Sulky, destructive teen making our lives hell

[GwenderellaBlobson]

DS1, now 14, was a happy, affectionate child who did well at school, but he was always somewhat shy and lacking in confidence. Since he hit puberty (which started at an early age, when he was around 10) he has gone through periods of intense sulkiness. He had some friendship issues in Year 5/6 of primary school but he refused to discuss these with us. More recently, there have been angry outbursts and he has occasionally destroyed his own belongings and ours. Even on a good day, we are frequently told to go away when we try to engage with him.

Things seemed much improved in the early weeks of lockdown; he watched films with us, did some cooking and joined us for walks. But nine days ago, he lashed out at DS2 (aged 12) who was teasing him. DP angrily remonstrated with DS1, who descended into a sulk. When DP later tried to lighten the mood and establish a truce, DS1 tried to hit him as well, and then rode off on his bike for over two hours without telling us where he was going. We later discovered that he had smashed up his glasses in a rage, probably during the bike ride.

Since that incident, DS1 has mainly been lying in his room with the blind drawn. When we speak to him or ask him to do anything, he is rude and uncooperative. He emerges for meals but otherwise he won’t engage with us, even when we tell him we want to help him. We’ve made it clear that hitting DS2 is a line he mustn’t cross, however irritating he finds him. We have also confiscated his phone and said that he needs to tell us what he has done with his glasses and pay for a new pair (he doesn’t know that I found the smashed pair hidden in his room). He refuses to speak to us about this.

Last week we spoke to a child psychologist, which was useful, but there seems to be absolutely no prospect of getting DS1 to see her. I’ve been lying awake at night worrying and I feel as though his presence in the house casts a huge shadow over the whole family. I find myself dwelling on the mistakes I’ve made as a parent and wondering if I could have handled things differently. There have been times in the past when no doubt I’ve been inconsistent, not strict enough (under the guise of ‘choosing my battles’) or conversely too strict or overbearing; I have also lost my temper with him on a few occasions, which I am not proud of and which I apologised for at the time. The bottom line, though, is that most of the parents I know have made mistakes but their teenagers are nowhere near as bad as this; in fact, many of them are charming. It pains me that my own son is so unpleasant, angry and selfish, not to mention deeply unhappy.

I think our strategy should probably be to stand firm, refuse to give back the phone until he addresses what happened to his glasses, remain calm and approachable, and just get on with our lives until he chooses to engage, but it’s difficult not to be affected by everything that’s going on. I worry about the effect on DS2, who has a completely different personality. I am also fearful about what the next few months hold. DS1 is refusing to do any of the schoolwork that has been set for him over the summer and I think it’s quite possible he will drop out of the various sports clubs he belongs to when they resume in September; he has form for pulling out of matches at short notice when his mood is low. I worry that, if this sort of behaviour continues, he will seriously mess up his future. I’m also grieving for the sunny, affectionate boy he used to be. Can anyone offer any insights or suggestions? Thank you.

Turn off his internet access or remove his devices. He won't refuse to get help when there's nothing to distract him with.

He obviously needs help and I assume he's using the internet or gaming when he's alone in his room?

you'll have to stop that. It might...probably will cause a massive meltdown so if possible, get your younger child out of the house for a day.

But it has to be done. You do have my sympathy it sounds awful

Remember - teenagers you interact with that aren’t yours are likely very different at home. We all have a face for public, and few parents want to publicise the issues they have with their teens to others.

I don’t think turning the internet off is a good idea, or forcing him out of his room. I think that could make it worse, and would emphasise positive reinforcement for desirable behaviours.

I wonder what the relationship between the siblings is like? It sounds like a lot of his concerns stem from relationships he has, whether they be at school or at home. If there are consequences for his bad behaviour, but when his brother teasing him is ignored, that sends a message to him. He is held to a different standard, and isn’t treated equally - in his eyes.

He went on a bike ride and withdrew himself from a situation that was making him angry enough to lash out. That’s taking time out, and he chose to do that himself - which shows some decent emotional maturity. He then gets punished for doing this, which sends the wrong message. Should he text you so you don’t worry? Sure, but that’s not the focus - the emphasis should be on how proud you are of him recognising his own feelings. Did he still break his glasses, yes, but ultimately he tried to control things by withdrawing.

I think an amnesty might help. Forget the glasses, it’ll only lead to an argument about privacy and why you were in his private space/not being upfront and trying to catch him out. Start recognising good behaviour. It’s hard when you’re in the situation to see the wood for the trees sometimes, but it’ll help a lot. He will feel more supported, and that will eventually enable you to get his trust, and hopefully get him some anger management (in time).

Thanks, both - two very different perspectives.

@FortunesFave, we took his phone off him over a week ago and we still haven't given it back. He's also been banned from the Xbox. He does still have access to the internet via an old phone that has no SIM card. I wondered about taking that off him as well - I'm not sure what he can actually do with it - but I feel very uneasy at the moment about escalating things. We already seem to be in stalemate and I don't want to make things even worse.

@sergeilavrov, very interesting that you put a positive spin on the fact that he took himself off for a bike ride. I hadn't thought of it like that but I see what you mean, and it gives me some hope. I do worry, though, that he'll see us as caving in if we call a truce and return his phone. Maybe we were wrong to make the return of the phone conditional on his telling us what he'd done with his glasses, but won't we just look weak and inconsistent if we back down?

DS1 gets on well with his younger sibling most of the time but they are very different. DS2 is more outgoing and tends to verbalise things more, which makes any problems much easier to address. It wouldn't surprise me if DS1 is a bit envious of DS2's greater social ease. There's a certain amount of teasing and name-calling on both sides at times, some of it pretty unpleasant, and it occasionally ends in physical aggro. I feel on the whole that the boys should be able to sort out their own verbal battles, but one of us generally steps in with a reprimand when things turn physical (which, just to be clear, isn't often).

I think you're spot on about DS1 feeling that he's held to a different standard than his brother. He told me this himself - it's one of the few things he has said about the latest incident. I explained to him that the physical violence was the thing we reacted to because we felt it was much more serious than DS2's teasing, especially when DS1 is bigger and stronger. It's a line that he needs to learn not to cross. But I also acknowledged his comment about equality of treatment between him and his brother and told him that I would reflect on it.

If he doesn’t see adults he loves recognize when they maybe made a mistake, and be brave enough to explain why they did that and why they’re changing their decision, he won’t easily learn that level of reason and humility himself. To me, that’s what strength of character is. As a parent, it’s better to demonstrate consistent reflection, consideration and respect than just maintaining a line even when perspectives change.

I think it’s great you listened to his feelings on his brother, but I also think that saying you’ll reflect on something isn’t concrete enough for someone of that age. Instead, it could be, “I’m glad you shared that with me, and that’s something that I’m going to really think about. It’s important that you are both treated equally, and I need to reflect on how to ensure this happens. In two days, I’ll come and speak to you again about it and then we can work out how best to make sure things are fair together.” When you stick to that, it builds trust, he feels listened to and engaged, he knows his feelings are respected, and over time will help him come to you when something isn’t right instead of it escalating so far.

A couple of things that stood out to me.

1. I feel on the whole that the boys should be able to sort out their own verbal battles, but one of us generally steps in with a reprimand when things turn physical (which, just to be clear, isn't often). I see that to DS1 this means that DS2 'wins'. He is better verbally and socially so he gets to use his skills to be horrible. Only when DS1 retaliates physically do you step in. They shouldn't be insulting and denigrating each other.

1. The bottom line, though, is that most of the parents I know have made mistakes but their teenagers are nowhere near as bad as this; in fact, many of them are charming. It pains me that my own son is so unpleasant, angry and selfish, not to mention deeply unhappy. I have worked with 'challenging' young people. All delightful in the right environment. And that environment is rarely with their parents. You're supposed to be what they kick off from. If they were 100% happy in their family home, what would motivate them to go anywhere?

1. he doesn’t know that I found the smashed pair hidden in his room Never ever put anyone in a position where you are eliciting lies. Least of all with your children. If you know the glasses are broken, say you know the glasses are broken. If there is an issue with privacy that you agree is an issue, say you won't look around his room again and that you regret it and apologise. If you think you did the right thing finding the glasses,so that.

I feel for him, he's clearly really unhappy. And I'd go in with that. That you've seen he's unhappy and what can we all do to make that better.

Everything MrsTP just said, especially 1. Your DS2 is allowed to push his brother to the point where he reacts physically, knowing that you’ll then you step in because ‘we felt it was much more serious than DS2's teasing, especially when DS1 is bigger and stronger.’ You’re standing back and letting it happen.

He lashed out but he then took himself off to calm down and hasn’t done anything before or since this to make you worry. He needs an amnesty.

I’d make the boys’ rooms off limit to each other too and try to ask them to come out if you need to talk to them. That way they’ve both got their own space to retreat to if things are getting too much.

Thank you for these insights.

@MrsTerryPratchett I think unfortunately you're right about point 3. I haven't respected his privacy, but I also feel that to own up to having gone in search of the glasses would erode any trust that's left in the relationship.

I can see that from DS1's perspective DS2 wins, but I think it's fair to say that DS1 insults DS2 at least as often as he is on the receiving end. Both boys are equally good at dishing out verbal insults or goading each other, and both will occasionally lash out (I should add that they also get on very well in lots of situations). However, DS2 confided in me shortly before this incident that he sometimes feels he has to tiptoe around DS1 because he's scared of being hit. They aren't toddlers and I don't think it's appropriate for me to step in as referee every time there's a verbal disagreement, but physical violence is where I draw the line.

@AuntyPasta, I agree that an amnesty is probably needed. But this isn't a one-off incident; it's the latest episode in a pattern of rude, sulky, destructive behaviour that's gone on for several years. A year ago DS1 put his fist through his bedroom window in a fit of rage; on another occasion he smashed a picture I had bought for him. These are just examples, and there are many triggers - it isn't always about DS2. Sometimes, we don't actually know what it's about. We've told him that we are here to listen and we want to help him but he sulks for days and destroys objects instead of having a conversation with us.

I am at my wits' end because I don't know how to engage with a monosyllabic son who just tells me to 'go away'. It's particularly upsetting because DS1 and I were close when he was younger. Like him, I am an introvert so in many ways I could relate to him more than I could to DS2, but now it feels as though we have permanently lost that closeness we once had.

An update: I offered DS1 an olive branch this evening. I told him that I could see he was unhappy, that we aren't happy either, and I asked whether he thought we could establish a truce involving the return of his phone. Again, I acknowledged his feelings about being treated more harshly than DS2. I said there might be some things that DP and I could do differently and I suggested that we should sleep on it and sit down tomorrow to talk it through. I didn't even mention the broken glasses. He completely blanked me so in the end I just asked him to think about what I'd said and left the room.

I have also just done some soul searching with DP and we really don't think we have developed a pattern of treating DS1 unfairly compared with his brother. In fact, there have been occasions when DS2 has complained that we let DS1 get away with certain things. One thing that strikes me, though, is that it must be fairly obvious to DS1 that we have a better relationship with DS2 at the moment. Maybe he's acting out his jealousy. I would love things to improve with DS1 but I can't build a better relationship with somebody who refuses to speak to me.

I know getting blanked is tough. But keep to your word, and go through with your commitment. It will take time, and you being strong willed, but when he sees that you’re not turning away from him - he is likely to be more open. Tomorrow, I’d probably not go with saying you don’t feel he’s right about being treated differently - that won’t help. Set out some examples where you can see his view, encourage him to give more too. Even if some are simply that his behaviour is different, that’s fine. Remember, him getting away with stuff DS2 doesn’t might also be seen as you giving up on him. It’s about equal treatment.

Blanking can mean lots of things - but it’s not punching holes in walls, it’s not screaming, it’s not insults. Take that as a small step forward.

9 days is a long time to be sulking
What do you think he’s doing in his room?
It must be so difficult for you all

@GwenderellaBlobson

I don't really have any advice but I just wanted to say that I am in a similar situation with my DD12.

She won't leave her room except for food. She hates all of her siblings and me (she tells us regularly) she won't even look at me if I try to talk to her and generally just laughs at me if I try to get her to do anything.

I've contacted the GP to try to get a referral to CAMHS. She's so different to the happy confident ambitious child she was at primary school. I know teenagers are difficult but I have 2 older teenagers who have not been like this at all.

Reading all the replays for ideas!

@sergeilavrov, thank you, you've really helped me to get some perspective today and now I feel much calmer.

@Toomuchwork1 - he's 14, probably best not to ask what he's up to!

@passthemustard, so sorry to hear you're going through something similar. It's tough, and I have no real advice to offer either, but I hope it helps you to know that you're not alone. Occasionally I get a glimpse of a reasonable person under my son's surly facade. I think we have to keep on hoping that they'll turn out fine and we'll be able to laugh about this with them one day.

Blanking is a common enough response from a teenage boy who's having an emotionally confused time - it's a withdrawal similar to going off on his bike. He's got no idea how to sort himself out either.

9 days is pretty extreme. It must be very upsetting and confusing for you and for him as well. I doubt that he understands why he’s feeling this way or reacting so strongly.

Pretty similar here, even with sibling situation. Its tough, no solutions really we just keep saying we love him, try and be consistent and admit when we are in the wrong, hoping he will do same. Its the hardest job ever.

There are some very thoughtful insightful replies on here. I can't really add anything, but I do know that ds13 also lashes out in temper. DH stops him going off but like pp, I think he's realised when he needs timeout and I'm better letting him go.
DS gets extremely embarrassed when he lashes out and whilst he wouldn't admit it, that then fuels his temper more as he's so annoyed with himself. I've learned that he needs his space to calm down away from all of the family. He also needs to know that the incident will not be brought up time after time as he's unable to move on if that's the case.

Book the opticians to get new glasses and find something new that DS1 would agree to do that the glasses are essential for. Off-road driving lessons?
You need to interrupt this current stand off so it needs to be something exciting! It's not a reward for his bad behaviour but it is a lifeline to get communication going again.
Tell him he gets a car when he's 17 if he agrees!

Have you tried to simply give him a big hug?
It might break that barrier and also make him feel loved.

Of course you love DS2 more, of course you let him get away with evvvvvverything because he's your favourite and it's not fair! Is the thought process of every teenager. They only feel punishment when it affects them so they genuinely do not believe that you punish siblings as siblings losing their phone etc does not affect them.
I do agree with the pp who says it seems like DS2 'wins' if you punish him after being provoked. The fact DS2 has confided in you that he is 'scared of being hit' but then deliberately tries to invoke this response from his brother shows that he knows how to play you. Anger is difficult for boys, fight or flight combined with massive hormone surges and without the skills to regulate these feelings is really tough.

I'm very sorry to hear that some of you are dealing with similar issues and I hope this thread will give you some ideas for strategies.

@bisvuit A couple of times I have put my arm around his shoulder and been pushed violently away. I have also repeatedly told him that we love him and want to sort things out, but he just blanks me.

He won't cooperate with me in any way at the moment. One of my immediate challenges is how to get him to visit the optician to choose some new glasses. He had only had the latest pair for a couple of weeks. They were a replacement for a pair that he had lost, so it makes me quite angry that he has deliberately destroyed them.

What I am still struggling with somewhat is the suggestion that I shouldn't have punished him by taking his phone, or that I should now call a truce and return it when he hasn't budged an inch.

I feel we need to end this stalemate somehow but if I return the phone, won't he just feel that his persistent sulking has paid off? If he were prepared to sit down and talk about the incident in a constructive way I would probably feel differently, but so far that hasn't happened.

No doubt he felt unfairly treated. I think we need to have a conversation about that, but the bare facts are that he has lashed out at his brother and father, destroyed a pair of spectacles and sulked in his room (ten days and counting).

I totally get this OP
and we are in a similar situation but with an older sibling who is being badly affected by DD14s mood swings. I am actually worried about the impact on DD17s exams in the coming year now- she has her heart a very academic/competitive route, and needs a stable environment

Often the only way I have been able to coax Dd14 into communicating with us about what’s bothering in a calm manner (without her flying off the handle and land us all into further arguments) is to withhold her phone, until she is prepared to talk to me
I’m not sure if this makes me too controlling in my approach (as has been suggested by some of the other posts above), but I honestly don’t know how we can move on otherwise
It’s very tough when 1 child’s moods seem to be dominating things so much and having a very real impact on everyone else

I do also tell DD14 that I’m going to keep her phone as I’m worried about her mental health and she has got herself into a lot of stress with social media before, (and maybe that’s why she is acting out with all of her family) so I’m careful not to make it look too much like ‘punishment’ if you see what I mean

They aren't toddlers and I don't think it's appropriate for me to step in as referee every time there's a verbal disagreement, but physical violence is where I draw the line.

You know, I think you have a perfect right to make your house a safe haven where people do NOT insult each other or call each other names or tease. Do you like living in that kind of environment? Probably not. Then you have a right not to. Does your eldest like living in that kind of environment? Clearly not. Then he has a right not to.

I am sure you have house rules about things like not picking your nose at the dinner table and flushing the toilet when you've done a dump. It's good manners. It is perfectly possible to have a house rule about not insulting people. Perfectly normal good manners.

Given your boys' age, it would seem a good idea to have a family meeting about this and agree some general rules around teasing. Explain that it's for everybody's good: nobody likes listening to other people's bickering. And then be prepared to step in every time, not necessarily with punishment but with a firm reminder.

Your youngest should not refrain from teasing because he is afraid of his big brother. He should refrain because it is appalling manners.

As regards the phone, could you give a fixed time you're going to keep it for? Or a particular requirement? So, if you're pleasant to ds2 all day you get it back? I confiscate my teen's phone (actually he won't give it to me so I turn it off remotely) but if I give a reason and a clear consequence as if it was a school rule he accepts it. As for breaking things on purpose, my 13 year old had no pocket money for months and lost all his xmas money paying for breakages. He doesn't do it any more. I still paid for going out so he wasn't penniless. I think to make discipline work it has to be limited and contained. you could just say you've decide one week or whatever, rather than holding on to it indefinitely. Something else I've had to do is make return of phone or tech contingent on having an actual discussion about whatever issue it was, even if it's only 5 minutes. It's heartbreaking losing that pre-teen closeness - we just have to hope we get through it. Lockdown has been long and hard - even if they seem OK they probably aren't. Also really agree with the showing love and appreciation for the tiniest things (thanks for picking up that sock, ds!) Keep us posted.