How do you help someone that won’t accept help?

[MummyInTheNecropolis]

My DD is 15 and has had mental health problems for around 3 years. She self harms and has attempted suicide 3 times, each time bad enough to need hospitalisation. She is a school refuser, her school are amazing and have tried everything but nothing works. We have had social services involved as well as CAMHS referrals and numerous GP visits. She is clearly in need of help but she just refused to engage with anybody. Won’t talk to CAMHS or social care, won’t go to counselling or therapy, won’t even talk to me much.

She has recently been dabbling in alcohol and illegal drugs, she doesn’t listen to a word I say and won’t follow any rules or boundaries.

We are just home after a week in hospital after her most recent suicide attempt where she went out and bought a bag of pills from a dealer, took them all and cut herself all over. Whilst in hospital I refused to take her home until I was offered proper help as I really don’t feel like I can keep her safe at home. After several meetings with the whole team involved (social care, camhs, hospital staff, safeguarding team and school,) we were eventually promised lots of support including home visits and the promise that they would try to find one person DD could connect with who would continue trying to engage her. After one home visit from CAMHS, DD told them that she hated them, would never speak to them and did not want any more visits, they agreed not to come again. Social care and school have also done home visits, DD refused to come out of her room and wouldn’t speak to any of them.

For 3 years I have been told that the only way she can be helped is if she engages but she just won’t, I’ve tried everything. Now after just a few days at home I can feel the support being lost again, and I am on my own. I’m a single parent with no family support and I just can’t cope on my own.

Has anyone here ever found a way to get someone to engage in services when they’ve been dead set against it? If I don’t do something soon she is going to die and I am terrified.

Do you have any other family members or friends that your daughter respects, or would listen to? Would they be able to try talking to her? What kind of social circle does your daughter have? Does she mix with dubious people? The company she keeps may be part of the problem and thats a tough one to crack, as you would need to get her away from the dubious influences. Is there a youth based mental health group that may appeal to her, if folk are nearer her own age that attend.Is there anything your daughter really enjoys doing, that you could get her involved in like a sport or group of some kind?

I really feel for you and your situation, don't give up hope, its so difficult when you want someone to engage and they literally refuse & switch off. I don't have the answers and I hope you can find help. Hope maybe somebody like a health professional will read this and can provide some ideas for you. Could you have carers providing some respite for you maybe so you are not shouldering all the responsibility. You sound like you have spoken with all the right people. Wish I could be more help.

She no longer has any hobbies or interests, won’t consider joining any groups and has cut off everybody that cares about her. She just seems determined to self destruct 😞. She used to love art and is really talented at is but stopped doing it a while ago. I always thought art therapy would be perfect for her but she won’t even consider it.

Does anyone have any other ideas or experiences?

I wish I could say the magic answer.

My gut feeling is you switch to focusing on what you can do rather than what you can't do..

You can be someone who listens to her problems. And encourages her to share.

You can be someone honest enough to point out to her any bad decisions she made, even when she doesn't want to hear them.

You can go to extremes when she is in immediate physical danger (like call the police if you thought they needed to be involved)

As her support person, you have an overriding duty to look after your own mental health. That means you don't have to feel hugely guilty you can't fix her. It's ok if you are feeling resigned or like you've done all you can. You're only obliged to be available and try to help.

She's not allowed to abuse you, either.

Hang in there. x

Thank you @lljkk that message is more helpful than you could imagine

Glad it was helpful. x

Hi
I just wanted to say I’m a single mother of a 17 year old and have had some real ups and downs. I have so much respect for what you’re coping with. It’s gut wrenching at times.
I wrote a long reply which has deleted!! So am writing again but a bit more brief...
Is it possible she needs antidepressants? Has this been discussed? There is an app called clear fear which is like CBT but saves actually engaging with health professionals as it’s all on the phone. My daughter used this.
Staying calm in front of her is so important, building that communication - maybe watch music videos on YouTube of her favourite bands, bake something, go for a drive and let her choose the music, anything to start conversation. Maybe as this builds she may start to confide her worries. Key thing is to stay calm and be her rock whatever she says. Really listen to her and don’t judge and don’t panic whatever she says. Don’t rush this level of conversation though , it may take a while to develop. I still watch marvel movies with my daughter to keep communication going about non heavy stuff. Then when she needs me she unburdens - and I’m left worrying and she feels better!!
Finally look after yourself in anyway you can and don’t be harsh on yourself. 15 is such a difficult age - 17 has certainly got a bit better. I wish you so much luck and strength - you will get through this and it will get better - take care x

Thank you @Lilactimes, she was prescribed antidepressants by the GP but only took them for a week and then refused any more. She seems like she’s desperately crying out for help but then refuses any help that is offered.

I will definitely look at that app you recommended. We do generally have a pretty good relationship, we have some programmes that we always watch together, we listen to music, we chat about everything from politics to celeb gossip, but she just seems to struggle to talk about her feelings. I will keep going of course, and keep communicating and just hope that eventually she will begin to open up a bit more.

Oh and it’s funny that you mentioned baking and music - only a couple of hours ago we baked banana bread together while listening to her favourite music on YouTube! So I guess I am at least getting some things right

That’s so good you are already communicating well. Don’t understand estimate the power of that to her. And really keep it up and read as much as you can in best ways to listen. There’s a book called Untangled which is great. It’s on bringing up teenage girls.
I’m a big believer also in good physical health, eating well helps the brain. I also gave my daughter a good tonic and HTP5 tablets - they’re a natural seratonin. She’s taken them off and in for years. They really help her as does eating healthily. Now she’s older she has learned this herself but at 15 I pushed her into this more - but the good bond we had helped her trust me.
Is there anything bothering her about her appearance? My daughter’s worries were kicked off by acne and bad periods. You would be surprised how appearance can make huge changes in mood at 14 - 15 . Again if there’s anything like that you can discuss a proactive solution to, this may help her..
my daughter went on the pill at 15 and this also evened out her moods. Can you track when she’s feeling bad in relation to her cycle?? Maybe her really low moods are in the lead up to her period?
I am sure things will improve - anything proactive you can try will help her. But don’t be surprised if she doesn’t want to, or pushes back, but this is when her trust in you and that good bond helps.
If she’s been prescribed antidepressants she should take them - and a friend of mine’s son has had a miraculous recovery in them but it took months and months. Again talking to her in a calm way about revisiting them and trying again may also be worth doing?

You are getting things right - you care about her and are sick with worry. Keep creating that cocoon of love around her - listen to that music, bake stuff... you have got this. Xxx

Has she been assessed for ASD?
She sounds very similar to my dd who had major problems in year 10 age 14/15. She had late diagnoses of ADHD and ASD at 15 and 16.

Look into the PDA profile of autism and its links to anxiety and how girls mask.
I appreciate the assessment process is difficult though with non engagement.

I think it is important to realise it is often 'can't' engage rather than 'won't.' Camhs are too quick to discharge on these grounds. It is their job to enable her to engage. That said the mere mention of the word CAMHs has dd in a frenzy and she will not entertain them. She is 17 now, she still has difficulties but is in a much better place. Her ASD is quite obvious now unlike at 15 and I think this is as she no longer feels the need to mask as much.

What helped us was lovebombing, therapeutic parenting and every day is a fresh start.
I reduced all demands as dd is very demand avoidant. We were lucky that school were very understanding over attendance.

We also had risky behaviour. What helped was although she knew I did not approve of her drinking, I assured her she would not be in trouble if she drank as long as she came home or rang me to pick her up. I needed her to know that if she was ever in trouble she could call and I would help her. Yes there would have to be a discussion about what happened and why, but the telling off, groundings and punishments were taken out of the equation and this really helped.
We have a fantastic relationship now and she tells me everything. She also rarely goes out and rarely drinks apart from the odd glass of wine with me.
I would send messages saying I loved her and to text if she needed anything. I know this goes against conventional parenting but when you get to this level of behaviour keeping them safe is the priority. I had to make sure she wanted to come home. And she wouldn't if she knew she would be in trouble. I stopped trying to ground her although sometimes I 'had to keep her in for her own safety' which she happily accepted as it wasn't done punitively.

Try and look after yourself too, parenting a child like this is so stressful. I have chronic health problems which I am certain were brought on by the stress of it all.

Thanks @Foobydoo, I have read a lot about ASD and definitely think my DD could have it, I’ve thought it for a long time but as she won’t see any professionals or attend any appointments, it’s impossible to get her assessed.

My DD is also struggling with similar issues, and talking about how she's feeling is one of the bigger issues. I think it's so difficult for her to put it into words because she doesn't really understand it herself.

Now, when she's feeling overwhelmed, depressed or whatever, we can message on WhatsApp instead of talking in person. Even then, sometimes she'll only send memes, and I'll have to figure out what she's trying to say, but it can take away the pressure of trying to describe what she's feeling.

My dad will also take her out to plant seeds, and do garden things. I'm not green-fingered, but they both are. He doesn't really talk about anything in particular with her when they're doing this, but it's out of the house, and a new interest. It's also been good for me, as it's not all on me, iyswim. It's someone else who is there, and if she wants to, she can talk to him. She generally doesn't talk to him about any heavy topics, but the option is there.

PDA came to mind or ODD. I recon you need to see someone who can assess her

Boys and girls with autism are very different. Girls with autism can mask, seeming on the surface to mimic those around them. Over the years this has meant that girls have gone through their childhood undiagnosed.

Hi op, mental health professional here what you are doing sounds amazing.

I believe the reason she wants to avoid professional agencies and services is because they force her to dwell on what is wrong and sad for her and she does want to confront or dwell on any of that as it gives her enough distress.

My advice would be as another poster has pointed out which is to do everything possible to raise your own MH first, as they say in airplanes, put your own oxygen mask on first before helping others.

It can also help to confront the worst case scenario and while being at peace with it would be hard, it should help you understand that it is important that your life must go on and be a role model to inspire her rather than consuming you with dread and guilt.

Smiling, finding funny video clips to share, finding someone with a puppy or a kitten who could bring round to show her, asking her if she wanted to walk a friend's dog or asking her if she would like to help out at your local Riding for Disabled, these are often things that girls of your dd's age would be interested in.

The important thing is to have fun, do amusing things, tell her amusing stories, and go out and about as much as you can but don't force her to go with you.

If she likes gardening, get her her own pretty gardening gloves or packet of seeds or watering can, may be take her to a garden centre or go yourself and tell her about it hopefully to plant a seed in her head to perhaps go next time. No pressure.

Peruse recipe books together, give her some say over what the family eats , ask her for help in little ways to engage her, see if she would like to foster a dog ( obviously don't take on anything you can't manage), go to the beach or offer to buy her some new clothes etc.

The important thing is for life to go on for you op, be her inspiration. Good luck.

Looks like a good post from NewStarontheHorizon. I just wanted to offer you a handhold, OP. Poor you and your poor DD.

I hope you're able to get to the bottom of whatever has triggered this in your daughter and find some bright spots on the horizon in the meantime. It must be terrible for both of you.

@Saltyslug - that’s the whole point - she won’t see anybody that could assess her

@Newstaronhorizon - thank you. I have had my own mental health struggles in the past so I am being careful to make sure that I have at least an hour a day for myself, to listen to music or a podcast, have a soak in the bath etc while DD is occupied with something else. It is working. I am meeting a friend today, just for an hour or two close to home so that I can talk about everything. DD will be with her friend at the same time.
I am trying to make sure that DD and I also have lots of nice things to do together. She doesn’t want to go out anywhere at the moment, and we live in a flat so no garden unfortunately. However, we are cooking and baking together, watching films, listening to music and despite everything, we do have lots of laughs together. I will keep going with this and keep gently suggesting small local outings in the hope she might feel like it one day.

@MissAmericana - thank you for your message. The support on here is definitely helping

Sorry, I missed out @Ffs2020 - I am sorry to hear that you are going through similar, it is so hard. I really like the suggestion of using WhatsApp to communicate, my DD is definitely more likely to talk about her feelings through messages than in person. I think it takes the pressure off a bit. I will give it a go, thank you.

What an absolute nightmare, I'm so sorry you are going through this. I this is probably not the most practical advise now, maybe pre and post covid but I'd take her overseas on holiday to somewhere where it's beautiful but a significant amount of poverty. So change of scene, more sun, lots if natural beauty but also to see how many ppl with much less get on with their lives. My friend did this to her daughter who had an eatting disorder and cutting problem. And the issues nearly resolved overnight and the girl found interest in traveling and helping others and the world beyond her own head. I'm sure it won't work for every case but I thought to myself if my kid ever was going through some big stuff I'd do that too even if i had to sell the house to do it. Like I said not great advise for covid times. But I truly help you find what works but as you know it's hard to help someone who won't help themselves, try speaking to someone alone to help you as well. X

@MsMeNz thank you but I really don’t think seeing other people suffer will help. DD is not selfish or self centred, she is mentally ill. She is well aware that there is suffering in the world, that doesn’t change her mental state, she isn’t choosing to feel the way she feels.

Not to mention the fact that I can’t afford holidays abroad anyway, I’m a single parent on a low wage. I don’t even have a house to sell.

Sorry @MsMe but that is not usually recommended because holidays often give a big high but coming home again often leads to a deeper low than you started with so unfortunately can and often backfires.

I too have had struggles with teenagers who won’t or can’t be helped , I am not a single parent , but am the main carer. In my case I have a very academically able ds who in retrospect definitely had been and still is as an adult masking , it’s heartbreaking and so hard to see them self destructing. Luckily he is doing pretty well at the moment.

Can I say that I think you are doing amazingly well and your dd is very lucky to have such a lovely mum but it is also true that you need to look after yourself as well.

If your dd is arty would she consider other crafts as well, maybe something new where there are no expectations ( unlike art where she feels an expectation to be good and possibly perfectionism) for example knitting, cross stitch or embroidery. It sounds mad but they are all activities which absorb and calm the mind . I struggle with anxiety and find that knitting which is repetitive but nevertheless needs concentration stills my mind and soothe the anxiety. I have friends who have done cross stitch with their teenage girls who are struggling and they have found it surprisingly bonding and have managed some difficult conversations whilst stitching.