DD 15 bad behaviour at home/quiet at school

[GooseberryTart]

The worst thing DD15’s teachers say about her is that she is too quiet in class (this is a common theme) no behavioural issues, 100 per cent attendance and almost always does her homework on time. But at home I get both barrels.

I know she is stressed and frustrated about Covid and GCSE’s (we are in England), she is very cold at school (all windows open and the school have said they can’t wear coats) and probably hangry as all she will take to school is a bag of vinegar crisps for lunch.

But if she can manage to behave ok at school could she have undiagnosed autism or something else behaviour wise which may affect the extreme way she behaves at home (shouty, sweary, vile, bedroom is filthy crockery half eaten food abandoned amongst wet towels and dirty underwear, disrespectful, never apologises, over reacts, aggressive, doesn’t listen, calls me by my christian name and uses some sort of street talk like ‘don’t come at me’ and ‘back off’ etc etc).

Thanks.

No School won’t budge re no coats rule.

I have always talked and listened to my kids growing up. I always thought we shared a good and close relationship until DD went to secondary.

But DD was bullied in year 7/8 by some ex friends. I tried to help with her consent and contacted the school but the bullies were sneaky and school were next to useless. She was really unhappy and stopped talking to us shortly after this. She just refuses to communicate with us 9 times out of 10 it doesn’t matter whether its in the car, whilst out with the dog or over a hot chocolate and cake. If we try to talk she snaps and gets irrationally angry.

Re: her bedroom occasionally she will tidy it up but this is few and far between or DH or I will tidy up for her or help her. Nothing seems to work. Its a tip again with an unmade bed and dirty clothes and wet towels etc strewn about.

She won’t accept cuddles anymore and you can’t even pat her shoulder or anything.

Its like her bedroom is a bed sit and she has checked out of family life already.

Hi, I recently got a great book "Get out of my life, but first take me and Alex into town", recommended on here. It doesn't necessarily have answers but does help explain why teens behave the way they do. One of the main things it puts across is if your teen is well behaved at school or anywhere else then that is generally what their personality is like and they act out at home because that's where they feel safe enough to do so. Pushing boundaries etc. It definitely is helping me understand DD (15) more and feel less alone.

Thanks @Reallystressedout I certainly hope that is the case.

Well after a slight reprieve we are back to square one with Dd.
Back to spending every waking moment except for when at school and eating she is in her room. She ignores us, is aggressive, snappy, twisting conversations/situations to a twisted truth and generally treating me with absolute hatred. She usually doesn’t eat breakfast apart from occasionally some days she will grab a handful of biscuits or a bag of crisps, she refuses to take a sandwich or anything else to school only taking a bag of crisps for lunch and doesn’t eat the healthiest of teas as she is extremely fussy. . So she is hangry.
After ignoring us when she got home from school then shouting and behaving aggressively before she went to bed. She has got up this morning and isn’t speaking to us.
I started giving her a lift to school and from school (on the days I am not working) after she was bullied in year 8 by some ex friends who live round the corner and as she has no friends walking to or from school from our direction. She said last night she is walking to and from school today as she would rather walk than half a lift from me (its not too far but very cold today up north and I worry about her with her diet and being cold all day in school as the classroom windows are open and they can’t wear coats and she is in school until 4pm with revision classes.

I would research Autism - my Dd is 18 now and only diagnosed last year. She was always so well behaved at school but exploded at home- it’s really common as they’re so exhausted from masking their behaviour. Her room is nicknamed “the swamp”, real sensory issues with food so eats the same thing most days and we are unable to touch/hug her. Getting a diagnosis really helped her and us and although things are still difficult she is generally much happier.

Thank you @Jools7667 how old was your DD when she received her diagnosis or started on the path to it and was she on board with it?
I have suggested counselling, suggested a trip to the GP for blood tests or to ask about suspected autism but she refuses to acknowledge she has any issues or anything to talk about and refuses to go to GP, or see a counsellor and she would definitely kick off if I contacted the school.
Also her school don’t really know her as its a large comp and she is extremely quiet so she drifts under their radar.
I am at my wits end and feel like the worst mother in the world.
Last night DH said she clearly doesn’t care about you or me. We put up with it and she can leave home at 16. I worry about letting her down and pushing her into either suicide or an abusive relationship or something. But she quite clearly behaves as though she absolutely detests me and hates me with a passion.

Sorry @Jools7667 realised you have said 17 when she was diagnosed but what was the catalyst for starting the diagnosis and was she in agreement with this? Dd was diagnosed with dyslexia at 8 as I pushed for a diagnosis (the school weren’t supportive because she was bright) but she resented my going down this route (but I was aware she was struggling) and she still does.

@GooseberryTart Dd started having really severe anxiety around 11/12 and became known at school in years 9/10 as unable to go into most classes. I began to think around GCSE time that this was not normal anxiety. She’d been seen by GP’s & school counsellors - she wouldn’t interact with them at all and no one suggested ASD, it was the sensory problems that led me to research Autism.
Local CAMHS wouldn’t see her as she wasn’t severe enough! So we got diagnosis privately. Dd was on board but relied on me to do the talking. She is relieved to have a diagnosis and is much calmer now. I think we deal with her in a different way now as we understand she thinks and reacts so differently to us, I read a lot online to try and understand her better.

Thank you yes my DD is most certainly not on board so maybe she isn’t.

She has always had a quiet confidence. She was never bothered about doing her hair, going out with a stain on her clothing etc. She was and still is unconcerned about her appearance no make up, hair in a severe pony tail and old clothes (refusing to accept any clothes or choose any clothes online or in a shop with her friends). At 12 when her best friend really the only girl she know and was her age in her small guides left. She insisted on going to guide camp with other guides in the county on her own for 5 days. I remember when she was little an actor in a kids play went round the kids to reassure them they weren’t scary I think they were dressed as pirates or something and when they asked DD if she was scared of anything. She said I’m not scared of nothing and no one. So she hasn’t said and it hasn’t appeared that anxiety is a problem for her. Unless it is and that is where her anger behaviour at home comes from but apart from going off on one about GCSE’s mainly in annoyance and anger rather than expressing worries or doubts.

OP, my dd is nearly 11 and in her last year of junior school. I also get it both barrels when she gets home from school. She is extremely limited with food which is a complete nightmare.

Her behaviour at school is brilliant and academically she is doing really well. However, during lockdown I noticed she was having meltdowns when it came to certain tasks. She couldnt say why she felt angry. I suspected at this point she may be autistic.

I booked an assessment privately with an educational psychologist. As part of the assessment I completed questionnaires re behaviour in relation to autism and coordination development disorder (my dd is quite clumsy).

From the scoring of the questionnaires, the Ed Psych advised it was highly likely my dd was autistic (probable Aspegers) and she scored highly for development co ordination disorder.

When I spoke to her teacher they have always said she is very quiet, but works well at school. The only comment her teacher made was that sometimes my dd was robotic with her answers.

My dd is fine one on one with her friends but struggles in groups - she struggles to keep conversations going which can be an indicator of autism.

The Ed Psychologist said that masking at school is exhausting and this is why she is probably so angry at home at times. She recommended that she be assessed for autism and development co ordination disorder and she is currently on a waiting list to be assessed by paediatrics.

I have looked into a private assessment for autism which is about £3000 and there is 6 month waiting list. I am waiting to see how long the NHS waiting list first.

Thank you @celticmissey that is my DD now to an absolute T except she isn’t clumsy.

Looking back growing up and at 11 I think she was relatively ok but she did have an obsessional friendship with some girls around the corner although it seemed to be mutual. She has only really got worse in the last couple of years but I think lockdown one brought things to a head for her. But we don’t have 3K and if the NHS diagnosis takes a similar time other than us treating her differently at home I don’t know how it will help her with friendships and at school (especially if she doesn’t want to be helped and won’t tell us what is wrong etc)?

DD’s diagnosis was luckily not £3000!! We found a psychologist locally who specialised in ASD think report was about £500.

Thanks the more I read about it. I am not sure she has autism/ASD but I do think she has some traits. She can be very creative and inventive and seems to be extremely insightful and understanding of some social scenarios recently and often totally hits the nail on the head with her understanding and explanation of certain scenarios. However, she still behaves quite callously and hurtfully towards me and never apologies or shows a hint of remorse.

I have just been up to her bedroom. I was going to tidy it up yet again but I don’t have the heart. Her bin is absolutely over flowing, she has an expensive Denby bowl and a Denby mug absolutely caked in lashings of extra thick hot chocolate on her bedside table, clean washing to put away on her desk, lots of school work on the floor strewn amongst dirty clothes and underwear, wet towels, crisp packets etc etc. I don’t have the heart I feel so down about it. I just desperately want to enjoy a nice relationship with her but feel like I am hanging on by a thread and to her in her way of rationalising things that she ship has long sailed. She is living in the same house as us doesn’t care about us doesn’t respect us and all she is interested in is playing games on her phone, talking/communicating with her best friend on her phone, being stroppy and eating chocolate and crisps.

Sorry OP i didn't make it clear - the Educational psychologist assessment was £500, the private autism assessment is £3000.

Thank you DD had an EP report done when she was 8 to confirm her dyslexia.

DD came home from school sneaked upstairs with half a family sized bag of tortillas. I asked if she had, had a good day and she said ‘fine’. I made her some tea she came down for it and went straight upstairs again. DH tried to engage her in conversation but she was dismissive of him. We have a rule that phones go on charge downstairs at 10pm (we have to message her to remind her about this every night ). She comes down (hasn’t gave either of us a kiss goodnight for awhile), doesn’t even say goodnight is argumentative again then goes to bed. She gets up this morning and leaves without saying anything to me. DH tried to speak to her and she stormed off. I texted her to say have a good day, sorry I missed her and said to let me know if she wanted a lift later. No response. How do I resolve things please? She won’t tell me what is wrong, or speak to me at all, won’t go to doctors to see a counsellor no other adults in the family she has much to do with and she certainly wouldn’t speak to any adult at school. I don’t know where to turn but this isn’t good for either of us I feel permanently sick and very stressed. I feel like some evil step mother in the family and I am her mum and to think it al started because I asked her to wash her hands when she came in and pick the dirty washing up from her bedroom floor (3 or 4 days worth) when she got changed while I made her a snack and got her a drink. How do I resolve this please?

I think you have my daughter.....

She’s always had a pattern of being delightful at school and difficult at home. When she was 9 we realised it was all anxiety based. She was just awkward all the time. We had CAHMs in and they said that children can hold it together at school but not at home. She wasn’t autistic or ADHad she was just anxious.

She’s a grump now. Hides in her room, snaps, avoids us. But tbh although l find it upsetting l think it’s normal. Dh deals with it better as he finds it amusing and torments her.
This makes her laugh so sometimes the grumpy facade cracks. It upsets me though and we fall out.

She’s 14.

You are not alone. My loving girl is still inside there sometimes. I see glimpses of it. But to get to it, l have to back off. She hates being ‘smothered’.

We have 3 older boys. They were much easier, but were kidnapped by aliens during their teen years. They’re lovely now.

I think it’s a waiting game. Hth

And she won’t eat breakfast, takes a minuscule lunch and then comes in starving and ‘hangry’

And l could post a picture of dd’s shit pit? Complete with hot chocolate trails, apple cores, floordrobe.

I just ignore it. Let her come to you, don’t chase, she is just trying to separate.

Thank you @TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince that is exactly it. She can sometimes laugh with DH and absolutely turn on me. I thought her brother was bad but he was a dream compared to this. I will try and back off. What can be done about anxiety? Because Dd won’t talk to us any more she doesn’t explain what is wrong or upsetting her.

I don’t know, mine won’t talk to me about it either. When we had CAHMs in age 9 she sat in the corner with her face to the wall and refused to comply😖it was mortifying.

I just try and tell her that although we know she hates us at the moment and this is normal,we are still on her side and will always help her if she needs it. Sometimes if she gets really worked up she will let me soothe her, but not often.

I try to do stuff with her that she likes, like watching Bake off. This was our little 1 hour window of communication.

I let her have her phone at night. She’s pretty good and goes to sleep when she needs to. So maybe that May help? Treating her a bit more grown up? I don’t know though.

I just try and ride it. It’s hard and upsetting, but any attempts to dig deep just result in her closing up like a clam. I just try and let her know I’m always there for her.

And she’s much horribler to me than dh😩

Hi, just to reiterate what Reallystressedout posted above. I too bought "Get Out of My Life, But First Take Me and Alex into Town". Only received it yesterday and can't put it down.

It explains what teenagers are going through so you have a better understanding of their behaviour. It has helped me immensely already. I can't recommend it highly enough.

It may be useful to look at some strategies for dealing with anxiety in ASD teens. Anxiety can be expressed in many forms and anger is a frequent one! My DD does not like change in any form. So if she has a supply teacher, or an unexpected test, or a fire alarm - anything out of the normal at school - she will be very "angry" at home for a while. She eats the same thing for days as the strain of making decisions is too hard sometimes. She needs to know what is happening in advance - no surprises allowed!

If any of these things sound familiar, trying mitigating them. We have a menu board so she knows what we are having to eat - often she will plan for the week ahead. We make sure there is plenty of notice of things happening at home eg visitors (not at the moment!). There is no pressure on her to be sociable - she really needs her personal space.

Just thinking about the stuff she doesn't like and reframing why she doesn't like it allows you to consider that she is not being "difficult" but struggling with something. Sensory issues are very real.

Does any of this seem like your DD?