Depressed, self harming 13 year old

[Luella29]

DD told me a few months ago that she has self harmed. Thankfully she wasn't seriously hurt and with her permission we went straight to the doctors who referred her to CAMHS. We have an initial appointment in April which I think is to determine what service we get referred to next. She said she felt we were paying more attention to her sisters so we made some changes to get her out of her room at weekends, including removing all social media and all seemed much better. It's really frustrating as we try and include her but she just wants to moap about in her room.

I told her school who tbh haven't offered any help. They just said they would ask the teachers not to let her out alone during lesson time but there was no offer of counselling etc. Maybe I expected too much.

It all seemed to have calmed down until last week. I had asked her not to tell her friends as I didn't think they would be sympathetic. Dd is in year 8 and had a wobbly start to year 7 with friends so this group of friends is quite new. Unfortunately, dd had told one of her friends who in turn told her mum. The mum then sent dd messages via her DD's phone saying she felt they shouldn't hang out with each other anymore and the friend cut dd out of the group by refusing to speak to her. The girls all chose the other girl so dd is now sitting alone at break and lunch time which is making things much worse. The mum also reported the self harming to the head of year but she knew already from me. It hasn't made any difference to the lack of support dd gets at school.

I found a diary in DD's room last night which was full of feelings of self hate and saying she had no friends etc. She is constantly saying people don't like her, she doesn't 'get' people and she finds noise in the school overwhelming. She thinks she's depressed. The last date in the diary is just over a week ago and she says shes self harmed. I haven't seen any marks on her and when I ask her she says she hasn't.

I just don't know what to do. I have no one to talk too. I spoke to my mum who suggested it was my fault for giving her too much. my DH is fairly dismissive of it as teen angst, but after seeing this diary I'm worried. Even more so now she's alone so much. The trouble seems to be dd though, as the friend is talking to dd as I've read messages on her phone, but DD is adament she'll be polite to her but doesn't want to hang out as she can't trust her. There is more to it with this girl as this is the 4th time dd has been ignored by this girl without any obvious reason. I've tried to tell dd that sometimes it's worth putting things behind you as otherwise she's cutting her nose off to spite her face so to speak. She's making the choice to isolate herself and the feels miserable. I just don't understand it. She has a lovely life, we do out best and she doesn't have any problems but she still feels this way.

DD has always has had difficulties with friendships since year 5. She pretty much had no friends in year 6 and then in year 7 made friends with a very troubled girl. They were pretty exclusive despite us telling her to mix and dd was devastated when the girl left. That meant she started again in year 8 in terms of friends. I thought she was doing really well with this group with the exception of this one girl who intermittently cuts dd out of the group by ignoring her. I have told dd to calm down a bit as he's very intense. She seems to want a best friend who will be as loyal as she is and just doesn't seem to understand friendships and cannot understand why this girl betrayed her trust by telling her mum. She says people like her when they first meet her but then they go off her and she doesn't know why. The school is set up in a way that despite having 7 groups in each year, they have most of their lessons with the same group. I asked the school if she could change groups as she finds her class very noisy and I thought maybe she needs to mix, but they said no. I know the last time she was isolated from her group that she tried to join other groups of girls but they wouldn't let her.

Do you think a change of school would help? She is at a girls school which she doesn't like. But she also had similar problems in her mixed primary school. I'm just not sure changing school will make much difference as it doesn't deal with the underlying cause.

Sorry, that is long!

Hi OP, what do you think the underlying cause is? Sounds like she has had tough time, plus teenage hormones etc. Sounds very confusing with different people saying ignore etc. but sounds v unhappy. Changing friendship groups causing anxiety etc. It sounds a lot like social anxiety. Some of those traits are also features of autism. Has that been raised before?

Hi,
Can I just say my heart goes out to you. I'm not a regular mumsnet person but was on here looking for answers to the same problem. In the last week I too have just found out my daughter has been self- harming. She's older than your daughter, in the middle of GCSE's and outwardly seemed to be coping with everything. We talk and I knew there were issues with friends and problems with a boyfriend but probably (because we were talking about them) felt that she was coping ok. Like your daughter she has struggled with friendship groups and we did consider moving schools about 2yrs ago but she changed her mind and wanted to remain where she was. In hindsight I wish we had proceeded in moving her and so personally if I was in your situation, given your daughter's age/stage of schooling I would look for an alternative school.

It's good that you have the appointment with CAHMS but shocking that the school have not offered any counselling or even a 'safe' person she can go to during school time. Have you also looked at some of the information online such as the NSPCC or Young Minds websites? I think there is a lot of horror and shock that comes with discovering that our loved daughters are doing this. Maybe sharing some of the info online will help you DH understand better, from what I've read they self-harm to alleviate pain and anxiety and that the very secretive nature of it means that its far from being a cry for attention.
Let's hope we can get them the help they need, take care. X

Ring CAMHS. There should be a number on the letter. It might be a 9-5 service so call them now. Your dd will be in their system if she's been offered an appointment, so ring, ask to speak to the duty worker, outline your concerns. They will give you advice.

Do you think she may be Autistic? Girls seem to be able to mask this until teenage years. I'm in no way an expert and have no experience but have been reading up on ASD, could it be a consideration ?

But having said that it doesn't change her everyday life. Is there an activity she can join where she can meet other people? Boost her confidence?

At 12 I went to a weekend trampolining club at the local leisure centre. I wasn't good at all, but I enjoyed it. I was very shy really, but I met lots of people from other schools plus some from other classes in my year at school and slowly became friendly. School years are hard.

Thanks all. TBH, I don't know what the underlying cause is. She just says she feels we pay more attention to her younger sisters. To be fair, that's true as she has withdrawn so much from the family over the last 6 months. But we had tried to get her out with us but she insisted on staying in her room. We just thought it was normal teen behaviour. This aspect is much better since we removed social media from her and shes with us more now which has helped.

She thinks she is depressed and says she has all the symptoms. I don't know if that's true either as when she listed the symptoms they could just as easily be put down to hormones.

I have considered ASD and she even mentioned it herself. She said she doesn't want to be tested at the moment. She has always been very sensitive to noise and I would say she does have some obsessive behaviour. But she's ridiculously empathetic to the point of being too much, and doesn't flinch if plans change so I don't think it's ASD but I'm no expert. I always thought ASD meant lack of empathy and inability to change plans.

I'll give CAMHS a call this week. I have heard the waiting time for actual counselling could be a other 3 months so I might look into a private counsellor. She keeps saying she wants to talk to someone.

My dd did same/similar and the actual issues came out much later, I spoke unofficially to CAMHS who pointed me in the direction of a parenting class for teens. Is there anything available to you like that, via the school?
In the meantime listen to her without judgement?

The school also provided counselling for my dd

Luella, you are not alone in this.
I went through similar when DD was in year 8, DD started scratching the skin on her upper arm and thigh.
I’ve never been more scared in my life, that fear that makes you want to throw up, it was awful.
My DD is an only child, but she has had a very solid group of friends in primary. Heck, she still hangs out with her friends from nursery. We moved for her secondary (and my marriage breaking up) and it took her a couple of months before my house was filled again with kids, there have been fall outs etc, but generally she is well liked and popular. She is sure of herself and her boundaries, she is definitely not a people pleaser. But she wanted to fit in, so when the others felt misunderstood and upset, she joined the ‘bandwagon’ and starting self harming.
I notified the school who put her ‘on watch’. She had the school nurse checking on her and the school brought in counsellors, my DD had weekly sessions at school for a while. Her PE teacher was brilliant, pushed her in games and didn’t buy her ‘I’m cold, that’s why I am wearing leggings’, she kept a very close look on her. She called and asked if it’s ok to push her to do more exercise, that in turn made my DD feel ‘awful’ at the time, but she felt brilliant at the end of every session.
In short, the school was fantastic.
As for me, I was the source of her unhappiness. I work too much (I am home 25 minutes after her, so no, I didn’t just neglect her), I make her things she doesn’t want to (like eat properly, go for walks, help with the chores, tidy her room, not have her iphone/ipad in her room at night. I was/am an awful mother 🙄). Because, you see, daddy doesn’t make her do any of that when she goes to his.
I read tonnes of books on teenage self harm, mental health, psychology etc.
I took her away, just the two of us. We had ‘date nights’ when I would pick her up from school and go into town for icecream, movie nights. We walked for miles, we went to the beach frequently. We talked.
We still do.
I figured all I can do is be her mum. The rest she’ll have to figure out for herself.
She hasn’t done that since, but I am still keeping a close eye on her.

I’m no expert, but I hope it helps knowing you’re not on your own and you can talk to us.

I was reading about empathy, there are two types, effective empathy and cognitive empathy. Effective empathy (more instinctual) can be very strong in people with autism, cognitive (taking another's perspective, less so). Lots of hope she will come through this stronger. [Flowers]

Thanks all. I might see if anyone on the SEN board cna advise on ASD. At the moment though, it would just be a label and wouldn't help us deal with her actual problems which seems to be interacting with others, poor self esteem and feeling so low.

Maybe some 1-2-1 time with you would help. Tricky if you have younger ones, but a mutual hobby!
? A game of badminton every Saturday morning for an hour or a walk and coffee ?

Thanks but we have plenty of one to one time but maybe it should be a fixed thing in the calendar as it tends to be when we can grab it. I've found a counsellor which I think will help.

My dd was self harming last year. Yr 7. Referred to CAHMS etc. I wont go into the full story but this year she is so different. No longer self harming. The improvement came in part by a move of teaching group. Parents can be a holes sometimes can’t they?

Thank you. That's so good to hear. Unfortunately the school won't change her group. She does seem a bit happier this week which is good and she is open to counselling. Yes, other parents can be A holes. I understand why someone may not want my daughter hanging around with theirs, but to tell your child to ignore mine when she's so emotionally fragile is a shitty thing to do. As is my mother telling me she thought my dd 'gets too much'. Oh right, of course. My daughter self harms so it must be because she does two hobbies a week and I bought her a new coat last week. .

And then people suggesting 1-2-1 time as though I have never done that, or hought of it. Jeez. There for the sake of God go I and all that. Believe me, if this can happen to us, it can happen to anyone. There is absolutely nothing remarkable or traumatic in our lives. She gets time, attention, love, we help with homework, we read to her when she was young, we take her out, we let her have friends over, we control what she sees on TV and via the Internet, we talk, we listen, we cook her nice food, we spend ages choosing the right school, she has hobbies, not too much or too little freedom. So on and so on. And yet she still feels so low she what's to hurt herself. Wtf.

Your DD reminds me of me at her age, very aspergers sounding. Could be wrong but I would definitely bring it up with CAMHS as it took them nearly 6 years for them to diagnose me and I really feel if it was made sooner it would of 100% improved my quality of life.
Hugs to you OP, I remember my own DMs desperation in your position and wouldn't wish it on anyone.

When I self harmed it wasn't always because of outside influences, sometimes it was just to remember I'm alive and human. Sometimes it was because I had pain inside I couldn't express in another way, cutting was a release. Then other times out of frustration, it became an addiction because as sick as it sounds to someone who has never self harmed it gave a sense of relief like no other. Even now, it's been 7 years since I've cut but in times of desperation I still remember the release it gave me. Alot of people think self harm is a one way street but it is so much more complex.
If it's the pain your DD enjoys, get her some elastic bands to put around her wrist and when she feels desperate pull and let them snap. Or ice cubes under her armpit. This was advice from CAMHS many years ago so may of changed now but it did help.

My first thought was autistic spectrum but not necessarily.
Would I move her schools? . absolutely I would.

Sitting all alone at break time in a high school is the most awful thing. Feeling the stares of everyone on you, as they all sit with their friends and you stick out like a sore thumb. Don’t force that any longer. Get her out of there.
It’s very difficult at secondary school to make new friendships when the groups are kind of “set” after a while.

At a new school she needs to make new friends because she is the new kid. Not because everyone left her. And that matters at 13.

Make sure she keeps talking to you. Make sure she always has an outlet. The school sounds shit.

You're right. The school does sound shit. Amazingly it sent a letter telling us all about an award its just won for its mental health service.

No they are failing her. Does she want to move school?

Yes she does. But only to a posh private school she likes the look of as it has tiny classes. We would do it but it would stretch us and there s part of me that thinks you take your problems with you, so will it help. She's been hanging about with whoever is around this week. Whatever that means. But at least she's not alone.

Thank you MissPollyHadADolly19. Its so helpful to hear from someone who's lived through it. I really appreciate your input.

Can I ask anyone who has autism or knows about it, is lack of empathy always a marker of it? Dd has so much empathy I think it's sometimes to her detriment. I've always thought that wouldn't be the case if she had autism. Her ability to tune in to people's feelings has always been very high and even from a very young age she knew how to sort the wheat from the chaff so to speak.

I wouldn't necessarily think a posh private school would do her favours, particularly if you are looking at autism.
You might want a school that listens to your concerns and will offer counselling to her and make the changes you need.

Good point. I need to find a school with rely good pastoral care.

I meant 'really'