DH vs DD

[onepickleonefurryoneannoyance]

Please can someone offer me either advice or reassurance that this is completely normal?

My DH and I have been together for 26 years, married for most of them. Our DD will be 13 at the end of this year. DD is our only child.

Our problem is that we don't seem to be able to spend any time together as the three of us without there being some sort of disagreement or dispute. My DD has just gone through puberty so is, understandably, full of hormones and PMT etc etc. My DH does not seem to have a filter on what he says and comes out with little statements, criticisms or observations that immediately make me cringe and offend an easily offended DD.

When all hell inevitably breaks loose, almost always over dinner, I must admit to invariably sympathising with DD. This puts DH's back up as he says I always take her side. But I swear he opens his mouth simply to piss someone off. He will say 20 words when really, only 2 are needed. It just means that the surplus 18 words are the ones that cause offence.

DH has the habit of trying to make small talk with people when it isn't really necessary. He struggles with remembering things, so his small talk often ends in embarrassment when he gets facts wrong. His "small talk" errors have caused a few problems in the past. He also struggles with hearing, so seems rude when he is constantly saying "what????

DH and DD have always been close and love each other dearly. This is breaking my heart. I have tried to explain to him that DD is going through a massive change and is not in control of her emotions as she has not yet got the maturity. DH is the adult and he ends up sulking and storming off and his strops are worse than a child's. I try and remind him that he is the grown-up here.

I am seriously suggesting that DH moves out for the next 5 years and comes back when DD is 18 as I simply cannot cope with being the peacemaker in their spats for the foreseeable future

Is this normal? What can I do?

Just sending a hand hold as I'm in a similar situation. DH is constantly berating DD (also 13) as he feels she'll never learn if he doesn't tell her where she's going wrong! It's unbearable and causes so many fights. I'm a great believer in positive reinforcement with teenagers ... it's amazing how one good comment to DD can change the tone of a conversation- maybe he can give it a go..,,

I don't know if it's normal, but it seems distressingly common. ex-H and I split up when dd was 14 (for unrelated reasons!) and truthfully the 100% best thing about it has been not having to deal with the two of them interacting.

Like you I thought (and still think) that half the time if not more ex was the one being U. He also operates massive double standards - just as one example he's persistently late for things (including stuff like giving dd lifts to activities where he has offered them - she's now as an older teen fortunately learnt to get the bus instead whenever possible!) yet expects her to drop everything and come the moment he says.

These days (at my house!) dd is the easiest teen in the world, she's co-operative, helpful, does chores when asked, and generally a pleasure to spend time with. Strangely, ex-H doesn't have the same experience...

My DD is a couple of years younger but yes, it does sound distressing familiar.

Has DH had a hearing test? If not, I think that’s the first step.

I can completely relate to this. MY DD & ex-H did not get on at all mainly because he critised her at every opportunity and wanted to control her, had double standards etc. It got so bad that when we split when she was 14 she chose not to see him. She is now 18 & they don't have a relationship.

I found a book that helped me understand what was going on with her (he was just a tw*t). It's called Get out of my life: but first take me and Alex into Town. It's very insightful and maybe your DH could read it to understand the impact he is having on her.

Thanks for your responses, ladies. It is interesting to see that many of you refer to a now ex-h . This is absolutely not want I want for the three of us (although I could quite happily strangle him on a daily basis).

Case in point - this morning, DD shows us her new school photograph. It is not the best, I admit, but what posed school photo is? DH immediately says "OMG, you look like a huge lion"!!!

Great........

DH has regular medicals at work that include a hearing check. His hearing, whilst on the low side of normal, is classed as normal and doesn't need any aids of sorts.

I like the idea of the book PooBag74 and I shall read it. I have no hope of getting DH to read it though as he has never read a book in his life, apart from story-time when our DD was little.

I seriously despair..........

But why have you picked up on him saying what? Why is that rude? He can't help it if he can't hear. Fair enough about everything else but that one seems very odd to say

This could be the story with my DD and my ex. He isn't my ex because of that, but I guess it didn't help.

Arguments always erupted at mealtimes, and they'd end up having a huge fight, but with him dominating the scene. I used to work nights then, and I'd often go to work in tears. My workmate said something which did make a difference - she said maybe they both need to be left alone to deal with this, instead of you always trying to keep the peace.

After she said that, I decided to do what she'd suggested. As soon as any fights started, I said " Nothing to do with me - I'm out of here" or something similar. I didn't side with either of them, show any favoritism, or take part in the argument. I just walked away and kept busy somewhere else. Funnily enough, by removing myself from the scene, the fights subsided completely. I guess that my presence had been making things worse. Just a thought, OP.

I could have written the OP.
My only issue regarding a strategy of butting out of their arguments is the vulnerability of the child.
My DP thinks I take her side but I don’t do that as a default. If I feel his behaviour to her has descended to bullying or aggression, I can’t have her see me appearing to condone what he does.
Where possible, I willleave them to it. If he treats her fairly when she misbehaves, we can be a united front as parents, but if he goes beyond that I make sure she knows that it’s not ok for adults to be unkind or unfair.

Davespecifico that is my intention when I "side" with him. If I agree with DH's remarks, then I make sure I let him know. But more often than not, the remarks are unnecessary and often verging on the cruel. Then i do call him out on it. And then he falls out with me for "siding" with DD.

When we are 1-1 with our DD, or when it just DH and I, then all is fine. But when we become a 3, it just doesn't seem to work.

It is a bloody awful situation and I can't see a resolution. I just wish my DH could see how demoralising and hurtful his remarks are to DD.

When DD's go through puberty/become teenagers, DDads lose their little hero worshiping girls. A lot of men really struggle with the fact that the little girl who was climbing all over daddy last week, now suddenly think he is old and boring and knows nothing.

They also struggle with the fact that their little girls are becoming young women and want to keep them dependent babies forever. Of course the last thing a teenager wants is to need her old parents.

It is nature trying to make your DD grow up and pull away from her parents and go out in the wild world and stand on her own two feet. Being a teenager and full of hormones she is probably quite sensitive and stressed.

DH needs to cut her some slack for a few years while and try to be sympathetic and understanding.

Don't let DD be rude or horrible to DH as some teenagers get and also tell DH to be gentle with her and try to not say things which will make her sensitive.

It is hard because sometimes the things which were endearments, ie. little smelly bum, which made the 9 year old laugh are now suddenly, "Oh my god mum, dad says I'm smelly" wah wah wah. Cue hysterics from teenager and DDad completely bemused as to what he has done.

I think this is a thing that fathers struggle with - mine certainly found his DDs very difficult to deal with and handled it badly most of the time and yes, I did feel I was 'taking their side' a lot of the time - because H was being so manifestly unreasonable!

We ended up separating for completely unrelated reasons - but if those had not been present I'd have had to have a lot more serious words with him about respecting the fact that they were not his little girls any more. They were not rude, they just had their own ideas and opinions, and were entitled to express them within the rules of polite conversation.

Your DH is going to have to learn that too. It's a steep learning curve, I'm afraid.

Similar here. Not just with exH but most of family. DD presence only highlighted their behaviour/attitudes. It's thanks to her I question their motives and dont internalise everything.

Take your dh out one evening, just the two of you, and spell it out. If he doesn't take it on board email him details of flats to rent.

Gosh OP I thought I had written this post and forgotten about it. Only DD with DH who winds her up and doesn't think about what he is saying to her.

I had to talk to them separately, remind DH that he is the adult and not to be rude to her just as we won't accept rudeness from her. If she is rude, we have a united front, if he says something inappropriate to her, I expect him to apologise.

I had to remind him that she a basically a good girl and they needed to find a way to reconnect with the squabbling - I use to dread meals as one or the other would upset each each other and then both would turn on me. From a close relationship, they were becoming estranged. Neither wanted that.

So now on the weekend, they will now go and play tennis and that time together helps seems to help (so does sneaking to the shop to buy chocolate). They now (and so do I) apologise when we've got it wrong and feelings are hurt. We try and see the other's viewpoint (once we've calmed down!) but more importantly we start each day fresh and remind each other that we love each other and we try and respect each other.

I also spoke to DD and gave her strategies to deal with her dad when he gets it wrong and 7 times out of 10 that helps.

Teen years are fun ................

Handhold because with a 14 year old and a 12 year old it feels like Celebrity Deathmatch here quite frequently...

This sounds exactly like my relationship with my dad between age 14-17, he was overprotective and I found it intensely irritating. My poor mum was always stuck in the middle of our (daily) blowups.
I hope you can take comfort from the fact that I now have a brilliant relationship with my dad in my late 20s, he eventually learned to give me some more space and I learned to breathe and control my temper!

The only thing is, in your example, that is the sort of comment that I think your dd ought to be able to cope with.
(Yes, I have teenagers, and yes, 2 of them are dds).

He didn't say "Oh, your hair looks greasy in that photo" or "That big spot on your face spoils the photo" or "You look like you've got a double chin" or anything that is remotely personal or unsettling for a young teenager (or probably any of us that are sensitive about our looks) to cope with. He said something faintly ridiculous. Something that in no way is pointing out some alleged "flaw" in what she looks like.

I know she is sensitive, and I know she is on a learning curve, but you will help her much more in life by helping her learn to laugh as daft nonsense than take it as some kind of personal attack. Trying to prevent he from hearing anything that doesn't compliment her looks or skills is really just wrapping her in cotton wool and not giving her the life skills she needs to get through the next 6 teenage years, and then through her twenties and beyond.

I'm not sure I agree with the pp on 'Oh well he didn't say anything really offensive'. I'm not sure why he would feel the need to comment at all?... Dd presumably feels all the normal teenage angst and anyone making frankly unnecessary comments won't help. It's not about wrapping kids in cotton wool, it's about not belittling them to the point they feel crap about themselves whilst they're no doubt riddled with self doubt already. If Dd started 'teasing/highlighting' her dad's less than stellar points or started mocking his low level hearing would he brush it off or get angry/upset? If an adult commented to me 'Omg you look like a huge lion!'. My response would be 'Omg you sound a huge cock!'. But I'm assuming Dd won't have the 'adult' luxury of retaliation and gets to suck it up or strop. Which then leads to other crappy 'oooh sensitive!' comments.

It may be worth reminding DH that teenagers base a lot of their relationships on what they see in others. I had the same thing with my dad at that age but then went on to pick partners who treated me the same and accepted behaviour I shouldn't have because I felt that it was normal behind closed doors and that was how I should be treated by men. My daughter is only 7 weeks old but my step son is 14yrs and dinners with extended family are a nightmare as the MIL loves to wind them both up. I encourage DH to take himself outside for some fresh air which may be easier because he vapes but gives a bit of time away. When he comes back generally everyone makes their point more clearly. I always tell him that he has to model removing himself when it gets heated as he's the adult but it's rubbed off well on my step son who now uses the strategy in arguments with his mum.

I agree with blackcat86 its not so much about the context, it's about the end result. If a young girl gets taught to brush off 'teasing comments' (in the example made referring to big bushy hair), at what point does it stop? I doubt anyone would want their child's tolerance to esculate to accepting comments such as; 'you're a thick fat cunt!'. It's not empowering kids to build a resilience, it's just setting them up to think it's okay for people to take the piss out of them with no consequences. I'm not sure why some adults feel respect is a one way street when it comes to communicating with children/teens.

Agreed. To me it's about treating children and teenagers with the same level of respect that you would treat an adult. That means teasing is only acceptable where it's mutually fun & enjoyable. Which of course can be very often in a playful way, but if it's not being enjoyed then that's the time to stop, apologise and modify behaviour in the future.

In ex-H's case, his parents absolutely don't treat children with respect, and as a result he has a pretty dreadful relationship with them. Sadly I really feel that a lot of that has carried through into the way he treats dd, though he would be absolutely disbelieving of the fact that he is so often acting out the ways his dad spoke to him/his siblings. (We got together very young, so I was around the family when they were pre teens/teens.)

To me respect also means the same rules for everyone, of course applied in an age appropriate way (eg 'everyone needs to go to bed early enough that they are getting enough sleep' - the time will be different!).

So if it's not right for dd to shout at me or speak to me rudely, then it's not right for me to shout at/be rude to her. And of course pragmatically if I can express politely what my issue is then she's far more likely to be co-operative.

Sounds like me and my dad when I was a teenager. He would say I was being a moody teenager and too sensitive, but the comments he made were things like "why do you bother getting your hair cut when you are so fat". I'm sorry but that is just outright offensive to anybody. Sounds like your DH is the same. It's not like he thinks he is being helpful, he is just having fun being rude, to someone who has no power to respond. Then covering up by saying laughing at her, saying how "sensitive" she is.

I bet he'd never "accidentally" make a rude comment to his boss, or to you. As that would have consequences. So these comments aren't accidents.

My dad never really changed. A few weeks ago he said apropos of nothing, "you aren't a very good driver, are you". Literally out of nowhere. I just packed up and left. I don't care now, as I see him as a sad old pathetic dickhead tbh. Maybe ask your DH if he wants to be seen that way by your DD as an adult.

My ex did that to me. And by fuck I wasn’t going to let him do it to DD. He never did it to DS only DD.

I’d be telling him to STFU and if he continued I’d show him the door tbh.

It’s total lack of respect for his DD.

And if his hearing is normal then the what is an affectation. Get hisnhearing tested properly if he needs hearing aids get him to wear them.

And I bet he remembers the stuff that matters to him. It’s sending s pretty strong message that she doesn’t matter when he can’t even remember stuff.

I’m getting het up just reading this it’s reminding me so much of what it used to be like.