To encourage parents to be involved in their teenagers job applications?!

[sirmione16]

I'm hiring for a part time weekend staff, ideal for a young person. However in the past week I've had multiple CVs with embarrassing opening paragraphs, awful spelling and grammar, people not answering the phone then texting "who is this" when they applied the day before (I use a work mobile and leave a message) Now, I've just had a girl reply that she can't do a phone interview because she has anxiety but would like a trial shift opportunity. When I replied very politely thanking her for her application and for being honest, and that anxiety would not be an issue in some positions however the role wouldn't suit her if she finds a telephone interview hard - her literal reply was "wow OK, that'll teach me for being honest with anyone" that's the whole email. I'm godsmacked. Fortunately I have had some successful interviews and trials, but this attitude is awful - aren't schools teaching CV writing any more? Aren't parents guiding teenagers on professionalism and conduct?! What is going on?!

You said you wrote it for him so presumably you wrote it for him.

I mean more content-related. Your writing style will likely be much more professional and sophisticated than his so it'll look bizarre when he updates it, is what I meant.

Ah i see what you both mean. Sadly i was taught this at school and he wasnt. He is now at college and they wont teach them how to do it there either. Our parents are no help i had to write my fathers cv once he left the forces as he had no idea at all how they were done. Him and my dbro gave me multiple awful cvs to edit so i had to repeatedly explain and send them links. With dbro he is also dyslexic and struggles a lot with writing although he can say what he wants to convey perfectly. If you want something written from him he will take about 9 hours to do half a sheet of a4 but it will be lovely to read afterwards. He is training to be a mechanic thankfully otherwise he would be pretty fucked.

OP, I agree with you. A lot of teens and young adults don’t really fill you with confidence when it comes to seeking employment.

That said, you have discriminated against her. You may find that she takes this further, and it sounds like she had a pretty clear-cut case, based on what you’ve said here.

Please be more careful in future. If an applicant disclosed a medical condition that may be a disability, it’s not up to you to determine what they are or are not able to do. That’s down to a medical professional. It’s fair to say “here’s a bit about the role- it involves speaking to people in person and over the phone to process orders” so that the applicant has the information they need to establish if it’s of interest to them.

Ah he'll be ok once he's trained then as it tends to be more word of mouth than anything else. If he can prove his worth he'll be fine!

To be fair to the OP, if the application clearly mentions there'll be a phone interview or that receiving phone calls is a pivotal part of the role, should the applicant not have stated this on their application?

If the advertisement clearly mentions, sorry

www.mind.org.uk/media/23456568/discrimination-at-work-2018.pdf

To be fair to the OP, if the application clearly mentions there'll be a phone interview or that receiving phone calls is a pivotal part of the role, should the applicant not have stated this on their application?

Even if the job ad did mention lots of telephone work, it could be the case that the applicant would be fine day-to-day but her anxiety is linked to things like interviews.

The applicant requested a reasonable accommodation due to disability, and wasn’t granted that.

Refusing to interview her due to anxiety is terrible.

I have enormous job interview anxiety. It’s debilitating, but luckily only manifests in job interviews. I’m normally very confident and friendly. I regularly speak at big conferences, successfully chair meetings with high powered people and occasionally get interviewed for media appearances.

I just have job interview anxiety. Seems stupid to reject someone just for that, particularly when they’ve suggested an alternative that would better enable you to assess whether they were right for the job.

Ah yes @PaperbackBlighter. I thought I'd read that it was a telephone-related role but I must have made that up

Definitely discriminatory to assume she'll be crap in a customer facing role.

I have severe anxiety and really struggle with job interviews/meetings etc but have excelled in numerous customer facing roles because I know my triggers and can actively manage them - something which it's not possible to do in a restrictive, confined space like an interview.

I agree op.
My teenager wants a job. Not quite old enough yet for anything other than a paper round. He'll work hard to earn his wage when he gets a job. I don't expect him to write an immaculate cv or covering letter the first time round. So I'll help him!
Many adults it appears can't do this either!

I wonder if the applicant just had anxiety surrounding the phone interview (like most people bloody do face of a phone interview) or actually diagnosed with GAD.

Everyone is just jumping the gun and assuming it's a medically diagnosed situation. Of course the OP would be on shaky ground to challenge this, but I suspect a lot of cases are to do less with mental disorders and more to do with a lack of resilience. Dons hard hat.

Anxiety is also a perfectly normal emotion, not necessarily a disorder. If someone used the word 'nervous' in the same context, people would be like 'duh.'But the word' anxiety'is automatically associated with being mentally ill.

@virginpinkmartini my anxiety is diagnosed but I knew I had anxiety beforehand. I didn't need a doctor to tell me so.

However I do agree the word is banded about too freely these days, to the detriment of everyone it would seem.

Presumably their parents can’t teach them because they’re hopeless themselves? Anyone with normal parents learn normal manners at a young age and can navigate things like job applications on their own (even if it is a bit of a learning curve). If someone behaves the way you have described it’s because they haven’t learned basic manners, if they haven’t learned basic manners it’s safe assumption that their parents don’t have them either, if their parents don’t have basic manners that won’t be able to give any good advice re finding a job.

I live in Ireland where some schools have a non exam year c. age 16. Part of this year involves some work experience. The idea is that the kids try out careers they might like (or get a foot in the door for a summer job). The vast majority of my friends have done all the applying and legwork involved for their children. I was about that. The only kid who did the asking and applying herself was one of the most sheltered but her parents insisted she propel herself into a job. I don't know whether it's had a long term effect (ie are they any less motivated) on any of them but the parents don't seem in the least embarrassed at walking into a business and saying: will you give my little Johnny a job?

@Giveherhellfromus Of course. Not every person who has GAD will be diagnosed. It doesn't mean they aren't suffering.

But it seems like saying that something is giving you anxiety means that now an employer cannot even suggest that the role may not be right for you, for fear of being discriminatory. If I went into a call centre job, and fluffed the interview, if I was to call back and say 'I had really bad anxiety which is why I could not participate in the role-play' would they be obliged to go out of their way to accommodate because I used the 'A' word?

I agree, helped my son with applications and CV when he was first starting out. Let's face it though some adults would be the same as the applicants you have had!

@virginpinkmartini I think that was the point I was trying to make earlier. I think if you feel your anxiety will affect the application/interview process you need to declare it when applying so that the necessary support can be provided.

I don't think you should be allowed to use it as an excuse in hindsight, or declare it part way through the process and still expect it to be accommodated for.

I, personally, will try and battle through the interview (which is a massive trigger for me) process. If I get through the whole thing without a panic attack/needing to leave for air then great. If I can't, fine. I never need to see those people again. If I feel comfortable in an environment I can generally control my anxiety so if an interview/person can trigger that, it's probably not right for me anyway.

This is like homework. Of course, the parent shouldn't be "doing it", but they should be helping as needed and reviewing it to offer feedback etc.

Not good at all just to abdicate responsibility and let your child waste their time, get demoralised etc.

If I went into a call centre job, and fluffed the interview, if I was to call back and say 'I had really bad anxiety which is why I could not participate in the role-play' would they be obliged to go out of their way to accommodate because I used the 'A' word?

After an interview, no. Before an interview, if reasonable accommodation is requested due to a disability, that must be taken in to account. How “reasonable” an adjustment is is up for the employer to decide, but doing what OP did in this situation is leaving herself very open to a claim of discrimination. She declined to progress the applicant based solely on the applicant disclosing the fact that she has an anxiety issue. That’s discrimination.

I've been doing screen interviews for a mid range role that needs a lot of experience, so not new to the workplace type thing. Really peeves me when we agree a time to chat and the phone is answered with a half sleepy 'hello???'.

I'm not about to get into any more details regarding her being given a position or not etc. I take on board point about anxiety manifesting it different situations. That my oversight, not a discrimination. However, on the other hand, she could definitely had replied something like "thank you for your concern, but I can assure you I will perform better in a trial shift scenario and wondered if that would be possible rather than an interview?" or explained it more. I don't think her attitude or reply was appropriate and that ruined it for me, not the anxiety issue.

Not everyone who "has anxiety " is legally classified as disabled.

It's no better for older applicants. I own a small business and you'd be horrified at the state of the majority of the job applications I get.

And yes to a PP - I've also read some awful CVs from adults too. Even with some decent employment history. It's a shame in my eyes because you don't know fully about a person in a badly written CV. I'm fully open to someone being great and not being able to write one. It's just hard to spot them.