16 year old making poor career choices

[Tulipsdaffodil]

I’m a single mum to 16 year old DD. She is very bright and likely to get 8 and 9s in her GCSEs this summer. Her strengths are her sciences, maths and English. Her tutors all suggest sixth form doing A levels in these subjects to give her a wide career choice. She is unsure of what she wants to do as a career.

Instead she is determined to go to college and do A levels in subjects that leave her with no career options other than possibly the police. She is copying her best friend and her choices rather than making her own. She seems unwilling to think beyond college as to how to earn a decent living with a good job. The college will be an hours commute each way for her which will limit the time she would have available to get a job alongside studying, maybe in a pub waitressing.

I can see her making career choices that will not work for her long term, ending up with A levels in subjects that are no use to her. She is a very intelligent, caring and articulate girl who could have lots of options open to her if she picked her next steps carefully but she won’t listen to me or her tutors.

Any advice on how to get through to her over the next six months?

BTW for what it's worth, subjects don't always go towards specific careers. My police officer friend studied geography, english etc at A level and done his degree in geography but his intention was always to be in the police

Worth more not worry more sorry

Also nothing is set in stone. I knew people who changed their A level choices last minute in September

There's no harm in discussing different options but I would say don't worry.

Many if not most kids these days will change their study and career choices many times throughout their lives.

I know for myself, I always did the "sensible" subjects that would lead straight to a sensible job. Many of my peers did completely random things that seemed to lead no where. Today, I'm in that same job which is boring and unfulfilling. Those peers mostly have brilliant careers, some changed courses, some went back to study again, some fell in to jobs, some got started in jobs then moved sideways and upwards to jobs they love. And they are all paid more than me.

My dd is a year older than yours and we went through something similar a year ago. She'd fallen out with some friends and was determined to leave her private boarding school and go to the (very good) local college.

It would have been a bad move for various reasons - logistically and academically - so we put our foot down and said no, she was not going and that was that. There were a few tears but nothing major. Less than six months later she acknowledged that it was the right decision and a year on is totally happy where she is and wouldn't change it for the world.

It's horses for courses, obviously.....

Dropping one in favour of English or history would widen options eg civil service

Unless you're going for a role require specialist knowledge, such as the GSS, the CS don't care what A Levels subjects you studied.

Most people's jobs don't require specific degrees. I worked in the marketing department of a company and the degrees ranged from Drama to Physics. Many careers have alternate ways to qualify if you change your mind later - for example if you want to become a lawyer you can do a non-Law degree then do a conversion course later.

Personally I'd get her to apply to more than one college and crossing my fingers that the friendship fizzled out before Results Day. Picking subjects that you enjoy are one thing but picking them to match a friend is not the best reason to do so. If the college has 2 classes for each subject and they are separated, would she continue with those subjects? As long as she's picked A-levels
(Or other Level 3 courses) then you might have to bite your tongue. My ds has done a level 3 BTEC course which is leading to him hopefully attending uni this autumn. I'm not used to BTECs but I've been impressed. He's had to work solidly throughout because of the high coursework percentage rather than his usual study-at-the-last-minute pattern at GCSE.

If probably try to persuade her to change one of them for a more recognised core subject as some universities may feel that they’re not such a strong mix of subjects compared to other applicants but broadly they’re really fine

If she is interested in psychology, I'd consider switching one of the others to Biology or Chemistry. A BSc in psychology has more options than a BA down the line, it just involves taking a couple of science-y courses at university. I had friends frantically trying to take extra courses in other years to get the BSc instead of the BA as their postgrad plans depended on it.

Well I have a criminology degree and have never worked in the police. Or anything related to criminology. I will admit it's not the best degree subject by a country mile as it's seen as a bit of a soft option (I know you're discussing a levels but guess the principle is the same).

Those subjects won't be seen as academically rigourous as more traditional/facilitating subjects. But if she's interested in sociology, criminology or psychology as degrees it would be ok. But then you come to the argument that is a degree in any of those subjects worth it?

Yes, you could apply for graduate schemes in plenty of companies with any degree but if companies are choosing between someone with a history degree or a criminology degree they're probably going to choose the history graduate.

I went back to uni in my late 20s and did a more sensible degree!

I’m going to go against the grain here and share your concern. None of her choices are facilitating subjects and she is greatly restricting here future career paths at a very young age. Great that it worked out for others, but unless that’s her lifelong passion, hardly to be recommended. She needs to do at least 1 if not 2 facilitating subjects. Surely that’s possible at her college?

I think you are right to be concerned but agree you need to tread gently on this one. My impression is that the subjects that are offered de novo at A level are often more suitable for those who are academically weaker (not always and I don't know which the exceptions would be). She runs the risk of being bored if she doesn't have a subject that challenges and motivates her to explore topics in greater detail.

As the mother of a 16 yr old who won't be doing sciences but doesn't really know what she wants to do long-term, I understand your worries; but I don't think you can push them into subjects that don't interest them when they already know something about them.

Why not try getting her to talk to you in more detail about the subjects she is wanting to do; get the syllabus information and try to discuss together what she will be learning in them. That might make it easier to open discussion of what other plausible subject include as well, just "out of interest". An ideal scenario might be if such conversations lead to opportunities to talk about what she enjoys doing, what she might like in either a university course or a career.

Does she believe in herself, academically?

Criminology doesn’t have anything to do with police work does it?

I did A level psychology and am a lawyer now. Did my undergraduate at Durham (non law) and I didn’t find it a problem though I did have other “facilitating” subjects.

I would check the syllabus though as when I did psychology AGES ago there was a fair bit of criminology in it, so definitely a bit of potential for duplication there.

She would have more options if she chose at least 2 traditional subjects, and only one more modern subject eg criminology, sociology. Unless she is certain she won't want to study a science subject at uni, she should choose one science or maths.

For better or worse, higher ranking universities have a preference for traditional subjects, they are regarded as more academically rigorous. It keeps her university options more open.

Also some university courses will require a science or numerate subject. For example if she is interested in psychology, a BSc psychology at a top uni will often require a science. BSc Psychology will open more doors than BA psychology if she is interested in a clinical psychology career for example.

I would order some uni brochures for good unis and look at their requirements for subjects that interest her.

I agree that she should study subjects that interest her, but her current choices will rule out several future uni options, and that would be a shame as she doesn't know what she wants to do yet.

If the college offers IB that could be a good option for a large number of broad subjects.

What would she do if her friend suddenly dropped out?

Perhaps help her look at it more objectively ie the commute, the friendship (putting all her eggs in one basket there). Also, how easy would it be to switch courses/find something closer to home if it doesn’t work out. What are other friends doing?

Keep all options open and keep looking at alternatives is my advice. Also start looking at uni courses and maybe an open day or two (it’s helped my 17 yo no end).

My 16 yo is making his decision based on where the majority of his friends will be, although there might be an opportunity for him to do something else. I’m doing everything I can to give him all the choices, all the information, without telling him what I think he should do.

And still every chance we will be told ‘I told you so’ or ‘why did you let me do that?’ whichever way it goes. 🙄

www.russellgroup.ac.uk/media/5272/informedchoices-print.pdf

This is the latest advice from the Russell Group universities about subject choice if you want to go to that group of universities. Worth your daughter reading this.

Is there a chance to talk through future options at her current school or at the college with someone? This was recently offered to my son by our local college and, while he hasn't had the visit yet, I think maybe hearing his options and getting a realistic idea from someone other than me and his father will help him.

Lots to think about, thank you all so much. Maybe switching the sociology for a science subject and adding in English as a 4th A level alongside Criminology and Psychology would give her lots more scope.

At the end of the day, it is her choice and she has to be fully on board with whatever she chooses to do. I’ll help her find information on careers and let her decide.

Why a science subject OP? I know that’s what your daughters best at but her other options don’t suggest that she is particularly interested in it. What about History? Similar to her other choices but considered more academic? Although generally I think you need to take a step back.

I do get the feeling you may be flogging a dead horse on the science front. I’m not sure why in all honestly but it feels like something that is much more important to you than her. My science a level was definitely the hardest ( I know that’s not true for everyone)

Would a more traditional arts/humanities subject like English lit or history be a compromise. Is there much human geography in the Geography a level now? That would have elements of sociology in.

@LetsSplashMummy

You can get on a Psychology BSc without a science a level
Most ask for GCSE, that's it, and "relevant" subjects but that includes psychology, history etc.

I have a 16 yr old DD but in Year 12. I can’t make her to anything and she won’t listen to my advice, however it’s phrased. Luckily she is also academic and focused, and chose her A level subjects on the basis of being the best for a degree. She did change her mind quite a lot though on what degree!
I would let your dd apply to that sixth form on the proviso she also applies to stay at school. No decisions need be made until results day and there is a lot of movement around at the beg of year 12 too both in subjects and sixth forms.

Have you researched the types of degrees the police might be interested in? Computer science and data analytics probably come high on that list? OR as others have suggested , physiology goes very well with chemistry and biology

Has she signed up as a police cadet to get Of course she might not have t8me to travel if she is volunteering as well so she might not want to do that, but it could give her a head start ( or a reality check)

I guess I am suggesting you basically support her career choice, but ask that she makes effort to keep some flexibility in case she changes her mind, or she gets injured and fails on the physical side

As O4FS mentioned, I think the ‘following your friends around’ is actually the only problem here.

It’s no good trying to influence a young person of that age over the specific subjects to choose... just making sure they are informed over what they can and can’t lead onto .

But I would be really concerned about my child if I felt she was choosing a subject to follow a friendship.

I have seen people do this with university courses and they invariably dropped out sooner or later. I have seen this with choice o secondary school also and seen families regret it.

I think it is never a good rationale for doing anythin, so I would be quizzing her strongly on her motives and her plans and her decision making process.

Has she followed her friends before, in other decisions like gcse options or extra curricular? If so how did it work out.

I’d be worried too. Those aren’t facilitating subjects. You don’t need an A level in psychology to study psychology but maths or a science is preferred.