DD 15 should I be concerned WWYD

[Menopauseandteensdontmix100]

DD year 10/just turned 15 was a lovely cuddly affectionate child until she went to secondary. She was bullied in year 7 and 8 and I really tried to help with this but they were sly, school weren’t brilliant and it didn’t really help.
This had a massive effect on her confidence she became quieter, withdrew more from us and was pulling at her hair.
Anyway I have still always tried my best to maintain our relationship and continued to show an interest in her, tell her I love her, tried to take her clothes shopping which she hates and gone out for coffee and cake and out with the dog as well as suggesting other things to do together and encouraging her to meet up with her friends.
She has Dyslexia and has always done ok at school in terms of behaviour and average for her grades (slightly above in maths and sciences). But DS a year older is extremely bright so this can’t be easy for her.
She has a small group of school friends quieter more introverted less popular but a more inclusive gang. She sees them at school but doesn’t see them that often out of school.
I know they change when they are teenagers but she is addicted to her phone barely speaks to me at all which I find hard, seems to hate me and shows me little or no respect. She hates being touched and if I try to touch her (give her a cuddle or touch her shoulder) she goes berserk and calls me a paedo.
I have tried different strategies at different times to picking my battles, letting her away with some things (as I felt a bit sorry for her not having the best time and not wanting to make her home life unpleasant), to trying to take a hard line over her swearing at me, not listening, lying and leaving her room like an unhygienic pig sty.
Anyway she hasn’t eaten meat for about a year but won’t eat fruit at all and will only rarely eat veg. She is tall and average build but exists on a very bland/beige diet. I can see what she has eaten for school meals and it’s like a bottle of water and a small plain roll or occasionally chips and gravy. Or water and a tray bake so eating very little at school. I have asked her to suggest some meals she does like and taken her shopping but it’s hard work and she doesn’t know what she wants to eat so can’t tell me.
She seems to much prefer DH these days who is really chilled and I am bad cop. He says just ignore her (but I love her and don’t want to loose touch with her and find this difficult to do). She doesn’t get pocket money as she would blow the lot on chocolate but we give her money if she is going out with friends.
Any advice for surviving the next few years so she doesn’t go off the rails without being too OTT for her sanity and mine.

Should say having read this back she must feel smothered by me so that’s probably making her back off even more.
I found it far easier parenting when they were younger. I just worry she’ll go off the rails and want to be a good mum and her to know she is loved.

Bumping for you. Mine aren't that old yet so I am sure someone will be along soon with better advice but for me the bit that jumped out is her reaction when you give her a cuddle. That would worry me. Can you involve her in cooking etc and try inviting some of her 'group' around? Is she close to any other grown ups she might talk to? ( Auntie, mates mum etc). If there's something going on she may open up better to someone who's not so close...

Thanks no unfortunately. My parents and siblings live fairly nearby but have had little involvement with my two (which was their choice). My parents much preferred first born overbearing niece 16 months older than DS but who lives closer to them. DH’s family live much further away. It was hard going when they were younger as DH worked extremely long hours including travel so I felt like I was mum, dad, aunties, uncles and both sets of grandparents to them. The three of us were always very closer when younger. DS will still sometimes have the occasional cuddle or sit close whilst watching TV or when he is in bed and wanting to chat. But DD won’t entertain the idea anymore.

Really sympathise with you as my daughter of 20 is still like this with me. Can be lovely one minute but horrible the next,its almost like she is punishing me. I've asked her to talk to me but she wont.
The next day she is fine.
I have two boys and they are so different,no moods,no grudges. Yes they may thump the wall now and then bit it's over and done with. They also hug me sometimes but daughter never.
No advise but I hope it gets easier for you.

All I can say is just keep on being there and eventually she will almost certainly become more human again. Don’t pressure her about food, give her what everyone is eating and it’s her choice whether or not to simply eat it or make herself something different. Let the swearing etc go. It’s not really personal and if you are constantly telling her off you will sound as though you dislike her even if you don’t. Just try and keep it light (not easy) and don’t argue. If she is looking for a fight back down and carry on with normal life. Sometimes they get into such a negative state of mind they can’t get out of it and spiral into the pits of despair or anger regardless of what you do.

It’s been said before but it’s a phase, they’re just bigger and angrier but usually your just the sounding board rather than the cause.

We’re coming on the other side now and it’s lovely. Not perfect, we still have our moments but generally we know that we love each other and it’s working.

Sorry kerkyra 💐 you are still going through this I was hoping it would just be a phase. But mine doesn’t seem to be ending.

Thanks Inforthelonghaul good advice I am sick of my own voice most of the time. I feel like a cross between a skivvy, door mat and a sergeant major most days. I want to be there from my children and enjoy them too albeit probably only on the odd occasion 😂

Hi op,
Sorry you are going through this.
I highly recommend reading:

Lisa Damour
Untangled: Guiding Teenage Girls Through the Seven Transitions into Adulthood

It may give you some tools to help you through this period.
Good luck

If she gravitates towards your DH and you trust he is a good parent, then just let her.

She'll come back to you when she's ready. Just keep a watchful eye out whilst giving her space, ask DH for updates, keep telling her you love her but hold her accountable for things you expect from her - politeness, chores etc. You're her parent, not her best friend.

Find the teen forum here and read the “hanging on” passage. It’s really powerful. You’re not alone- back off a bit but remain open to HER suggesting things to do. But have your own life too. She needs you to know she isn’t the centre of the world as thats too much pressure for her.

Just noticed this IS the teenager forum sorry!
Here is the passage though-

This fight we are in right now. I need it. I need this fight. I can’t tell you this because I don’t have the language for it and it wouldn’t make sense anyway. But I need this fight. Badly. I need to hate you right now and I need you to survive it. I need you to survive my hating you and you hating me. I need this fight even though I hate it too. It doesn’t matter what this fight is even about: curfew, homework, laundry, my messy room, going out, staying in, leaving, not leaving, boyfriend, girlfriend, no friends, bad friends. It doesn’t matter. I need to fight you on it and I need you to fight me back.

I desperately need you to hold the other end of the rope. To hang on tightly while I thrash on the other end—while I find the handholds and footholds in this new world I feel like I am in. I used to know who I was, who you were, who we were. But right now I don’t. Right now I am looking for my edges and I can sometimes only find them when I am pulling on you. When I push everything I used to know to its edge. Then I feel like I exist and for a minute I can breathe. I know you long for the sweeter kid that I was. I know this because I long for that kid too, and some of that longing is what is so painful for me right now.

I need this fight and I need to see that no matter how bad or big my feelings are—they won’t destroy you or me. I need you to love me even at my worst, even when it looks like I don’t love you. I need you to love yourself and me for the both of us right now. I know it sucks to be disliked and labeled the bad guy. I feel the same way on the inside, but I need you to tolerate it and get other grownups to help you. Because I can’t right now. If you want to get all of your grown up friends together and have a ‘surviving-your-teenager-support-group-rage-fest’ that’s fine with me. Or talk about me behind my back--I don’t care. Just don’t give up on me. Don’t give up on this fight. I need it.

This is the fight that will teach me that my shadow is not bigger than my light. This is the fight that will teach me that bad feelings don’t mean the end of a relationship. This is the fight that will teach me how to listen to myself, even when it might disappoint others.

And this particular fight will end. Like any storm, it will blow over. And I will forget and you will forget. And then it will come back. And I will need you to hang on to the rope again. I will need this over and over for years.

I know there is nothing inherently satisfying in this job for you. I know I will likely never thank you for it or even acknowledge your side of it. In fact I will probably criticize you for all this hard work. It will seem like nothing you do will be enough. And yet, I am relying entirely on your ability to stay in this fight. No matter how much I argue. No matter how much I sulk. No matter how silent I get.

Please hang on to the other end of the rope. And know that you are doing the most important job that anyone could possibly be doing for me right now.

Love, Your Teenager

Thanks I should print it off and pin it to the kitchen cupboard.
I came in from work tonight and asked her to please hang her coat up (which was strewn on the breakfast bar), to put her shoes away that were abandoned next to the washing machine and pick her rucksack up which was also left on the work surface and if she did that while I unpacked the shopping then she could have a cookie. She’s now gone upstairs to her room having ranted, had a cookie but not had any tea yet. No way would she eat what we are having she will make her own tea (margarita pizza, beans on toast, spaghetti on toast, eggs bread or smiley faces and beans).
I’ll leave her to DH a bit more he works long hours is a good parent but very laid back doesn’t go in much for organisation/forward planning or talking to much likes a lot of down time slumped on the couch on his phone, watching tv programs from 30 years ago or disappearing to the loo for ages.

Your own child calls you a paedo?

She'd not be very popular with me for sure.

Love that piece Isadora.
Am going through similar.

Maybe work out a line in the sand - what annoys you but you can live with and what you absolutely will not stand for? You could discuss with her - say I know it seems like we are arguing a lot lately - can we agree on a b c and I will stop nagging you about x y z.

For example, for me, I would leave her alone if she's cooking her own food - as long as she's eating something she's not going to starve. Perhaps it might not be the healthiest stuff but at least it's real food not just crisps. There are a lot of children who have restricted diets but most grow out of it naturally as they get older and start trying new things.

Bedroom - could say definitely nothing dirty (e.g used plates) but other than that if it's messy (clothes on floor) that's up to her - it doesn't really affect you, does it?

She obviously doesn't like it when you touch her so stop doing it. You wouldn't like it if someone touched you against your will? However tell her that if you do something she doesn't like she has to tell you politely - calling you a paedo is ridiculous and disgusting.

Basically just redefine the boundaries, and have dh back you up.

15 is a horrible age, my two were both pretty unbearable too. Nothing horrendous, but similar to your to your daughter, they were moody, messy, sarcastic, no interest in anything apart from Xbox and their phones. DS2 was a terrible eater and lived on chicken nuggets and pizza. DS1's preferred diet was fizzy drinks and sweets .

Happily, they improved as soon as they left school and went to college!

I’m just placemarking

We had a massive fight about a month ago and she wouldn't speak to me for 3 weeks. I eventually gave in and sent her a long email apologising and telling her how much I loved her. We're back on speaking terms now! Her response to me was 'Read your email. You give out too much and you really know nothing about me, but it's ok now'.
I remember hating my mother as a teen. How little she knew about me or my life. I guess we don't know what's going on for them. She's a good kid overall. I guess I'll just keep holding that rope while she goes through the storm!

She's 15 & you offered her a cookie if she tidied up?
15... not 5, right? Or 3, even. I can't begin to think what derision I'd get from my teens if I offered them a cookie reward for tidying up.

I know at a gut level things you're doing wrong but I'm not sure how to explain it. You're not ... showing her respect. Not acknowledging she's got to make her own decisions (which will include mistakes), or giving her enough space in general. Smothering probably describes it.

The thing is she will have seen you walk through the front door, demand she does x y and z and then she can have a reward.

Try coming in and saying hello, asking about her day, telling her you've brought cookies and are putting kettle on is she ways one and tea. When you've got positive rapport going then ask she chucks her things away quick to clear a space for the tea and biscuit.

Or even set some rules and chores up. So she has to do these things when she comes in and then she can access Netflix or wi fi or whatever. Switch it around so the doing these things is positive and not a nag.

I know she should be doing them but if she's dyslexic she's probably using an awful amount of extra energy just getting through the day.

To be honest, if I was told to do xyz the minute I came in the door from school I'd probably be a little pissed off too. And I'm supposedly an adult!

The thing is she will have seen you walk through the front door, demand she does x y and z and then she can have a reward.
Try coming in and saying hello, asking about her day, telling her you've brought cookies and are putting kettle on is she ways one and tea. When you've got positive rapport going then ask she chucks her things away quick to clear a space for the tea and biscuit.

This sounds like a nice suggestion for future, though you might get told to f off depending on the day lol.

YeOldeTrout - thanks. I had just finished work after, called to the supermarket to get her some eggs as she had decided she wanted eggy bread for tea and some big chocolate cookies which she had also asked for and she wanted as she had, had no lunch. She wasn’t actually tidying up the house she was putting her school things away her own school things which should have been done when she first came in. She asked me to get her a cookie. So I said I am putting the shopping away. Why don’t you pick up your things bag, shoes & coat and when you are up and have done it you can get a cookie yourself.

They see us as rulemakers. Dictators even. They can't imagine that we have gone through what they're going through as we seem so far removed from a typical teenager. So they don't identify with us really. We've a different role and it's not necessarily a rewarding one!!

Menopauseandteensdontmix100 It might be worth getting some vegetarian recipe books. Indian cooking (I'm thinking Dahl etc.) can be tasty and nutritious if she likes spicy food - made with lentils. A lot of vegan stuff can be good too - so use Quorn mince for lasagne or bolognese. Maybe get in some Veggie burgers or something with protein for her. Thankfully mine is a voracious carnivore, though she will now choose a side salad with her main rather than potato and veg.

If she's not strictly veggie, things like fish fingers, or home-made chicken goujons are good. Would she eat a tuna sandwich?
At their age, they start getting obsessed about their weight and healthy eating too, so maybe let her take charge on that.
Nuts too - if she likes chocolate - maybe get her chocolate with nuts in for protein.

This is very similar to my relationship with dd15 and what she has gone through.

Only her small group of introverted friends seem to have got fed up with her and don’t bother outside school much to her dismay. They meet up without her and this has led to low self esteem and she has also recently been bullied by an old primary school friend who attends the same secondary school.

She has always been the glass is empty type and I wonder if her negativity has driven friends away. She’s recently started cbt, only done 2 sessions but happy to go and in good form when she comes out. It’s a voluntary group that run the one to one sessions.

Not sure if you can relate to this but I know exactly what you are going through, I get so stressed that she seems so down despite the endless efforts to speak to her and things I buy her.

Otherwise she is a lovely girl and doing well at school. I’m holding on tight to the end of the rope too !