Support to limit screens parents during lockdown

[stilllovingmysleep]

Does anyone want to join me? I have been reading through many posts here on MN about life for our tweens and teens during lockdown.

In fact I came back to MN which I used to frequent in the past regularly to find ideas for these issues.

I am looking for other parents to offer and receive support so that we can take small steps together, with a lightness of touch ideally and maintaining our humour, to start putting some limits on those screens during lockdown and help our children. I despair with how pale and unmotivated my DS (12.5) is these days -and I can't blame it all on the lockdown. It's the combination of lockdown and screens.

I wrote my thoughts on this in another thread and I will quote so as not to rewrite. Anyway open for discussion / sharing of ideas?

Here is what I had originally wrote in another thread and I'm putting it here so that we can all think together what small changes we can make rather than just struggle alone.

It is of course a horrid situation at the moment. God knows I've been struggling too; in all the ways you deceive, as has DS 12.5 who can't be dragged off his phone and computer and looks pale and unmotivated.

But I think we have as parents 2 separate problems.

The first is the pandemic. It's tragic and horrendous. However it's not the first pandemic in history and I wonder if we and our children keep that in mind enough? Remember polio (iron lungs), tuberculosis and of course Spanish flu with strict quarantines. I think some perspective and resilience are important and these conversations need to be happening. All this situation is not just random to "fail" children. It's because of the pandemic. (Though don't get me started on the government's failures on schools)...

But the second issue we seem to be having as parents (me one or them!) Is ultimately being able to limit our children's screen use. What are we scared of? I ask myself and I ask you. Children are not meant to be talking to friends on their phone at night. They are meant to be sleeping and learning to live with their boredom and bad feelings.

We know these devices are addictive, we also know and can see at the moment the effect they are having on our children. They are all pale, unmotivated and hardly go out. And can't deal with boredom. I wonder if part of it is of course the pandemic itself but part of it that we as parents are at a loss for what to do?

I say this both as a parents and a CAMHS clinician working day in day out with teenagers. I spend my life helping them learn to know their feelings and tolerate them. And be more resilient. I don't spend my working life thinking "how do I take all pressure off them? Poor them?" That wouldn't help them.

Yet with my own DS, due to my own exhaustion and low mood with the pandemic, I'm allowing a routine that is clearly not good for him.

I wonder if we could have a separate thread for parents of late tweens and teens trying to take some small steps together, as parents, to limit screens? Not massive bossy changes but step by step implementation and learn from each other?

Surely our current situation shows us what is going on is not healthy for our kids in any way. Not because of the lockdown itself- tragic as it is. But because given their addiction to screens, they are not learning the valuable lesson the lockdown inevitably offers- how to deal with difficult situations and manage.

I completely get what you're saying. I'm concerned about my 12 y/o's screen time. But talking about teaching them how to cope with difficult situations and manage. Well, that's what they're doing. Before this lockdown DS was at school all day then perhaps some sports after school and then after homework etc he'd be on his phone/Xbox. Weekends we'd spend visiting family or having day trips. Right now it is cold and miserable out. There are only so many walks I can expect him to go on when it's pouring with rain. His only chance for interaction with his peers is via screens. His whole school day is on a a screen. This is how he's getting though this.

DS has to leave his phone in the kitchen overnight on charge from 9pm. Has to take regular breaks and make sure there's some reading or exercise thrown in during the day. What would your suggestions be?

@FallenSky as a parent I'm not even managing that for my DS- regular exercise and some reading time.

Partly because he's hooked on screens at the moment and becomes stroppy

Partly as you say because it's cold and wet out

And partly because DH and I both work and are knackered

Yet it occurs to me this can't be ok. I want to make some small changes.

How do you implement the exercise and reading time? How do you make sure that's happening? Perhaps that's a place to start. Not easy with teens.

The exercise can be inside which I think makes it easier to do, lots of YouTube videos to follow..Joe Wicks seems to be a favourite here. I'm lucky that he loves reading anyway so it's not too much of a battle when I tell him to come off and read.

The stroppy attitude is firmly in place here as well but I just threaten to unplug the router and block his phone from using data, that usually does the trick.

I'm definitely finding the older he gets the best way to get him to do what I ask is by explaining why. That I'm not just this mean mum who wants him to have no fun but the actual reason why. He does have ASD and responds really well to logic though so perhaps this is something that won't necessarily work with other children.

I'm at home all the time so I'm lucky in that sense that I can be here and have time to make sure he's following through with what I ask.

@FallenSky in the first lockdown we did some Joe Wickes. It was also spring which helped and we went out more.

Now the issue is I feel most of us are exhausted and dispirited / demoralised. So it's so much easier to turn to screens and thus have no limits. I certainly find that in myself and in how my son is.

For me the difficult balance is: kids have too much time with parents at the moment and thus limited independence and space

My worry is that because of that reality we've gone to the other extreme of allowing them unlimited screen time which then contributes to the problem the pandemic and lockdown create

How do we put some boundaries and give them that needed space and independence? I think it's a tricky balance. At least for me!

You're right. It's a very tricky balance. I'm just at a loss to what else can be done. I can't send him out to meet up with friends. He will spend time with us playing pool or board games but it's quite obvious he'd rather be doing anything else. I certainly don't think you're wrong with your concerns. I'm just not sure what the alternative at the moment is.

This is all so shit.

I feel as long as dd (11) goes out everyday for a walk- or if its pouring down then she does half an hour of ring fit or just dance.
She makes her bed and opens her curtains. Then I'm not bothered.
School work is obviously non negotiable, she has to be on a screen for that so it's not even counted.
Then the only way for her to interact with her friends is via a screen. So she will spend upto probably 4 hours a day (spread out) on the phone while playing animal crossing on the switch. Or they have massive zoom calls and big groups of them play among us.
Days like yesterday, she helped clean the kitchen, mopped the floor, polished the living room. When she gets bored of being on a device she finds something else to do.

She is also learning how to cook, so she makes dinner for us all about 3 nights a week.

@FallenSky yes this is all shit: absolutely. And as parents we need to be kind to ourselves. Goals can't be too high at the moment. I certainly fall in the trap of blaming myself often.

@Nutrigrainygoodness in the first lockdown and summer DS and I did much more - eg cooking, more walks etc. Partly because of winter and exhaustion we've fallen into bad habits.

It's the screentime I'm noticing as something I would like to change in terms of how it affects DS

I'm thinking of just tiny changes I want to experiment on, with no pressure, and learn from others.

DS's room has become a bit of a pigsty recently and I've let that go and not pushing him to do it.

So I told him yesterday from today Thursday we will do 5 minutes nightly to tidy his room together partly because it needs to be redecorated anyway eventually as a more teenagery room. He protested yesterday but I'm sticking to it until it becomes a habit for him. I gave him a small incentive- he's saving up for something he wants and I said until tidying becomes second nature this can be part of things he does to earn the savings.

Otherwise all I will do is what I've been doing- me nagging, he refusing to tidy.

He seemed ok with my little plan I'll see how it goes. It's a tiny step I know.

As for screens one thing we do already and are trying to be firm with is not allowing his phone downstairs when he's at school. I want to be clearer on that as sometimes we give in to his persuasion techniques!!

Is it only for parents of teens? My 2 preteens are a nightmare for screens atm. I’ve tried putting in screen limits but between home schooling, not seeing their friends and me being on a laptop 8.30-4 every day they seem to be using them more than ever. And bloody hell the mood swings when it’s suggested they get off their devices and come for a walk!

@ChancesWhatChances

Is it only for parents of teens? My 2 preteens are a nightmare for screens atm. I’ve tried putting in screen limits but between home schooling, not seeing their friends and me being on a laptop 8.30-4 every day they seem to be using them more than ever. And bloody hell the mood swings when it’s suggested they get off their devices and come for a walk!

@ChancesWhatChances mine is a tween - he's 12.5. But very teenagerey in attitude so I put it here.

What small change do you think you could make to work on a small improvement? Given the current horrid circumstances of course... has to be realistic.

@ChancesWhatChances just to add- I'm with you on the attitude when I insist on walks or tidying. He keeps referring to his human rights

I generally have been giving in too much, due to Covid exhaustion and too much work. But I want some things to change

Yes it is a balance but remember screens are not necessarily bad, in fact they can be a lifesaver. For those who find conversations in person difficult and struggle with relationships, online relationships eg through gaming can give them the interaction they need and true friendships. I think many well meaning adults don't really understand what our young people are doing online - the complex games involve so much more than shooting zombies or whatever, my dd chairs her group within her game and produces rotas, spreadsheets, budgets etc. think hr!

Rather than limiting screentime I would engage with them and find out what they are doing, they might surprise you!

I have given up on exact amounts of permitted screen times but DS age 13 has to turn off personal screens at 9 on a school night. After that he can watch TV with us and is occasionally quite chatty. His phone and tablet are on charge outside his room overnight. I have arranged for him to go running with his friend during double p.e. today. Last time he stayed out for over an hour and I they did some running. If I left it to him to organise it would never happen though, so I text his friends Mum.
He also has to come on one family walk on a weekend. Both him and his brother complain but are OK once we get out.
He has online football training once a week and will occasionally bounce on the trampoline.
Reading is a problem though as he doesn't want to.

@mootymoo

Yes it is a balance but remember screens are not necessarily bad, in fact they can be a lifesaver. For those who find conversations in person difficult and struggle with relationships, online relationships eg through gaming can give them the interaction they need and true friendships. I think many well meaning adults don't really understand what our young people are doing online - the complex games involve so much more than shooting zombies or whatever, my dd chairs her group within her game and produces rotas, spreadsheets, budgets etc. think hr!

Rather than limiting screentime I would engage with them and find out what they are doing, they might surprise you!

@mootymoo absolutely screens have so many benefits including socialisation at the moment for children / young people. Even for us- they can be great eg our conversation now

What I have in mind are the huge excesses we are seeing these days because of lockdown.

This lockdown we’ve said DS (13) has to be off all screens from 4-6pm, otherwise he would honestly just sit there all day.

One of us takes him for a walk or run at 4pm. Then he has to do something else (guitar, reading, helping cook) until 6pm. His mood has lifted so much, as has mine.

He also has to be off all screens at 9pm Sunday-Wednesday. We let him stay on til 10pm on Thursday and don’t worry too much on Friday/Saturday.

Me and DP are really concerned about DSS's screen time. He has a desktop computer in his room. I WFH all the time not just due to covid, and there's no room for a computer downstairs, DP has a small office but again needs to do his work in there.

DSS loves online gaming, and spends most of his time in his room. We take the stance that he's 17, so he can spend his evenings how he likes. He is very very nearly an adult.

But the problem is that whenever DP goes to check on him during the day, he is ALWAYS playing games. He will switch it off and start doing work while DP is watching, but then by the time he's checked on again, he's gaming. We have no idea how much time he spends working in between. We're guessing not a lot.

He is barely spending any time working towards his A Levels, and it seems likely that he'll get poor grades and won't get into the uni he's applied to. What a waste of 2 years.

We can't move the PC as there's nowhere to put it. We can't turn the internet off as he needs it for his live lessons and downloading things off the shared college network. We can't watch him all the time as we're working ourselves and already taking far too many breaks to go and check on him and make sure he's working (he never is).

I hate this situation because it's making me so resentful. We're working harder than ever and he's sitting upstairs, practically an adult man, gaming all day while not paying a single penny towards running this house, and doing very little in the way of housework (it's honestly not worth the torrent of abuse we get for asking him to do something). I'm not saying I want him to pay to live here, I never paid my parents until I graduated from uni, but I do think he should contribute. A contribution IMO would include working hard for his A Levels. To thank us for supporting him and making sure he has everything he needs - because he really does. He has an AMAZING study setup in his room. Just so happens to be amazing for gaming too. But he's treated this whole last year as some kind of massive jolly. He will regret it, of course, but he doesn't see it now. Teens never do.

That’s really difficult to tackle when they’re 17.

I'm afraid we didn't manage the small changes, light touch approach 😭

Eldest here is very academic and high achieving, which makes it hard for us to stick to the line that screens are not a good use of his time, as his reports are glowing. He does the work he needs to in lockdown.

But he gets very over invested in some games he plays, literally pounds the desk, shouts, sobs sometimes. It is awful for him, us and his two brothers to hear. It is really, really bad for his mental health. Also, he was refusing to join in his online extra curricular activities. I get that they are a pale shadow of what he could be doing, but that's the situation.

His argument was that gaming is the only way he gets to speak to his friends. So we tried limits similar to those above 9pm on a school night, whatever he likes on non school nights. It was always a battle to get him to come off and I could do without that at 9pm every work night. I think we were endlessly accomodating - eg found out when his friends would be on in the evenings, worked around that etc. None of it really worked; fundamentally he would work all day at the computer then game all night and all weekend if allowed.

So yesterday we moved his PC into the sitting room, moved his brother's into a sort of temporary hallway workstation. And that's it. No gaming in the week. They can chat with friends on discord during the day and two days a week they go into school as we are both keyworkers. They are old enough to meet one friend for socially distanced walk/exercise.

At first he was utterly furious and took himself off for a long bike ride. He rang granny and I am sure was not particularly pleasant about us. But it really couldn't go on -- and yes over time we have talked and reasoned and discussed. This was the only thing that worked.

He's now rejoined his academic clubs as I think he's hoping to have gaming time at the weekend.

I get that other people's children may use gaming differently. But for our eldest it was sucking up all his time, attention and energy; all his drive just went into gaming. It was really sad and worrying to see. We had to step in as we don't feel it's a good thing for him personally and we don't want his brothers going that route.

I totally appreciate others feel differently, but after a tumultuous evening, it feels like a different house here now. Sorry for the epic post. It's partly just to help me process it because I am usually very much alongside him so taking this step was a huge thing. I should mention he also built his PC himself, so doubly hard as it really is 'his.'

@Donotgogentle

That’s really difficult to tackle when they’re 17.

It is. We do try to give him freedom, but we can't just sit here and let him throw his future away. I don't think he realises how serious he is. I don't think he knows that his university are being serious when they say they want certain grades. His sixth form were lenient letting him in with slightly poor GCSE grades (same problem - wouldn't do the work) and I think he thinks that's how life works now. That he'll just get in regardless. I don't want him finding out the hard way but it seems likely.

Yes, I should say our eldest two are 14 and 12 .. very different when they are 17

I've never imposed screen limits - limits have occurred naturally though the DC "doing something else". Now the "something else" is not available to them. So unless you child has a specific "non-screen" hobby (I have one DC who does lots of art stuff) it's really hard to stop them using screens now because - what will they do instead?

Screens have also become all purpose. They are for education, socialising, exercise and hobbies. I don't think it's the use of screens per se that is the problem -but what they are used for. Ironically some of the previous answers re getting your DC off screens mention - getting your child to exercise using YouTube aka another screen. Is this a bad use of their time?

My DS reads a lot of current affairs news on his phone. (He could give you a long in depth discussion about current stock market challenges). Is this a bad use of his time?

I think it's interesting that OP's post says given their addiction to screens, they are not learning the valuable lesson the lockdown inevitably offers- how to deal with difficult situations and manage.
But they are dealing with the situation! The fact they are not doing so by learning a language and baking cakes (where they'd probably use a screen for the information) does not make their way of coping any less valid. And, it has to be said, plenty of adults are dealing with the lockdown in the same way. Why do we set higher standards for our teens?

@Donotgogentle

This lockdown we’ve said DS (13) has to be off all screens from 4-6pm, otherwise he would honestly just sit there all day.

One of us takes him for a walk or run at 4pm. Then he has to do something else (guitar, reading, helping cook) until 6pm. His mood has lifted so much, as has mine.

He also has to be off all screens at 9pm Sunday-Wednesday. We let him stay on til 10pm on Thursday and don’t worry too much on Friday/Saturday.

@Donotgogentle that's interesting. So do you have different times / days?

That's a good idea.
How did your DC take it?

No limits here.

More that they have to do other things which naturally means they get time off screens. After having to do school online this is what they do

Teen - it’s cooking dinner sometimes, music practise, exercise which luckily he does off his own bat

Yr6 - art, music and dog walking

So it’s more what can they find interest in that is off screen

Tbh the yr6 is harder as the teen has learnt some self regulation

I suppose that is a limit. But I guess I’m aware that telling them get off needs to be somewhat enticing with an alternative thing to do

It is hard though. Socialising, learning and education all screen based. Can’t wait for it to pass.

I don't have teens yet but I'm struggling with my DCs. I'm knackered, stressed, depressed so it's easier to let them have what they want rather than actually tackle this. DS2 is being assessed for behavioural problems and will throw a complete toddler-like meltdown if he doesn't get his own way - that then stresses DP (not DSs dad) and he gets angry so whatever I do is wrong.

I'm at work every day then trying to keep the home together outside of work and I'm running out of will to live.