about my concerns, and it was all about autism.
The assessment was all just educational (how well she does with spelling etc) and surprise surprise, as she is at a grammar school, she came out within normal range for all.
They ran out of time to watch her in the classroom, and made no assessment of social skills etc despite that being the main issue.

I honestly don't know how to get any further.

@Pumpkinsonparade

Well the new expensive hubby needs knocking in the head... My dd 14 is hideous. And she knows her wish for a games console for Xmas just simply isn't happening. She ruined our holiday last month and I let rip. Really let rip. Dd just 16 was similar but has Ben a reformed dc post holiday.. Age/hormone related with both I imagine but bad manners can be curbed and you do your dd no good paying out cash you can't afford with that behaviour.. Pandering and prancing round her moods isn't good. Imo.

I see your point, but the whole reason for the hobby is her mental health. It really does make a massive difference.

Not the same as a games console

Don't know where you get the idea that she is pandered to or prancing round her moods.
As you can see, there were clear expectations that she needed to come and be nice to grandparents for an while. Grandparents are nice enough that they would take stroppiness in their stride, but the expectation from us was very clear, you need to make time for them, and come down and be with them long enough to eat cake, accept presents and say thank you.

My whole post is basically because she then threw a strop and didn't. Don't know how that is pandering.

I haven't said anything about the consequences or the out comes form yesterday. They will be there. We are not soft.

and letting rip is something I have done, and would not hesitate to do, if I thought for one minute that it would work, but I know that for dd, it makes not a blind bit of difference, if anything it drives her back into a corner. So I don't. I use other tactics. Shouting at her is pointless.

The issue is that it is so exhausting and draining and I feel at times I just don't know what to do with her next.

My dd has adhd and a variety of other behavioural issues, so I completely understand about the hobby. It's very easy for people to say 'cancel the hobby' but all that will do is ignite the situation and it won't 'teach' her anything. I think in your shoes I'd be encouraging her to apologise to your dm and why it's important. I'd also stress that without your dm she wouldn't have the equipment to do her new hobby. Sometimes it's a case of picking your moment to have the discussion.

I know with my dd, if I used punishment for bad behaviour, such as no horse riding (her hobby), it would have been WW3 and tbh it wouldn't have ever had the desired affect. We started to use positive, so ignore the bad and reward the good. But I still think your dm was correct in pulling her up on her rudeness. You still need boundaries. It's so difficult with teenagers because some behaviour is asd related and other is typical teenager

What I have done, which she doesn't yet know, is cancelled this weeks lesson, and she needs to apologise to my mum. Until she does, there are no more lessons. Mum's paying, so there is a clear link I feel, upset the person paying, they won't pay. You need to understand that people don't just through money at you.

As soon as she apologises, and thanks her for the gifts, then I will reinstate the lessons.

I am really reluctant to pull the lessons, as they really do matter to her, but I think at the moment she has lost sight of the fact that her behaviour impacts others. It has got worse over the last 6 months, she has loads of empathy for her friends, but not for others.

it is so hard to work out what is ASD and what is teenage.

Just sitting here trying to work, I realise just how much it upsets me. Maybe more because it was someone else she was rude to.
But whenever we have a weekend like this, I sit here on Monday morning feeling shell shocked.

*throw money

Having read your follow up posts, op, I think you’re doing the right thing.
I wish you much strength and conviction in the stand you’re taking, when it comes to informing your dd. I know from experience that sometimes hell hath no fury like a teenager thwarted, but it does pay off if you can stick to the given consequences. I wasn’t always so good at that…

Just an idea - would a proper (not just a scrawled note) written apology and expression of appreciative thanks be easier for your dd to manage? Only if you felt it would be acceptable to her grandparents (and you), of course.

It’s interesting that you say she has a boyfriend and empathy for her friends, so she can obviously be nice when she wants to. I agree with your mum, I would have been both hurt and horrified by her reaction. My granddaughter using foul language towards me would be totally unacceptable .I have had teenagers myself and have worked with them; this sort of behaviour is dreadful and having an undiagnosed possible SN is not an excuse. There needs to be consequences.

@HunkyPunk

Just an idea - would a proper (not just a scrawled note) written apology and expression of appreciative thanks be easier for your dd to manage? Only if you felt it would be acceptable to her grandparents (and you), of course.

my mum actually said she would like an apology in person, not a letter.

They live about 20 minutes drive away so it will need some co-ordination.

I htink she would find aletter easier. But I think she crossed a line here, so she doesn't necessarily get the easy option.

@angstridden2

It’s interesting that you say she has a boyfriend and empathy for her friends, so she can obviously be nice when she wants to. I agree with your mum, I would have been both hurt and horrified by her reaction. My granddaughter using foul language towards me would be totally unacceptable .I have had teenagers myself and have worked with them; this sort of behaviour is dreadful and having an undiagnosed possible SN is not an excuse. There needs to be consequences.

one thing I have noticed over the last few months is that she is really caring towards her friends etc but less and less inclined to do the right thing with family.

I suspect she asks friends and they all tell her she is justified in feeling angry/hurt and her Granny is awful etc, so she thinks it is ok.

Is it just your parents she is like this with?
I only ask because I saw similar with my nephews and PIL. They live next door, all very 'close', heavily involved in their upbringing. Always there in the background at school functions, every social occasion.
All very cosy when they were young, but my PIL didn't seem to know when to back off and when teens became a source of frustration, disdain and dare I say amusement for my nephews. It really wasn't nice to see. The culmination of overinvolvement over the years I suspect.
Your parents don't sound like they've done anything wrong tbh but all sounds very familiar. One of my nephews is suspected ASD too.

I have got a very similar situation with my 15 year old OP. She is absolutely vile to me at every turn, also saw CAHMS for a while (she didn't engage). Also suspected ASD, also at an academic school.

I've got COVID and am quite poorly today, she spent most of yesterday screeching at me because I might ruin her weekend away with her Dad (by giving it to her when I 'insisted' on a hug one morning last week).

I hate being a mother to a vile teenager, there, I've said it.

@cptartapp

Is it just your parents she is like this with? I only ask because I saw similar with my nephews and PIL. They live next door, all very 'close', heavily involved in their upbringing. Always there in the background at school functions, every social occasion. All very cosy when they were young, but my PIL didn't seem to know when to back off and when teens became a source of frustration, disdain and dare I say amusement for my nephews. It really wasn't nice to see. The culmination of overinvolvement over the years I suspect. Your parents don't sound like they've done anything wrong tbh but all sounds very familiar. One of my nephews is suspected ASD too.

not, not similar at all.

@Etching

I have got a very similar situation with my 15 year old OP. She is absolutely vile to me at every turn, also saw CAHMS for a while (she didn't engage). Also suspected ASD, also at an academic school.

I've got COVID and am quite poorly today, she spent most of yesterday screeching at me because I might ruin her weekend away with her Dad (by giving it to her when I 'insisted' on a hug one morning last week).

I hate being a mother to a vile teenager, there, I've said it.

thank you.

This thread is not really what I intended.

I posted because it makes me feel so low, my whole day has been overtaken by this low level stress. When she got home from school, I found myself holding my breath.

What I wanted from this thread was really - anyone else just feel crap and stressed parenting a teenager?

I hate it, I can't wait until the next 2-3 years are over as my older two are now both lovely, ages 16-17 seem to be when they come out of the otherside, a whole new beginning.

My biggest fear is that she won't grow through it , that some of this is the ASD and she will always have this side to her.

teenagers are so. bloody. selfish.
So, bloody self centred.

I would imagine the source of the problem here was the 'expectation'... I suspect I have Asd as my son had been diagnosed and I can see a similarity in our stubbornness and how easily irritated we can get just by having an 'expectation' put on us, sometimes even if it's an enjoyable expectation... But it still creates a rise in expectation and anxiety.
I can see it from both sides as I find it incredibly hard to deal with my sons stubborn side, but equally I've been there as a teen and young adult and remember that inner rage and anxiety well, but I didn't understand where it was coming from back then.
I didn't have a great relationship with my Mum until I had my own children as I just couldn't handle that parent roll of her trying to control/parent but it did get better when I moved out at 17 and could have my own space.
I can now see I was difficult to live with but equally it was difficult to live with someone telling me what to do when I felt I knew best, or I just wasn't in the mood to do what was being asked of me!
Can you ask Dd to think of a way to thank her grandmother and apologise at the same time.. Perhaps a thank you card and chocolate bar saying she appreciates her gift... Saying sorry for alot of kids with Asd is hard, especially if in their mind it's a lie because they don't actually 'feel' sorry if they still feel mad about the situation

I have a DD 15 with ASD and she acts like this. I think she is demand-avoidant. I don’t know if she would have acted like your DD in this situation but have been in similar situations.

I too feel exhausted by teasing out the difference between what is being a teenager, what is autism and what is being a teenager with autism. I also wonder if she will always struggle with demands and how much ‘give’ and flexibility she needs from the people around her.

But she does need it. She is lovely and difficult all at the same time.

I don’t parent her like I would an NT child. I don’t get cross, I don’t punish. We inch forward in as calm and thoughtful a way as we can. When things like that happen, I think about ways it could have been avoided and try to avoid them in a similar situation. When the heat has gone out of it, I ask her what she thinks of what happened and are there ways to get ahead of it next time?

Your parents don’t understand if they won’t accept a letter in lieu of an in person apology. I think your DD must have demands coming out of her ears if she’s managing an academic school as well. My DD couldn’t cope with secondary after flying through primary. She had a breakdown and is homeschooled now.

Sorry, I can’t see that this girl has any cause to be ‘mad about this situation’.Her grandmother has been really generous in offering to pay for something her granddaughter really wants to do.what has she got to be mad about? When this kind of behaviour happens with teenagers I have often noticed that they don’t dish it out to friends who would just ditch them.

I share your worries, all of them OP. Even down to the holding your breath when she comes home from school and worrying that she won’t move past it.

, it isn’t how I imagined it would be, I know from my siblings that her behaviour is unusual.

It’s very wearing.

when it is her friends, she has bags of time, compassion and socila energy.
But if she doesn't want to zero.

I do get it that some of this is ASD, but there is just no willingness to be nice. No willingness to try. Not even in order to get what she wants!
it is heartbreaking, and I am tired of it.

Have you thought about seeing someone like a psychologist who works with teenagers with ASD? They might be able to help you fit your DD’s behaviour into a bigger picture so it feels less exhausting.

I saw one who was able to help me put some things into perspective. For example DD lives in the present. This means it’s hard to learn from past behaviour (which can be very annoying as a parent) because she forgets what’s happened before. It’s also why reward or punishment don’t work with her. The psychologist was able to talk in general about similar experiences for other parents. It made it easier to deal with my frustration even though it didn’t solve it.