Teen no longer wants to visit father

[PookieDo]

I have 2 DC and I really need some advice. I’m worried about how to approach this, reduce the impact on both my dc who have completely different feelings. I’m scared of it hurting their sibling relationship

I have been apart from their DF for over 10 years. He is a difficult man and has never bonded well with our youngest child. I receive small amount of maintenance. He sees them regularly and even takes them on holiday, but doesn’t do any school things such as homework or come to parents evenings. All the parent Work is down to me.

The eldest is 16 and adores DF and wants to continue a relationship.

The youngest 14 does not wish to continue a relationship with DF.

Dc14 does not know how to tell him, is so unhappy and I have tried many times to help improve their relationship but it isn’t working. I’m concerned that continued contact is not in DC14 best interests for their mental wellbeing. DC14 is often in tears, anxious and unhappy knowing they are going there on the weekend all week.

Because DC16 does not understand how DC14 feels, they have tension between them. DC1 feels that DC2 is unfair on their dad and I try to tell them they are both allowed to feel differently and that’s ok. But not to be mean to each other about it.

DC2 does not want to tell him. They want me to do it. I don’t know what to say because ex will take this very badly. Part of me feels sorry for them both but more so my DC as they are my priority.

There is no court involvement.

Any advice?

My dc are similar. Dc1 is almost 18 and has split his time between me and their dad doing 4 days each for most of the time we have been apart, whereas ds2 nearly 16 hasn't had contact with their dad for almost a year and stopped visiting regularly about 18 months before that.
It was completely his choice and he knows he can see his dad anytime he wants but he doesn't have anything in common with him unlike ds1 and he couldn't cope with his dads behaviour regarding me.
I hope your dc feels better having a break from visiting or shorter visits.

I decided at 14 I didn’t want to see my father. I am still incredibly grateful to my mother (who I otherwise have a dreadful relationship with) that she heard me, believed me and said she would deal with him. I have absolutely no doubt that he was awful to her about it, but she dealt with it, shielded me from the fallout and I stopped seeing him.
It was totally the right thing to do. I am now no contact with both of them for different reasons. But all the issues I saw at 14 have been absolutely been validated in the (many) years since.
Please listen to your child and help them.

I understand that when dealing with an abusive man, there is the instinct to avoid anything that’ll result in the inevitable explosion of anger. You’ve done well to have escaped that, but obviously not entirely. Maybe DC2 has got to the limit of her ability to cope with her bullying father. Someone has to call time on his abuse of her, and if there really isn’t anyone who could intervene on your and her behalf, then it has to be you.

I am puzzled by your DC1’s attitude, though. She adores her father, so I would have thought she’d be happy if DC2 wasn’t there, as she’d get more attention from her father. Or maybe if her father’s anger is directed towards DC2, then DC1 wouldn’t be on the receiving end of it. Or she’s enmeshed in the golden child/scapegoat situation so DC1 wouldn’t be so “golden” if DC2 wasn’t there.

Toxic relationships are difficult enough for adults to navigate through – have a read of the Stately Homes threads for examples. It’s far harder for children/teens to deal with. Can you gather up all the possible resources available to you, to assist in putting a stop to this bullying. Because it does have to stop, and sooner rather than later.

dD1 is enmeshed in a very toxic way. She is a difficult and naughty child and always has been - rude, in trouble at school and poor grades through lack of trying. My frustration about his treatment is the disparity between them both: the child who needs firm handling is not receiving it from him, and he never seems to be pulling her up on her bad behaviour and is focused on this fucking phone of DD2 who I’ve said is mature intelligent and well behaved. It’s infuruating for me and I imagine DD2. dD1 gets all the attention she needs from her father and wants for nothing. I think she likes being part of the team against ‘little miss perfect’ and has taken against me for the fact that DD2 is a good student etc as if this is down to me! So it is DD1 and father against me and DD2. Except me and DD2 are not trying to fight or win anything against anyone!

It might be helpful for you not to think of DD1 as "difficult and naughty" but to think of her as affected by the difficult relationships she has been caught up in. We are a product of our environment, and if she has not felt secure growing up because of trouble with her parents her brain may not have developed the neural pathways it needs to regulate her emotions and behaviour, this is a physiological thing rather than her making a conscious choice to be "naughty". Some people are genetically more susceptible than others, and in addition as the elder she is perhaps likely to have experienced it worse than her sister or felt more responsible (talking from experience here). She may need firm but negotiated boundaries but also to feel loved, understood and secure so that her brain is able to develop, it may be good for her to have other adults from outside the immediate family for her to form bonds with to help this.

It doesn’t sound like it’s in DD2’s best interests to have weekends with her father at present. I would inform your ex that she wishes not to attend and that you won’t make her.

If you can get a referral or afford to pay I would seek professional help for both DCs’ mental health, and continue to seek ways to help them with their respective challenges and improve their relationship.

You say he’s “a difficult man” and some of his behaviours sound abusive towards the DC - both actually, as it’s harmful to the “golden child” too. Guessing he may have been emotionally abusive during your relationship.

If this is the case, seeking to “sit them down together” won’t help. It’d be better to minimise your contact with him, in particular about his relationship with DD2, and focus on helping the DDs.

Be honest in a respectful way about their father and acknowledge the effect of his behaviour on her. Tell her it's unacceptable and her feelings are valid.
Perhaps no contact isn't the way to go, but is there a half way house, such as she can visit him less often or for shorter periods of time.
Your ex needs to step up, a relationship is between two people and yet your daughter seems to be the only one worried about this.
She doesn't have to do anything she doesn't want to, but I'm not sure at her age she would fully understand the impact of go NC with her dad. Can you, her dad, and her, talk about this together?
I say this as someone who was NC with family until early 20s, and have two step dc who don't talk to their father.

Why are so many adamant that it’s in a child’s best interests to see their father?

Not if he’s a twat, it’s not.

I’m just concerned if her wishes are ignored it’s really undermining to her confidence. It took huge courage for her to say what she did and her father maybe needs to see how damaging it can be to ignore people’s feelings. She may suppress her will and surely that could lead to abusive relationships in the future.
Would he spend the weekend with someone who made him unhappy? Why should she.
If he expects you to listen to his suggestions of how to parent then equally he can listen to yours

That sounds so hard for all of you.
I would try going with just letting him know one weekend/visit at a time.

If you asked her, would she maybe want to go just for tea on the odd week night?

You say she shares a room with two others at his, how old are these children, does she get on ok with them?
Will she miss this relationship?

Having come from a 'broken' home (it's early and I can't think how else to word it), I wouldn't make her go. It's harming her. You need to be the one to tell him. She can have other commitments if you want to wean off rather than cold turkey.

There'll be backlash and that will probably include your eldest, but you'll get through it. You need to hear your youngest and do what's right for her.

Stop forcing her to keep spending time with someone that makes her unhappy. At 14 she’s quite old enough to make that decision. You know what he is like yet you won’t speak up for your DD.
Tell her she doesn’t have to see him and then you tell him she’s too busy or whatever reason you like.
She needs to know you are 100% for her, unlike her father.

RatherBeRiding
I would also not insist that she is the one to tell him. 14 is very young for a sensitive child to have to stand up to an abusive and over-bearing parent, but not too young to know that she doesn't want to see him for the time being.

This. Your dd2 needs you to advocate for her. If a pp is right about the golden child and scapegoat dynamic at your ex's house then they'll both need your support. Because it is damaging to both dds. It will affect their future relationships not only with each other but with the people they choose to share their lives with. It also creates confusion. I suggest you read up about it and come up with a plan on how to help both of them to minimize the damage it can cause. Your ex does not sound like someone who can be reasoned with.

I would follow your DC's wishes. My parents divorced when I was young and I decided from a young age that I did not want to see my father, in fact I chose to go to boarding school so I only had to see him twice a month. I am now an adult in my 20's and am very low contact with him, trying to move to completely no contact. My reasons for disliking my father, he wasn't overtly abusive or anything, but has a vile personality and is very controlling. Let your DC choose what to do, they can always re-establish contact when they are older if they would like.

At 14 and 16 the onus is on your father and the kids to sort out there own arrangements for seeing each other (with you confirming they're actually at his if they say they are with him via text or phone). You need to stop getting involved in this, as hard as it sounds. They're all old enough to determine what sort of relationship they want with each other, if their father really wants a relationship with your daughter it's his place to make sure she actually feels like he loves her.

Unless you've got custody rules to abide by, then let the kids decide what they want to do about seeing their father with their father and leave them to it.

So many differing opinions but I am grateful for them all

The 3rd child is a toddler and is their half sibling. DD2 has indifferent feelings towards them

DD1 has received a lot of mental health support as she has had behavioural problems (the naughty I describe) and they all link back to the relationship with her father, attachment issues etc. She did not accept counselling on multiple occasions and doesn’t want to address any deeper issues and I can’t force her, only give her the tools and resources. DD1 and I have a close relationship but it can be very difficult at times when I put boundaries down. Dad does not give DD1 any boundaries and she wants to please him which has caused her so much confusion. I’m under no illusion that I think she’s been the worst affected by this situation and my biggest fear is it affecting her as an adult. She’s very immature emotionally.

DD2 is so level headed she might be more receptive to counselling and talks to me very honestly, she just hates him, a deep deep dislike. DD1 likes to bully DD2 and my instant reaction is to protect the one who is being bullied. I think DD1 has become the bully through what she has seen and also having control.

I was very young when I met ex and was not in a very good place coming to terms with my horrible childhood and parents. I realised he was emotionally abusive when both DC were very small and I left him to protect them, and me. At the same time I did want them all to have a relationship - even a court probably would have made me do it anyway so I have tried to work with him to bring the kids up. I feel guilty I even had children with him anyway

I’m under no illusion that I think she’s been the worst affected by this situation and my biggest fear is it affecting her as an adult. She’s very immature emotionally.

There's a great book called The Body Keeps The Score that explains what happens biologically when people / kids experience trauma. It identifies that things that help are music, drama, team sports/activities, art, yoga, but one of the most practical is just hanging out with people who are good at emotional regulation because you learn from them by just experiencing how they do it - the basis of counselling is the relationship not the "technique". So you might not need to persuade DD to undertake any sort of intervention but perhaps look at activities she can join, and whether you have any calm and chilled family or friends she could develop a positive relationship with.

Thank you - the support we accessed really relies on the child opening up and I am not sure DD1 has much insight into her feelings or behaviours, it’s always someone else’s fault. I’m not saying it’s her fault but she just can’t go deeper than ‘you piss me off’ and slams shut. I think I am emotionally regulated, DD2 is, I have friends and family who are. DD1 used to gravitate towards all the dramatic attention seeking friends but in the past year she has matured a bit and is making better choices for sure. dD1 seems to take up most of everyone’s time and I think DD2 is used to just chilling in the background with no spotlight on her, so when her dad continually calls her out for petty this that and the other it makes her very angry, intimidated and hurt. To get DD2 to do what you want she usually wants a logical reason for it - ‘don’t use your phone right now because we have visitors and it’s impolite’ she will comply. But his way is ‘get off the fucking phone. Cos I say so’ does not work with DD2.

DD1 has rejected all hobbies and interests - she gives up very easily. I’m trying to convince her to get a little job as I think this regulation will help her massively!

I have zero experience with splitting up etc but reading what you say, I don't think DD2 should have to go. 14 is big enough to make your own mind up on this and it sounds like he's really horrible to her and worst of all unfair in the different ways he treats her and her sister.

I also think that you should be handling it with her father, communicating this, reading the way that he reacts when she does things "wrong". Whether you tell him straight or bend the truth with her suddenly having lots of other stuff going on, is up to you, I think it will be tricky whichever way you approach it.

I hope that you get some good advice around DD1, although I see that in the last year she has got a lot better. Some kids are just some ways - I have a very calm, quiet, considered one - she sounds like your DD2, and my other one is on a hair trigger of emotional drama at all times! One takes after me, one her dad, I won't say which way around it is..!

Other than you should be telling your ex that she is not going (you are the adult) you are not in the wrong.

But, I think you seem very happy to label your dc1 and you need to be careful about that.

My almost 16 yr old decided he no longer wished to be in contact with his dad about 3 years ago. DC just blocked him on all social media / phone and email.

He knows I'll support him if he ever wants to get back in contact.

It's his desision as far as I'm concerned.

DD1 has been diagnosed with ADHD and attachment disorder and anxiety.
I don’t medicate her because we didnt get the diagnosis until late and she’s kind of managed all this time without it and I’m more into coping strategies.
I don’t want to label her but I can’t turn a blind eye and pretend she doesn’t have behavioural problems and that in part it’s our parenting.
She gets a LOT of support and attention, more so than DD2 and I feel like in part this is now where I should be concerntrating on DD2, as she needs me. She’s good at coping but she shouldn’t have to. She has her own faults don’t get me wrong but I do not see either of them as better than the other or more golden and black sheep. DD1 is very funny and we also have a lot in common of likes/dislikes, when she wants to we are also a great team. DD2 is more reserved and prefers her own company which can be stand offish

From what you've already said your dd1 hasn't managed all this time, and your refusal to accept that could be harming her. She needs medication to function at a normal level, your basically expecting your child to help herself beyond her own capability to do so by using coping strategies alone and not medication.

She wasn’t managing when she was younger. Ive been to GP countless times and was passed from pillar to post, counsellors who only stayed 2 weeks on her case, lost reports etc. It was a bit of a shit show and she wasn’t engaged (and I can see why, it was just a rubbish system).

The tipping point was when she became violent towards me. last year she got a proper assessment but IMO she has made a lot of improvements - learned how to manage a lot of her emotions and outbursts are further and fewer between. She’s nearly leaving school, understands about the medication, doesn’t want to take it, doesn’t want people keep interfering. I think at 16, having looked into it you have to want to engage and understand the condition, not just take meds, she has so many learned behaviours now she’s not far off being an adult. If she changes her mind she knows she can take it.

Without knowing the background you can’t know what lengths I have gone to. I invited her dad to all her sessions and he never came and kept telling her it was a waste of time. I ended up looking like I had munchausens to him and his family! I’ve spent 16 years worrying about her and feel guilty less time worrying about DD2, who now needs it