14yo constantly in tears at me.

[peekaboob]

Really not sure where to start. I've suspected that DD is possibly autistic or ADD since she was a toddler (needed structure more than siblings, will only eat 5ish beige foods, no social awareness, can be massively inappropriate and other stuff) However - Brilliant pupil, ambassador for subjects and she can't put a foot wrong at school. Very proud of her for that, and tell her many a time.
At home we have rules, mainly centred around tech - one being none after 8pm. And I won't allow instagram, WhatsApp or tiktok. Some her friends have the same rules and get their tech confiscated as a result. She has a GoHenry card and one of the tasks she needs to do each week is the no tech rule. This week I've taken it off as it should be habit and I explained that I am switching that "paid" rule to keeping her room tidy. Cue the tears, how it's unfair that her siblings don't have to tidy theirs. Well, they keep theirs fairly tidy but DD will hide rubbish in drawers, between the mattress and sheet and generally it looks like the laundry basket exploded. I have 4 DC in total, one being a very active toddler and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a 14 yo to follow basic instructions.
But every request, however nicely put is met with tears if it's not followed through. And last night I suspected she was on her laptop late and went into her room, she pretended to be asleep so I took it and looked at the activity log which showed she'd been on it. I asked her this morning had she broken the rule which she said no then proceeded to cry, asking why I'm always on her back (I'm not), how her D.B. supposedly had his phone in bed (he didn't) and how I generally hate her and want to ruin her life. It's exhausting. To top it off her grandad just buys her expensive stuff which he'll also say to her "but this is for keeping your room tidy" and she doesn't and I have to be the bad guy by confiscating those items too. DF just says to me to keep on top of her every day and tell her. I just had a few words with him and said it's no fun having a child who constantly hates you, is in tears all the time etc for enforcing the removal of the stuff he's bought that I never wanted in my house anyway.
We've already seen a specialist for her eating, who said that she suspects Autism and to get a formal diagnosis through the school. School are saying that she is a lovely model pupil and can see no issue with her behaviour.
The behaviours have got steadily worse since the arrival of ToddlerDD but they have always been there.
Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

I have nothing. I can only say that you sound like a really good mum. You are getting everything right. DD is lucky to have you even if she doesn't know it right now.

Cut yourself and DD some slack if you can. Blitz that room together for a few weeks if you can find time. It might just form a new habit.

You never compromise on tech and that's absolutely right.

Bloody parenting high five to you lady!! You have got this.

Sorry it's so hard for you. That's not fair but you are doing amazingly.

Your DD is 14, you are being very restrictive regards tech for her age, it must make your dd feel you don’t trust her or her judgement.
Parents need to find a balance of rules and trust and to teach her about safe online use.
My DD is 14 and has these apps, she is sensible and is aware of safe use. You’re treating her like a 10 yr old, she will keep pushing back if you keep being so restrictive.

@SummerHouse Thank you 😊
She's only recently moved into that room, it must be a matter of weeks and I took holiday from work so that I could paint it, move furniture etc. I bought her all new bedding that she wanted and a nice big laundry hamper. Most of the time I feel like she's just sticking her fingers up to me with a great big FU mum. But I know that's not the case, I don't think she is aware of what she is doing until she's being punished for it.

@JKScot4 she has broken my trust many a time. She asked for her own YouTube channel, I said No and we discussed validation through people, not likes from strangers etc. She did it anyway.
She had WhatsApp last year and I found out she had sent her friends a quiz about her (one that you can link to) and in it it asked does she like vanilla or hardcore? So I'm not being restrictive just because. Every time I give her some slack she takes it too far. She was a Digital Ambassador for internet safety at her last school yet can't put into practice what she talked to the pupils about.
As I've said, I don't think she is NT and compared to my other DC I would put her with an emotional age of around 9/10.

JKScot4 Wed 26-Feb-20 11:06:48
Your DD is 14, you are being very restrictive regards tech for her age, it must make your dd feel you don’t trust her or her judgement.
Parents need to find a balance of rules and trust and to teach her about safe online use.
My DD is 14 and has these apps, she is sensible and is aware of safe use. You’re treating her like a 10 yr old, she will keep pushing back if you keep being so restrictive.
......
I agree and cannot imagine putting such restrictions on a 14 year old - which inevitably lead to rebellion.

Yes, she could keep her room tidy or at least, reasonably so. Perhaps someone else could talk to her about responsibilities like that, it doesn't always work coming from a parent.

Technology can be really dangerous. The Internet is a wild west and much of it isn't safe or suitable for kids. Also because spending too much time on tech pushes out other activities and experiences that kids should be having IRL to develop their bodies, brains and social skills. I'm going to be fighting the same battles as you when my kids are older.

My DC are aged 10, 12 and 14 and you do sound to me like a strict parent in terms of rules and punishments etc. I’m honestly not judging you, we’re all different and you have to find whatever works for you and your family, but that might help explain why she feels that she has less freedom than other kids her age.

Maybe you could try to remove some rules. Have a think about which rules are essential in your opinion and which ones could be relaxed slightly. Does it really matter if her room is a mess?

I think it’s worth pursuing the ASD thing. My DD is 8 and I’ve had concerns about her behaviour since Reception. Very similar reasons to yours (almost identical actually), but also great at school. Then her younger sibling exhibited some much more obvious traits and my focus went on him. Now I know he’s autistic I’m questioning DD again.

Long story short, I’ve started the ball rolling. The autism HV I spoke to said I was right to do this, because it’s best to know and get the support rather than have them struggle. And that it often gets much more difficult once the teenage years hit, especially with girls.

You don’t need the school‘s say so to get a referral. I’m sure my DD’s school have no concerns with her whatsoever.

@IceColdCat There are three rules she has to stick to: no tech after 8, tidy room, shower every day. Reasons being I can't trust her on tech, I was spending 6 hours a month sorting her room out as she was hiding rubbish, and food remnants so there was a hygiene issue and she has terrible BO if she doesn't shower each day.

As I've said - she is not a typical 14 yo. At her age I was travelling the tube and going for lunch with friends. She still plays with American girl dolls.

@Haworthia HV referred us to the eating specialist. The eating specialist said to go to the GP to get the referral. GP said it needs to come from school. School say there is nothing wrong and she's a model pupil.

Ugh, the buck passing! The referral process seems so different according to region, but here you get referred to the Community Paediatrics department and either the GP, HV, or even speech therapists can do it. Do you have any local autism support services in your area? Autism support groups on Facebook? It’s really worth finding out from local people in the know how you get into the system, and then you can do some chasing yourself. The schools cannot be the only gatekeepers here, honestly they can’t. So frustrating!

I'll give the Hv another try I think. Even if they can just give me some tips.

Gosh 14 and now instagram or whats app is quite harsh imo. Unfortunately this is part of a teenagers world now and if it is monitored she should be able to use it safely. Maybe you should let her have these apps but with some control 50/50 between you and her at the moment it sounds like you have complete control of her leisure time and she is beginning to rebel. You don't want to push her away that she complete rebels and ends up with a secret phone and accounts. Teenagers especially girls just want to be part of the crowd and accepted by their peers but this is very hard for them to forge friendships if they don't have access to social media. My dd has insta and whats app but I check her phone most nights she also has tik tok but she doesn't post any videos she just prances about to the silly music and saves it on her phone, that is my one rule and she sticks to it. As long as all homework is done I don't have restrictions on time to come off her phone she likes it for an alarm so she keeps it in her room overnight - but I have never caught her on it after about 10pm as she is tired by then and is ready to sleep. I think at this age you have to be very careful on what rules to instill as they will find a way to break them!!

WhatsApp is 16+ so I don't feel bad about it.
I don't want her getting sucked into insta, she's too easily led and it was also in the advice of the eating specialist.
As I've said she is not a normal 14 yo, I'd put her at around 10 emotionally. Totally not street wise and this is not because I am restricting her, she doesn't want to meet friends, walk to town etc.

My DD is a little bit like this, Happy being at home and doing stuff with us. Does she have any interests?? Have you thought about her maybe joining a swimming group, or a theatre school or guides. Guides and most theatre schools offer taster weeks so she can try it to see if she likes it. My daughter does guides and theatre school on a saturday so this keeps her busy which actually means she doesn't have loads of time to be on her phone and she is always researching and doing stuff to do with these things. Just an idea but may give her something else to focus on rather than pushing back at you!!

Could there be something going on at school/with friends?

No nothing going on with friends or school. She usually leaves me notes if she can't talk face to face but nothing of the sort of late.
There aren't really any clubs round here - she goes to coding club at school and is doing her duke of Edinburgh.

Putting aside the possible Autism for a minute...
She sounds very hormonal and I wonder if that might be heavily at play here. I’m wondering this because I was very very hormonal at this age. My poor Mum and Dad said they couldn’t even make a nice simple request without me bursting into tears like it was the end of the world. They were baffled and I’d often see them look at each other while I bawled my eyes out as if to say ‘god help us’.

I was a fairly quiet and nice child, doing well in school, normal home life etc...but my hormones kicked in and whoosh. Life was suddenly so unfair on me.
If I got asked to do anything I would feel victimised, if I got a slight ticking off I would cry, flounce off to my bedroom and sulk for an hour. I remember my mum finally cracking after another one of my ‘flouncing’ episodes and she sat with me and asked me for the umpteenth time what was going on. I couldn’t even tell her because I didn’t know! I was just super sensitive to anything I perceived as ‘negative’.

The behaviours you explain in your post have just resonated with my memories of being a very super sensitive and hormonal young teen. If she is happy in all other aspects of life in general as you obviously seem to know she is, then is it a possibility it’s just hormones?

No tech past 8pm at 14? Thats totally unacceptable for her age and you are being way too strict there

I disagree with you, Busymum45. I think 8pm is a perfectly acceptable time to put down your phone when you're 14 and start winding down in the day, ready for bed. The child is still at school and health experts advise to come off screens at least an hour before bed so that your body can prepare for sleep.

Peekaboob, I think you're doing a great job. I'm sorry I can't advise, but I think you sound like you are trying to reach out to her and make it possible for her to communicate to you in whichever way she feels comfortable. This too shall pass.

She's 14 not 4,I think you are being unnecessarily restrictive. At that age ds didn't have his phone after 9pm so I understand not having it in the evening but no apps? And what's wrong with WhatsApp? How is that different from texting?
She'll find a way to rebel if you clamp down too hard or just buy another phone with her own money

Hi, just read your post and it really
Sounds like my DD.

Our DD has been seeing a counsellor as she is anxious, depressed, doesn't like going out, socially isolated herself and leaves herself lists for everything. She is also a straight A student and an ambassador for her school and apparently an ideal student, very polite, has a couple of friends and no-one at school thinks there is anything to worry about with her. However at home it's a very different story (she is a master at masking), her room is like your DD's, she feels different from other girls, feels sad, doesn't socialise and has specific different interests which other girls don't understand.

Within 2 sessions our counsellor says she suspects high function autism or aspergers. The counsellor has been amazing.

Having read a book loaned to us by the counsellor we realised just how right her suspicion is and how our parenting has been very wrong, it was totally unsupportive to ask them to keep your room tidy (give them a list, it really will help), ask them what you can do to help them, if they say nothing. Believe it. If they don't know what is wrong they genuinely don't. Our DD doesn't like hugs and all we want to do is hug her to tell her we love her.

My daughters lifeline has been Instagram (she is 12) where she can message other girls like her (we haven't told her yet), if she didn't have this she would certainly be struggling far more. Our counsellor says it's important for her mental health she can chat online. Some HF autistics can't form the words to say how they feel and it's far easier to write it down.

All that said I monitor my DD's use (she knows this is to keep her safe) and she has given me her password. Is that a way forward for you both?

Hi op not sure if you're still checking the thread?

Anyway I wanted to say my 14yo dd is similar and we're on the autism assessment pathway. If you have concerns then speak to her G.P and get her referred to be assessed. A diagnosis would make a massive difference in terms of your understanding her and the support/structure/expectations she needs.

FWIW I have let my dd have WhatsApp and she does watch tiktok videos. I keep a very close eye on what she does on her phone and have parental controls in place.

It sounds like some of the tears you're getting are because you've moved the goal posts slightly. If your dd has got ASD you will need to approach all of these issues differently.

Thanks all, I have a lot on so haven't looked at this thread. However, to those referring to her saying she's 14. This is only in years. Academically she is 14, emotionally around age 10.
If she has WhatsApp she gets added to groups, this is something you cannot change with WhatsApp. In these groups was some really vile language and behaviour with challenges set. Texting bypasses all that.

Anyway.... as I mentioned in my OP we saw an eating specialist which suggested possible autism. I did go to my GP who said go to the school who said there was nothing wrong with her.
This morning I lift her closely guarded school bag up. It is very heavy and there's a padlock on it. I asked her why her bag was so heavy and she immediately disappears so there is a lot of toing and froing with me asking her to open the bag and her getting herself more worked up just saying no. No threats were made, I was very calm and just said she would be going to school without her bag if it wasn't opened.
She took the padlock off and in it was her bags as well as about 30 rotten sandwiches.
Am now at a loss as to what to do. I'm going to call both the doctors and the school but any advice would be greatly appreciated. Will add pic of the bag.

Here is the bag. I'd taken a few out.

Op you need to arrange a meeting with school SENCO and go armed with a list of all the behaviours that are not typical. If it helps I listed behaviours into categories such as friendship issues, communication, sensory processing but also include very specific examples such as you've done here.

Even if the school aren't seeing any unusual behaviour they should still be taking your concerns seriously and not disregarding them.

You can also (in my area) self refer to SLT and OT and I would recommend assessments from as many different professionals as possible. Look on the local community health trust website under children's services.