Don't know what to do

[MumofTeenDespair]

Very worried about my DS16.
Background: very bright, musically gifted, ASD, very stubborn. Has a few friends and people he sees through music activities, but not really close friends. Seems very keen on trying to get himself a girlfriend. year 11.

Behaviour: has always been stubborn and selfish. Lately swears all the time (no sentence doesn't have fuck in it). If we try to do any 'parenting' asking him to get up in the morning, get dressed, come to the table etc at best we get 'fuck off' and at worst we get a pounding. I am physically covered in bruises. Back in the summer he kicked my husband and cracked a rib.

Behaviour deteriorated over the course of lock down / remote learning, as did the attention to school work and we had a crap summer (younger sibling had an accident and it scuppered what few plans we had for having a bit of a break/ some fun). He was actually looking forward to getting back to school for the routine but I think there's now a lot of pressure and it's made him worried about his exams (he's Year 11) but at the same time reluctant/unable to do much work. He comes home from school and slumps on his bed on his phone for hours. He's missed a total of 8 days school because he's been unwell (tonsilitis, 3 days or so) and says he's depressed (accounts for the other 5 days off - he was physically well enough but basically refused to go in and we couldn't do anything about it). School have been amazingly supportive and agreed to no more work than necessary, and clear instructions (something he finds hard with ASD). They haven't given us a hard time about his 76% attendance.

Bargaining and compromise doesn't work. We've limited his phone time (by using a screen time app) which he resents. He would stay up on his phone all night if we didn't switch it off - he has no self-discipline at all. Today I had the idea to have a discussion with him (misguided I now realise) that if he can write himself a schedule for the week (its half-term and he has mocks when he goes back) then we can agree to when he can have use of his phone. He basically went mad and punched me, and then said he might as well kill himself.

As regards help: we've found him various websites including childline. He will have school counselling after half-term. He's also going to be discussed at an Early Intervention meeting at school. He's being referred by school to CAHMS and also referred by school to 'Family Wellbeing' (branch of social services), AND the borough ASD team are aware of the problems and there's a course for me to go on at some point soon. So, not as if people are not trying.

I've looked at his phone from time to time (I know this is a contentious issue among parents and I don't like doing it but I do need some insight into what's going on) and he has slagged us off to his Aunt. I'm happy he has a kind person to confide in but I'm not altogether happy with what she's saying to him (not telling him anything outrageous but suggesting medication etc which is absolutely not her business to do). But I don't want to break the confidence there or he'll hate us even more.

So, basically, do we just stand back and let him do exactly what he wants to do. We can provide food and clothes and shelter, and then just completely back off. He accuses us of not giving a shit but nothing could be further from the truth. I've invested a lot of time and care in trying to sort out the school side of things, but he's not even meeting us half way. I'm truly worried that he will flunk his exams and - the worst of it - he'll look back at this time and really regret it.
And, if there is a trigger which has made it all worse in the last few weeks, there's also some really toxic girl whom he kissed, and then she dumped him. It's obviously hurt him but it's not worth throwing his future away for. But I can't say that as I only know because I've been checking his phone. He doesn't tell us anything. Except how much he hates us.

I would back right off yes. Provide food and clothing etc etc and try to engage as little as possible for now. Let him come to you for now if possible.

However, him physically abusing you needs addressing and it needs addressing quickly. I would make it clear to him that if any physical violence occurs ever again, then you will report this to the police as that is what we do when someone attacks us. He's clearly able to understand this. I'd be very concerned about my son entering into a relationship with a girl if he was prone to violence so this is what stands out to me in your op. This is where attention needs to go urgently - you cannot have a violent young man in your home and he needs to learn this

I have a 13 year old DS with ASD though no swearing and no violence.

I would be most concerned about the violence and also would be concerned for any girl with him if he can be violent and swears constantly. I would have consequences for any violence like a week of no phone and seek help in dealing with this. I would go through with him that if this continues people will report him to police and he could end up in prison.

It's good you are getting some help in. Eating with you, getting dressed etc I might ease up on and concentrate on dealing with the violence, work ethic and swearing.

I would consider medication - I normally wouldn't but it sounds dangerous for you and your husband (and any other kids) and also if he's saying he's sucidal. I would try anti-depressants - maybe ask for a psychiatrist referral and consider meds, there's also ADHD meds if that's applicable. Anti-depressants may supress his anger then you can address some of the other issues / have a calmer household.

I think its good he is talking to the aunt and she's probably worried about you all and that's why she is suggesting meds. My DS likes to feel he is in control and things are the same so where you can involve him in decision making I would even if its fake control - like when my DS was little I would ask if he wanted to go to bed at 8pm or 8.05pm.

Hope things start to improve. If you try the SN chat thread someone may have more / better advice.

I probably wouldn't remove his phone or any other tech for violence. All he will do is become more violent. This has gone way WAY past those sort of consequences. I'd tell him at a time when he's calm that if he attacks you again, the police will be called. Because it's against the law to hit people.

Does he have any calm periods where you can talk to him?

You need a load more help that you're currently getting. What outside agencies are involved? Who else knows he is extremely physically violent?

Yes I’ve told him I’d call the police. If we don’t engage with him, he’s not violent. He’s not aggressive outside of the family: there have never been any incidents at school etc. Other than all the referrals we have on the go, I’m not sure where to go to get this urgent help.

Once his younger brother called the police because he was scared about the argument which had flared up between me and DS. They did come to the house, but things had calmed down and they made it clear they were not happy at being called out. They made my younger DS feel very upset and the older one just sat there rolling his eyes and I just looked pathetic. They told me I might get a phone call from social services but I didn’t.
Unfortunately I don’t think the police can / will help.

Really I’d like to hear from people who have been through / are going through this. Even if they don’t have the answers.

Poor little lamb has been dumped so thinks he can beat up mum and dad.

Sorry this just isn’t right - take everything away and give him nothing apart from basics.

It’s appalling behaviour.

Please do someone tell me what other agencies there are, other than the ones already mentioned? Referrals take time. Anecdotally CAMHs waiting list in this area is 12-18 months. GP appt practically impossible to get and they know about his depression as I mentioned it in relation to his other medical issues. No support there.

School knows the issues, including the violence. Hence the flurry of referrals and offering counselling

I’d back right off. Why would you push him to write a schedule for half term week? Surely that’s his down time?

The violence absolutely must be addressed though. I’d push school and your GP for CAMHS referral ASAP.

OP it sounds very difficult.

Sorry. I was only trying to help. I haven't been through this though but I couldn't tolerate it so the police IS the answer along with Social Services probably. This awful young man will one day have a partner and that's a scary thought. He needs urgent help. Good luck

It's very hard to get help - my son was referred 2 years ago to CAHMS, we are still waiting. Autism assessment 2 year wait. GP refused to help at all and 1 month wait for appointment to tell us that, he was 5 minutes late so 2 month wait to say there's nothing.

Mine has issues at school and that's easier to get help for - I've had it both via school and via local authority SN team. Included ed psych and specialist teacher team.

I would say it would be social services or GP - if you say he's sucidal (but don't mention autism) you maybe able to get an urgent emergency referral from GP. If you mention autism they will sometimes reject saying its part of it. I would ask for a psychiatrist referral.

You could try your local authority SN team which are part of education but if issues are not at school not sure they will be able to offer anything. Though sounds like education side of things is being covered.

In our area you can also get a family support worker and / or a youth support worker - they can be either via school or via early help directly but each area varies. In our area there's no wait for family support workers but a 6 month wait for youth support workers. These are seperate from social services.

Teen DD with ASD here.

What do you think are the triggers that lead to a meltdown and result in violence. You need to work through them when he is calm (look up the cold iron approach)

You need to go back to basic care giving you all time to re set. Family solutions were a life line for us during the violent episodes and were a great reminder that DDs brain is wired differently and we needed a slower approach towards he, less demands and more positive experiences together rather than battles all the time.

DD is now a much calmer person, we expect very little from her and in return she does her own house keeping, routines inc cooking for the family.

You will have to push for referrals I’d contact www.autism.org.uk/ you need to build your army of supporters around you, there is help but you need to dig for it unfortunately

Op I'm there right now with my fifteen years old. His behavior has always been appalling. He has asd and diagnosed odd though I suspect pda.
People won't understand who don't have a child with complex emotional issues. My advice is no demands at all. It works much better. Than "parenting" in a traditional sense. Honestly it goes against every instinct in your body but I have found that I cannot control his behavior but I can control my reaction, as he feeds off the upset he causes. A few things. The violence. When calm have a conversation that the violence has to stop or the police will be called and do follow through bad hard as it is, explain in no uncertain terms that he cannot physically be hurt anyone in your home. I have told my son that the police have a note on his record that any incidence of violence will result in him being removed. I have called the police several times and the police have been very good in understanding that it's a last resort.
Sit down when everyone is calm and discuss an escape plan for everyone, include all children. There is no point in denying that the issue isn't there. Explain if it means you and ds 2 need to leave the house until ds 1 calms down than that is what you will do.
Speak factually, remove emotions from the situation, sounds hard but leave your emotions to someone else you can confide in, instead say, " I don't like that language, I'll come and talk to you when you can talk respectfully.
Unfortunately the language now tough but might be something you might need to turn a blind eye to in the short term and focus on the physical violence. If I were in your position no would explain to ds 2 that you know that language being acceptable but even if his brother chooses to do the wrong thing he can choose the right thing to do.
There is a group non facebook called vcb project that have great webinars and helpful information.
Also look out the PDA website.
I know exactly how you feel. But honestly the less demands for my son the better he behaves, no nagging about homework, if he fails that's his consequence to deal with. No nagging about bedroom, if he runs out of clean clothes then nits his issue.
Ds not perfect now but no violence for a good few months and has recently used other methods of expressing anger, such as pounding something bin the garden as he knows violence means he is out of the house.good luck op I really do understand.

Also cahms won't see ds as he has asd. teens and kids with asd don't apparently need medication for mental health issues (eye roll). have had two a and e admissions and they still wont see him. No private psychiatrist in my area either. In ireland though. Apparently he needs to be seen by asd team. (There is a 4 year wait list!)
We have muddled along but find that low demand/low arousal and keeping everyone safe is the best thing for us. He does seem to be maturing but it really is taking a long time. It's like emotionally he is 12.

@boring if you haven't been through this then I don't know why you are replying. That is not constructive advice at all.

BoringUser: I hope you're not working in any position where you're dealing with troubled kids. He's not an awful young man, he's my baby and I love him, and I want to help him and help us. I don't know why people like you comment on these boards. As you say, you haven't been through it. 'Social Services probably' - have you ever tried to get social services to get involved? No, I guess you haven't. I tried many years ago and they have a very high bar for involvement, and we were below it. Please don't talk about things you don't understand.

Downton: I wanted to discuss plans for the week (we are also hoping to go away for a couple of days) so that we don't go through the same discussions every day about what his plans are, is he going to do any work etc. He's in a vicious circle of: worried about work / doesn't do any because he can't face it / gets behind / worries more / can't face it. Plus won't get up, won't eat, won't go to bed et. He has some catching up to do, and some mock revision to do. Mocks probably more important now than ever in case we end up in the situation GCSE kids did last year. Every single expert everywhere says that the best way to deal wtih stress/ anxiety / pressure is to have a plan. No expert ever says deal with it by staying in bed and bitching to your friends on the phone. Also, as an ASD kid, he has trouble with time-management and planning etc. So, with his agreement, I spent a long time in contact with his teachers (who were fantastic) and I've worked out what he needs to do, what's less important, what might help, what's advisable. But, the only person who can do the work is him. I'm in no way suggesting he doesn't have 'down time' this holiday, but it's one of those period in his life where he can't really afford to switch off completely for 10 days. He's even allowed to drop a couple of subjects but is absolutely refusing to. Maybe he needs to do badly in his mocks in order to see that something has to give.

For those not paying attention: CAHMs referral is in progress, as is Early Intervention, plus social services, plus local ASD education team. GPs are not seeing patients and - anyway - told me on the phone that school need to refer to CAHMs. As I say, school is brilliant and the GP is crap so I know who has got our back at the moment. I consider myself lucky that school are prepared to help even when the problems aren't visible at school. But right now, today, there is nothing. Which is why I'm reaching out for a bit of a handhold.

Gazing: yes I've heard of the cold iron approach. I'm hoping at some point I'll get on an NVR course but things are so messed up with Covid issues at the moment, and so I'm not sure when a course might appear. Triggers are basically anything we say to him. He won't talk about the underlying issues because he say he won't understand. But, to be honest, I'm not really sure he even knows. I guess it's teenage hormones, unrequited love, things not being 'normal' due to covid, self-doubt, stress at school. I'm not surprised he's stressed but he is not helping himself. If he's left to do EXACTLY what he wants, then we just don't see him and so there's no aggression because there's no interaction. But it goes against my parenting instincts to leave him to wallow as I don't think he's going to make any progress like that, and he'll fail his exams too. Sometimes he'll come out for a walk and we'll chat, but he's very careful to guide the conversation to where he wants it to go. So i don't find out any more than he wants to tell me.

Wow you are being very rude to people, will leave you to it. People were only trying to help.

Another thing op. How is he in regards to understanding his autism? I only ask because my son does not accept his diagnosis at all and it's a big issue because he doesn't do any management of his asd traits, has repressed all stimming etc. This does not seem from us, he just will not accept that he is different and needs help as a result he doesn't cope well and refuses any help.

@Cheeeeislifenow - thank you so much for coming to my rescue! I can tell you understand. What you say makes sense, and is also more or less what my husband says (although sometimes I think he just wants to stick his head in the sand). It does go against instincts, though, doesn't it? I know there are parents out there who 'nag' far more, and are far more strict, yet they get none of this kind of shit back. I guess it just underlines what I need to keep reminding myself: ASD kids are different.

Because he is high-achieving, puts on a good show in school and in public etc, doesn't commit really huge social gaffes etc, I tend to forget that he's so different. I guess I always hope he'll grow out of it. But of course he won't. It's hard to sort out what's ASD, what's 2020 (all the shit we're all having to deal with), what's just being a teenager. Minefield.

Thanks for your advice - I'll look up that FB page now.

You have very good insight into his behaviour and a plan. I think medication would help in this situation once you can get to the GP/CAHMS. Do you have the resources to engage a private child psychiatrist and would he engage? Young Minds are a charity you could try.

@KoalaRabbit - I'm just very upset and I get pissed off with people giving their opinion/advice when they don't understand the situation. Or not reading what I've already written. I wasn't being rude to you, I don't think.

Some of the comments from people make me marvel at the lack of insensitivity!

@Lightsabre - CAHMs might be a long wait, or even an outright rejection. And I've heard such variable reports ... We could scrape around for the money for a private appointment, although we also need to pay for a private ENT appointment (long-standing problem, and earliest appointment on NHS is May 2021 ....). I'm very nervous of medication, particularly if it's not backed up with regular counselling/reviews et. Given his difficulty / reluctance in communicating, I worry that he wouldn't understand the side-effects. I'm really really not keen.

I've looked at Young Minds and did actually call the parent help line last week but couldn't get through. I know they have articles online etc but I couldn't see that they could actually offer a young person anything? They seemed to be at pains to say they weren't a counselling service.

I looked at Childline website which seems brilliant (they've put a lot of work into that) and gave DS the website address. And I noticed that he did have a webchat for an hour last week but then I saw he'd confided in his aunt that it wasn't helpful.

It's at least a start that he will even consider engaging - he actually asked me to get him some help (after I'd suggested it a few times). the first step will be the school counsellor. I think he will find it hard but I am glad that he's willing to try. Again, though, I've seen him say to people that he's heard it's not helpful. He also has a keyworker at school because of his ASD - it's a new person this term and he's not had much to do with him. However, key worker told me he's a trained therapist and is happy talking to my DS at any time, even just casually.

Err people are trying to help you? You should have made it clear in your opening post that you only wished for opinions and advice from those going through it.

And he DOES sound horrible. That's just a fact from your op. He broke your husbands bones? He punches you black and blue? He can't speak to you without telling you to fuck off? What exactly do you want people to say?

I gave what I thought was reasonable and measured advice. So did others

You're just rude. Good luck with him. I'll leave you to it

@Cheeeeislifenow

Good question about his diagnosis. We've never really spoken about it much. I feel it's the elephant in the room.

He was diagnosed in Year 4. We didn't actually tell him about his diagnosis until Year 6 and he seemed to take it well, but didn't ask any questions.

He got a keyworker straight away at secondary school in Year 7. I thought he might be resistent to it, feeling singled out, but he agreed that it was worth having a bit of extra support. Basically he doesn't need support in class, but it was good for him to have a weekly catch up with the key worker who dealt with some of the organisational difficulties. Over time, he's found it less necessary and so by mutual agreement it kind of stopped.

Then this year the SEN team asked me if we wanted to apply for extra time in his mocks and GCSEs because of his ASD. I had to wait and pick a calm moment and asked DS and his reply said 'I might as well'.

I think he's embarrassed about it. The teachers don't really understand his needs but they do the 'standard' thing like putting him at the front of the class. I thought he might not want the extra exam time because it marks him out as different but he said 'well everyone knows I'm a retard'. That broke my heart. I've seen that he's referred to himself as having a 'mental condition'. So, really, I'm not sure he understands it.

@BoringUserNam3 - News: most people don't stop loving their kids just because they do bad things. It's called motherly love, and it's unconditional. You sound like a complete bitch. Goodbye - I can certainly do without your opinion.

This could be the crux of it op. Worthwhile speaking to some asd charities about therapists that he can talk to and understand his diagnosis a bit better. He sounds very similar to my son.