Moody teen - am I being too controlling?

[worriedmum20000]

My eldest DS,15, seems to be permanently moody and angry and I'm wondering whether we are being too heavy on him and whether relaxing some of our rules might make for a better atmosphere at home. To give you an idea of what we expect of him:

Daily - make his bed, open the curtains, clear up after himself (dirty clothes in the basket, wet towel off the floor, breakfast stuff in the dishwasher etc) thankfully he's pretty good on personal hygiene so no battle there. Occasionally we might ask him to help with dinner or unstack the dishwasher but not often - once, maybe twice a week,

School nights gadgets downstairs by 9:30pm (he can still watch tv with us) and in bed by 10pm. He can read for a bit but chooses not to and is a bugger to get up in the morning so bit loathe to change this but open to change.

Homework - big battle area as he's very workshy/lazy and spends most of his homework time on social media or gaming pretending to work so we now say homework to be done downstairs (he's not got a desk upstairs so it used to be lying on his bed or similar), minimum 1 hour on a weekday (school are 3 x 45 mins but there's no way he'll do that much) and preferably finished before dinner usually c.7/7:30pm but not essential and definite 2 hours on a Sunday morning. He's year 11 btw and does want to do A levels and is very borderline passing his GCSEs so I'm not pushing for 8/9's just enough to get him to the next stage.

Freedom - he does a lot of sport which we drive him around to and pay for but if he wants to go and see a friend that's fine if he's done his homework and not particularly strict on weekend bedtimes or curfews and if he wants to stay upon all night on his phone as long as he's not vile the next day we try and let it go.

He has a job so has money and enjoys spending on gadgets and stuff which of course is his money his choice so I guess looking at it written down, it's just homework and tech time that we're constantly arguing over. When does it get easier? Any suggestions or words of wisdom from those out the other side? If doesn't help that DH and I do differ on how strict we are - I'm in the 'this is parenting and tough if he doesn't like our rules, he's a child and needs our guidance' camp whereas DH is more 'leave him to make his own mistakes and he'll soon figure it out or deal with the repercussions'

I agree that he's too old for you to be dragging him out of bed in the mornings. He needs to set an alarm and take responsibility.

I think maybe focus on the homework and try to stop nagging him about anything else?

@worriedmum20000

Ok so too much micromanagement going on (exact words my DH used so definitely something I need to address as I am prone to this in other areas too).

Homework is a bit of a battle between dh & I - I don't want DS to fail and think what he is doing is actually very little and his school reports support this, but, sometimes even getting him sat down doesn't guarantee he's actually working and DH is of the mind that if he doesn't pass on his head be it. I wouldn't care if he did a couple of hours one night and none the next but if left to his own devices he just doesn't do it hence the timetable. I could compromise and say keep the weekend block but weekdays you manage your own homework (and grit my teeth when he sits on the XBox for 3 hours and then dashes off 15 minutes of shoddy homework.)

Gadgets and bedtime I could relax on a bit too - leave him with his tech until bedtime and not be on at him on the dot of 10pm. My misguided idea of a break from tech before bedtime was in the hope he'd come downstairs and chat, engage a bit but clearly he's not interested when he's constantly feeling im getting at him and he's so angry. He said last night he hates living here which made me sad

@spondoolikay you are spot on about not connecting on an emotional level and this is what I want to change. Will look at the recommended reading.

Teens naturally don't want to spend time with thier parents. It's normal. And unfoirtanekty enforcing g stricter rules will make him resent you. We had the same with dsc back last year, they kept saying they would rather life with dad and me and she is to strict. Obviously we ahot it down and told them they needed to respect thier mum. But it all seemed from the fact that phones had to be handed in downstairs early but that's when they wanted to communicate with thier friends, and she tried to micromanage everything and sometimes they just wanted to be lazy teens.

Home work is tricky my q5 year old ds would t do it if I did t make him. I do make him come downstairs because he gets distracted in his room. And he does 3 nights a week and some art catch uo on weekends. However this isn't strict, you need to also rember that forcing someone to do work will also produce poor results and wont be any more efficient that his slack 15 mins.

Hopefully easing up on him may make him more willing to do his homework.

So my advice would be give him his phone and let him keep it, don't set aurbutory bed times (imagine someone trying to force you to go to bed when you aint tired, it's bloody torture just laying there) but obviously he also can't take the piss and stay up all night. And make him be in charge of his own getting up and being where he needs to be on time. He really will learn his lesson when he has been late a few times.

He needs to do homework, but me less rigorous about the time table, just have a casual chat each day to see what he gas to do, what he is behind on and take it from there.

I think your rules are perhaps towards the stricter end of things but only slightly. My DS the same age doesn't have to bring his phone down so early or go to bed at that time but we all have different approaches.

Do you find that you're always talking to him about the next thing he has to do- have you done your homework? have you tidied your room? etc etc. It's really easy to fall into and what feels to you like reasonable enquiries to keep him on track can feel to them like nagging. Also really important to say nice things and not have every interaction be you being on his case. I found my relationship with DS improved a lot when I learned to fight the urge to ask him about homework every time I saw him on his Xbox. Now I force myself to say things like "how's the game going?" and not mention homework at all, or only occasionally, and actually just as much homework is getting done.

I agree with others that he has a lot on with school, GCSE revision, sport, socialising and a job.

Also maybe some more fun stuff together- takeaway and a film on the sofa?

As a 4 times survivor I'd say pick your battles. The world won't stop if he doesn't make the bed, if he doesn't put his clothes in the basket they don't get washed. Natural consequences are good and next time he hasn't got clean jeans or he has to go to football in a dirty kit he'll be upset but he will realise that matters. Wet towels yes that's a battle I'd pick.

Homework can be tough, I had the full spectrum from the one who did more than needed to the one who would spend 2 hrs arguing about doing 30 mins homework. Has he got mocks coming up? Maybe let him get a scare and then he'll hopefully realise he needs to work.

Screen time was less of an issue when mine were young so no advice on that one.

When does it get easier? Never, your mum will still be worrying about you now and you will be the same, well that goes for me and everyone I know. Sorry I know that is depressing but at least they don't have homework forever.

Good luck.

I could never ever get my DD to do any homework. Thought she was going to bomb her GCSES and A levels. Surprised us with 9 GCSEs and A* BB at A level, in spite of giving the impression of doing literally no work at home. She sort of did it in secret which was weird, but I gave up trying to make her do anything. She did ok. I say let them go their own way..

I would agree to him keeping the job, it sounds great for him.

Regarding bedtimes and homework, that is where you are quite rigid and that bedtime sounds far too early. I would have an adult conversation with him about it. Start by saying that you think it's time to renegotiate bedtimes and homework. You explain your views, he explains his and you come to an agreement about how things will be, bearing in mind that he should really be "putting himself to bed" by this age, but you can establish guidelines. This can and should be reviewed regularly as they grow up.

Explain that if his school work suffers or he gets grumpy with tiredness then bedtimes may need to be adjusted again.

Above all, involve him in the decision making. Let him understand your arguments, and REALLY listen to his point of view and his wishes.

If you want to connect more emotionally, try to get involved in something he likes to do, or at least take an interest.

Good luck.

OP what are sanctions from school about homework not done? Maybe you should let him suffer the consequences.

Definitely relax over bedtime and screen time. 15 is too old for a bedtime, we need to encourage them to start taking responsibility for themselves when to go to bed. Teens generally have very late body clocks. We have battles over bed with my 14.5 year old dd, she goes to bed very late. I have 2 older dds (20 and nearly 19) who remind me that lots of teens don’t have good sleep habits but it does come eventually with maturity.

Screens off at 9.30 is way too early for his age. Apart from chatting with friends on SM etc, my dd needs her laptop for school work and her phone for discussing homework if needed.

Yes very normal for teens not to want to sit with you, my dd hardly ever does. They do come back eventually.

@NeonShortsInWinter what's the grade curve?

@bendmeoverbackwards unfortunately very few repercussions at school for not doing homework . We started off letting him deal with the fallout but there don't seem to be any which is when I took a tougher stance at home.

@Cissyandflora

People can be so bloody rude on here. I’d love to ask for advice here about my teen. I’m struggling terribly but I know there’d be plenty of ‘chill the f out’ type of wallys replying.

@ci

Just roll your eyes & ignore them! You can't argue with stupid-or rude! You'll get plenty of good advice as well!

I agree with your DH re. the homework and letting him make his choices and then live with the consequences. It seems really harsh, but it has to happen at some point. Otherwise in 2 years time you'll be in the same place (he isn't doing the work) but with A levels. Then he'll go to uni and you'll be worrying that he isn't going to cope there. It's better that he makes the mistakes now, than later imo.

I would try and make a plan with him, as a team rather than you telling him what to do. So, if he's facing failing his exams look up what his next choices would be. Does he want to resit a year while all his friends go to college? Do an apprenticeship? Get a job? Discuss how he can make the grades he needs, maybe that means neglecting the less important subjects? Maybe he doesn't do his RE homework at all, but spends the extra time on maths/English etc. Try and approach it like you would at work/as an adult rather than the sometimes quite arbitrary approach of school.

I think the job sounds good for him - day outside, fresh air, no screens, learning to work/responsibility, interacting with adults in a different way, but if independence, but if money. It's not like he's down a mine 6 days a week!!

I think bedtime for a 15 year old is a bit much, but as you have one one, I'd keep it forever now & say that when he can get himself up & out on time 'by himself & without a cob on' he can choose when he goes to bed.

I think you are more right than your DH though because they're still kids & learning to be adult/responsible for themselves and I see it as a time if their lives where it's easy to fuck up their future by living in a teen bubble. Though it pays to talk & listen about what they want for their future & help them try to get that.

If HE WANTS to do A levels, then 'DS you may resent being asked to revise/study now, but if you want to do A levels you can't coast through this year.'

My Dad was very involved/interested in my studying/homework etc & I resented it a bit at the time, especially if he said 'Do it again, that's not your best work' (I felt he was treating me like a child) but later on I came to appreciate the things it taught me.

My Dad & I clashed, because we were so similar, but I felt loved & I loved him snd I miss him every day. There's nothing wrong with actually parenting your children & not just being their friend.

I think what some people are missing this year is that homework, mocks etc are more significant as centre assessed grades haven't been entirely ruled out. So sustained effort is unfortunately important for Yr 11's this year. In the past we all might have said 'let them do badly in the mocks, it'll teach them a lesson and they'll pull their socks up for the real thing'. It will be a risk to do that this year.

I am with you on this one as it sounds like he is slipping. My ds is a gamer too and it accounts for 90% of the arguments. No sign of being able to self regulate unfortunately so we do have to set firm boundaries still. Gaming for two hours max week day nights - one hour as soon as he gets in whilst tea is cooking then another hour around 9-10 once homework is done. Phone downstairs at 10pmish and he's usually asleep by 11pm. I think yours is doing well to have a job and I'd encourage him to keep that as it will have advantages in the future.
Maybe discuss booster classes with him if he's willing.

There is a supportive group on the Secondary Education board. I'll post the link if you want to join us.

@Helpimfalling

Wow I wouldn't think 15 would still have gadgets down stairs by 9.30 bed time by ten rule.

I would be letting them manage that themselves by 15.

I speak as a mother of three teens.

I agree. Far too strict.

Current Year 11 2021/2022 support thread pt II www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/4301269-Current-Year-11-2021-2022-support-thread-pt-II

@worriedmum20000 a grade curve is best described as grade boundaries. These change every year for GCSEs and A levels to reflect how well the cohort (all the students taking the exams) perform whether they as a group do really well or really badly.

So instead of having a set boundary, say 50% gets you a grade 5 or 40% gets a grade 4 they look at the marks after everyone has taken the test and see where the majority lie, the average and grade off that. It is often represented as a bell curve going up in the middle.

An example for you OCR maths paper 4 (higher paper) out of a score of 100 to get a 9 you needed
87 in 2018 but
91 in 2019

So if you scored 89 in 2018 you were awarded a 9 but in 2019 that was an 8. It works at the other end too.

Same subject, same exam board on paper 1 (foundation) to get a 4 or a pass
53 in 2018
49 in 2019

52 or below in 2018 sees you with a grade 3 or lower and a "fail" which means you resit in November or over the next 2 years trying to pass maths. 52 in 2019 sees you pass. It is always moving to reflect the ability of the students across the country.

School are telling you he is borderline now, you don't know how he will stack up against the rest of the country when he sits the exams. Ds's school is an ordinary state school they did full online learning in lockdown meaning that they finished all the combined science content before the end of year 10. They are spending year 11 revising and perfecting answering exam questions. Your son is also competing against students from all across the country on an unfair playing field. As a very broad rule of thumb your GCSE grade translates into a one grade drop for A level. If you get a 4 at GCSE you are likely to get a D at A level.

Far too much micromanaging for a 15 year old.

He must feel suffocated by it all.

And honestly the bedtime routine is ridiculous for a lad his age.

Leave him be, and start treating him like the near adult he is.

Parent the child you have. One of mine definitely needed phone control as he used to stay up almost all night. I was told on here that I should let him be late for school, and suffer the consequences, but he would have been happy with that. From June, though, you will need a different understanding,, because otherwise he may flake over his A levels.

Remember that whilst most people mean well, at least some of the advice you get here will be from people without children, or babies and toddlers only.

How would he respond if you had a "grown up" chat with him explaining that at the moment his gcses are really important which is why you insist on doing the homework, getting enough sleep etc. but you do understand he is getting older so explain that as long as he gets his head down for a few months he will have a very long summer holiday where you'll allow him a lot more freedom.

Explain how embarrassing it would have to be to resit his gcses when his friends are in college or how much harder it will be to be taking a levels and gcse resits at the same time.

Maybe try having a day or two where you don't limit game time or he can have a later bedtime, e.g. on a Thursday where if he's tired there's only one day to go?

The housework he's doing sounds like the absolute bare minimum so I wouldn't cut back on that,particularly as his exams etc are only going to get more important so would be hard to introduce back if you let him off them now and then you'll end up with a 25 year old still living with you and doing nothing at all round the house (see millions of threads on mn)

So, we had a big chat about me letting go and not being so controlling and allowing him to manage his own time more but if I did give him more freedom, in return the anger and rudeness needed to stop. He's been setting his own bedtime & has been allowed his phone in his room and I've ignored the fact he's been online until well past midnight some nights. All has been going ok until tonight when he asked if he could have a sleepover next week and I said not next week as he has his mocks on mo day and he erupted into a massive tantrum culminating in calling me a fucking joke I told him I wasn't auguring and left him to do his homework play on YouTube but at bedtime took away his tech as he hadn't kept his end of the deal. And so were back to square one

*eta I told him he could draw a line under it and have it back tomorrow if he drew a line under it and let the anger go. We shall see.

(Apologise for the typos I'm upset and angry and don't know where to go from here )

I mean…. calling you a fucking joke is completely unacceptable on every single level I can think of!

I am inspired by you in a good way!

This all sounds fine, OP. Having a row and him being rude is pretty normal (not acceptable but not a sign of things going wrong- it’s normal for teenagers to push against boundaries). Tomorrow make your points, but don’t dwell. Changes take time.