Stuck - too young to move out? Too old to ground

[Mumchanges]

Dd 17 who I've posted about before.

Things were slightly better for a few months but honestly I think that's because I haven't been challenging her.

I'm walking on eggshells in my own home and I'm sick of it.

Latest is she's not managing her money properly and has been borrowing off me. Somehow she confused me into writing off £100 of debt. I should have had it clear in my head or not agreed to anything till I checked.

Now she's told me she's skint (just got paid!!) but her response to my suggestions of solutions/offer of help (not in giving her money I can't afford that) by way of discussing and advising was to lose temper with me.

I'm sick to back teeth of having to try and word everything I say in such a way it can't possibly be taken as a criticism. I'm not allowed to talk to her at all for at least an hour after she gets in from work. I ask her to do small favours - just the kind of thing you do for each other in a household so things run smoothly - and you'd think I'd asked for the moon on a stick!

There can easily be 2, 3 days where we don't talk at all! Not because we've had a row but just because she'll not bother even to say hello, goes straight to her room, change, straight out with friends, doesn't get back till late, straight to room again, gets her stuff ready for next day and goes to bed.

She cocks up she expects me to sort it. Losing things (keys, bank card, important paperwork) and she doesn't ask nicely but instead as if it was my cock up!! Loses stuff of mine too - it's got to where certain household items I'm having to hide in my room so she doesn't use & lose them and I'll still have eg nail clippers or pens, hell even crockery!

She works shifts but if it's an early start she can't get her arse up herself so I've taken to setting alarms so I can wake her up - cos if she sleeps in THAT is somehow my fault too!

No appreciation, no common courtesies even.

Last time I posted I was seriously considering asking her to move out. But with how she's been with her money I'm genuinely worried she'd get sacked and end up homeless.

I'm really struggling to know what to do.

I try really hard to keep my own temper too - but when I'm getting a lengthy tirade off her of how it's all my fault I don't always manage it and end up telling her to get her act together or get out. Which does nothing to improve things. My tongues nearly in half with being bitten so often!

I've spent last couple days often in tears due to her attitude.

It's just the 2 of us, dad not on scene for many years, no other support.

When pushed she'll claim stress BUT never does anything about it. This has been an issue for over 2 years and I've made appointments she's refused to go to, she won't even try anonymous helplines or forums. Won't even consider it just point blank refuses to even try them.

I just feel like I'm losing her. We used to be so close. Now I feel like we're strangers. No idea what to do.

Sit her down and tell her the things you like about her and how you want to improve the relationship but will both need to work at it. Suggest you start treating her like an adult and let her be completely responsible for waking herself and paying her way. Then stop enabling her poor behaviour. Don’t remedy lost cards or keys but support her to remedy issues herself. This might mean giving her step by step pointers

Tell her you’ve presently got an adult-child relationship but need to move on to an adult-adult relationship.

Be respectful and kind but mostly help her develop her living skills

Hugs, that sounds difficult. At 17 she is old enough to be left to deal with consequences for her actions. Don't lend her money, or wake her for work. If she shouts at you give her a warning, tell her if she speaks to you like that again she will have to move out. When she does tell again, give her a months notice, give it to her in writing. Hopefully that is enough for her to realise she has to stop being awful.
Making her move out will probably be fantastic for her, she will be forced to take responsibility for herself and grow up.

Tried that - several times.

When it comes to the 'step by step pointers' bit its apparently patronising and condescending - but she's not listening even if she's actually asked for help/advice.

Does she feel you hold her in a positive light? Do you do any activities together?

She says she doesn't think I do. Honestly I used to praise her a lot but it's getting bloody hard to do when she keeps being so aggressive and when I'm barely allowed to say a word to her!

No activities together. She is either at work or out with friends or unapproachable.

It's got so I daren't risk running into her in the hall some evenings.

Can you text and ask her if you can arrange a weekly film night or something? Even if you don’t talk deeply, just an opportunity to bond around something nice.

You can show that you hold someone in positive regard without direct praise. Tone of voice, touching her shoulder, warm eye contact, in ear shot talking positively about her to other people.

All these answers are very pandering, babying, rewarding.

She said treating you appallingly and obviously can't be allowed to carry on.

I'd tell her exactly how she was making you feel, ask her how she'd feel if you need and tell her things must change or else she has to move out. And mean it.

I'd be inclined to step back. At 17 she should be taking responsibility for her basic stuff, being polite, getting to work on time.

Don't lend her any more money.
Don't get her up for work.

You should not be on eggshells in your own home. If you posted this but swapped DD for DP, everyone would be saying LTB.

You've developed a new love of vacuuming the hallway outside her bedroom at 6 o clock in the morning haven't you OP? You also enjoy sleeping next to the unplugged internet box, makes you feel safe. Talking about safety, that door gets locked as soon as you walk in the evenings and you'll be damned if you can remember where you put the spare keys - oh well!

Just stop it if she is so rude she refuses to be civil then bugger her let her sleep in for work let her work her money out she clearly just expects you to wipe her backside for her just stop doing it and personally I would be telling her tobe looking for somewhere to live. Has she always behaved like a brat or is it recent

It’s very possible to have good firm boundaries while holding a child in positive regard and building bonds.

I have a just-18yo who can be similar at times, although ironically is better after work than in mornings. We sometimes walk on eggshells around her, though she is better with her dad, which can help (though I appreciate that doesn't help you). We are very alike and when we are both hormonal (I am in menopause!), its difficult not to argue, but DH is calmer. I also find that it can help to text her, esp an idea you may want her to consider. Gives her time to consider it before discussing it.

I have really had to step back and keep quiet more in last few months, as she headed for and turned 18. Its difficult but she does seem to be improving gradually, although she still says one thing one day, the opposite a day or two later. Eg I asked if she would like to see Mamma Mia, "No way, not going to see that" - a week later, walks in from work - "shall we go and see Mamma Mia together sometime". Eh?!

She was doing some travel research last week (starting a gap year as not sure on next step) and told me how much she appreciated the effort I put into organising a family trip in US last year. On Sunday she called me a control freak "who has to book every holiday" (thats because we would never have one if I left it to DH to book, we all get a say in where and what we do on hols).

I seemingly cant win and yes, like you Op, a lot of things are my fault, but a reducing number with time.

Money-wise, she will fitter what she earns if we let her, she likes food and even when taking food from home to work (a supermarket) she can easily buy more or go to McDs. (We have said we wont charge board during gap year so cover all general shopping, but not if she buys unnecessary extras).

It helped that she passed driving test and got a car. We part funded it but agreed to her using some of her savings as long as she replaced them from earnings, she has plenty of scope for overtime. So she moves a chunk of wages into her savings account on payday, leaving enough to get petrol, have a social life etc but not fritter it. We have pointed out that she can move some back if she wants to buy a specific item or clothes, but this way she sees that if she fritters it away, she won't be able to buy petrol and therefore won't be able to run her beloved car. Plus she can see the fruits of her labour, in contributing some earnings to having a nice car.

So maybe see if she will work with you to save some money every month for something specific - it gets them to budget what they may need left to spend and think about what they are spending it on.

I've tried so many suggestions on the money side of things I get shot down as its 'nothing to do with you' - except when she's frittered it all and is borrowing off me!!

Texting - I got told off for that last night too.

I feel beaten. Whatever I do is wrong.

I feel beaten. Whatever I do is wrong
So do nothing.
I know that sounds heartless as you seem such a caring mum, but maybe she needs to know how the world works without the safety net of your mum's piggy bank and emotional punching bag.

I agree, I think you could do with disengaging from the drama. It’s her responsibility to set her alarm & get up for work, not yours. I had moved out by her age.

You didn't do anything wrong you need to take a few deep breaths stop feeling defeated start livi g your own life stop bailing her out she is taking the piss sorry to be so crude but she is. What do you think will happen if you stop getting her up or giving her money ?

As it happens I was so exhausted I didn't wake to the alarm this morning (I've been staying awake all night if she has an early start in order to wake her - I don't sleep well at night anyway as I have mh issues of my own) result was she was an hour late leaving for work (noisy front door alerted me).

Worry is if she keeps being late she'll lose her job. I cannot afford to support her if this happens, I just can't.

If I stop giving her money I think she'd borrow from friends and piss them off which would put her in a foul mood and I'd get the brunt.

I don't understand how she's getting so skint as she has way more in disposable income than I ever spent on her! It is just being frittered to be honest and that is really annoying me it's so wasteful!

I still made her a packed lunch last night but really just as I didn't need her kicking off at me this morning!

Her anger certainly doesn't help my anxiety. My cpn has also said to do less for her but I find that really really hard. Partly as I feel guilty and partly as I'd get grief for it.

Yes I also left home not much older than she is now. Lived as a lodger in a shared house, did what would now be a nmw job. My rent was half my wage and didn't include food, cleaning products etc so I basically had (late 80's) £50 each week for EVERYTHING apart from rent. Luckily work was walking distance (man was I skinny then ) plus the job was on my feet all day too.

Dds job is seated but emotionally very demanding and she is struggling with that but I feel she is taking it out on me.

It's an excellent company to work for with lots of opportunity for advancement including into an area she's very interested in but that's not what she's doing right now.

We've talked about paying your dues and she sorta understands that but it gets her down if it's been a very difficult day.

I'm 17 and rent a house with my partner and 10 week old ds. My mum and I have a very strong and close relationship - I believe this was helped by her taking a step back and focusing on building an adult relationship with me as opposed to a adult - child relationship.

It sounds like you do a lot for your daughter, which is lovely, but at 17 she should be taking responsibility for herself. She is almost an adult. Could you try taking a step back but in a way that encourages a more grown-up relationship with her? Suggest fun things you could do together (movie night, shopping trip etc) but give her space to make her own decisions with work and money. Feels funny to comment when I'm the same age as your dd, but I hope some younger perspective on this helps.

Everyone including your CPN is telling you the same thing. Take a step back and let her make her own mistakes, your aren't actually doing her any favours in the long term and she may feel stifled by you even though you are doing everything you can to help her.

No. I'm happy to hear from people the same age as dd - especially as she's trying to tell me how her friends mums do everything for them, don't charge them any keep etc - I know for a fact with one of them it's not true as I know the mum and we both have same parenting style if anything she's stricter than me.

If you asked dd she'd say I do bugger all for her! Because I expect her to pull her weight housework wise. She seems oblivious to what else is done.

A particular bone of contention is the food shop. She thinks it takes no time/effort at all as I get it delivered (our local supermarkets are rubbish where I get it delivered from has more variety etc).

When I ask her if there's anything she particularly wants she sighs and rolls eyes and says 'whatever the usual' BUT then when it's been delivered 'there's no X I needed Y, I'm fed up eating z' which feels like a kick in the teeth to be honest.

I worry about what she eats as she's never had a great appetite and will forget to eat. Plus she'll eat the same thing repeatedly, not big on fruit/veg.

As you can see I'm really struggling with this transition from parenting her as a true child and as an almost adult.

Several of you have said I need to do this but I genuinely have no idea how.

My parents never did this with me or my sibling as we both left home permanently very young and actually even when we went back for holidays etc until we were into our 30's and parents ourselves still treated us like kids! So I've not had an example.

Dd herself seems in some ways to still want to be treated like a kid but in other ways or at other times like an adult and I have no way of knowing - until I get it wrong

I'll be honest with you guys it's also because I've spent the last 17 years mainly being a mum. I've not had a career (I've had jobs but not a career) because as a single mum I was limited. Then I had to stop even having a job because of being ill so my life revolved around dd and being a mum. I have no other identity (crying as u write this) I'm actually dreading her moving out even though in frustration I'm saying to dd to get out.

When she moves out I will easily go days even weeks without interaction with another human being. I don't think she'll make much effort to visit.

Send her to a convent?

if this was your partner it would be classed as domestic abuse. Sorry, I know it isn t the mn way but she is an appalling little shit at the moment. she clearly can be pleasant as she has friends but you appear not to be worth the effort. how disgusting is that?

withdraw all privileges, keep repeating the actions you expect and remember it is her, not you. and tell her that if she loses the job due to her idleness you w ill be selling stuff for food.

Thing is who's to blame for creating an abuser? The parents.

Even the friendships were hanging on by a thread at one point as she was taking out the stress of work on them. Her best mate stuck it out but she did make it clear she wouldn't tolerate it any longer there was a big argument.

She doesn't really have privileges as such. At 17 and working I can hardly ground her as title says and it was the only thing that ever had any effect.

She's not a material person in terms of it bothering her if things were confiscated and to be honest she has the money now to soon replace anything I did confiscate.

God it was so much easier when she was little!