daughter loathes me (long)

[matilda57]

I don't know if anyone can shed some light on what is happening between me and my daughter. It may seem obvious, but it is very difficult to live with.
About 18 months ago her father (my ex husband) was killed in an accident. My daughter is 19. Her father was abusive and made our lives hell (leaving him made very little difference). HOwever, I encouraged a relationship between him and our kids and, come the end, they were very close. As you can imagine, losing him suddenly has been very tough on my kids.
My daughter has however developed an extremely powerful hatred of me. She literally loathes my entire being - she is phobic about me. However, she is doing A levels (a year late because of the disruption of losing her dad) and although she moved out and cut me off entirely, she hasn't been able to cope with living independently, coping with her bereavement, and negotiating A levels. She eventually came to live here with me (and her brother) but the terms are that I cannot in any way express even the slightest indication of myself as a person. I have largely concentrated on looking after her physically - food, lifts, money (though I am extremely strapped myself - thanks, it has to be said, to her wealthy dad who fought hard in the courts to make sure I got nothing). She is having a breakdown probably, and wants a 'perfect' life, which means no stress whatsoever in any area of her life. She has been here for 2 weeks but this morning I made the 'mistake' of telling her something about myself (relatively small). Her reaction has been intense. I have just dropped her off somewhere and I am now receiving copious extremely abusive texts. She can send 20 or so texts, a torrent of intense abuse.
I can pull off being a completely blank slate for the duration of her exams and will watch that I don't 'slip up' by indicating anywhere along the line that I am human. But I am very concerned about how she is going about things. Her behaviour is also uncannily like her father's, who was intensely controlling, and this is a great personal challenge for me. I understand more of why her father behaved the way he did, but as a reason, not an excuse.
She says she can tackle issues when her exams are over, but I really don't think she will. For a while she was suicidal and told me, in detail, how she was planning to do it. This made me completely cowed to her every command - I can't risk anything else at the moment (it is not for me to be making a stand iyswim - I am not the one?). I am terrified that if I do she will carry out her threats to kill herself - it wouldn't surprise me.
I have tried to organise therapy of some kind but, sadly, none come up to scratch for her (and, again sadly, I have to agree to a large extent. Mental health provision in this country is abysmal a lot of the time). I can't afford private therapy. Years ago I had a lot of therapy myself, but what I see now bears no resemblance to the helpful therapy I had then. Therapists seem to do more harm than good, with their convoluted theories that seem far removed from what it is actually like to be a human being, particularly one who is suffering. In short, I don't trust them; though I despair about what can be done about my daughter and the awful situation we are in. We are/she is in absolute crisis.
Am I really the evil bully she says I am I wonder? I have dug deep on this, and can't see what she means. I haven't been perfect - no way! - and the years (all my kids' lives!) of being caught in the endless bombs her father set off took their toll on me and on our family life. It has been hell on earth, despite trying my hardest to get free from him and his controlling abuse; as well as trying to establish as much normality as possible in the circumstances.

I wont post on this thread anymore, because I realise my personal issues are affecting the way I see it. Sorry again matilda, if Ive upset you because I know mumsnet is here for giving support.
I`ll just say again, that the fact you are wanting to analyse what is going on is a really positive sign, and makes me sure that things will work out okay for you in the end.

aw Sakura I had said (in the post that I asked to be deleted) a particular 'thank you' to you for being understanding! The list was spot on - she really is going through all that stuff. I also said that dd and I have always had a very good relationship until very recently. Very close, good friends, lots of fun, great rapport. Which is why recent developments have been such a shock .
I just needed all to remember that there is a real person on the end of this thread, with a real (horrendous) crisis going on. I could probably take objective discussions about suicide any other time, but not now.
btw I also wanted to say thank you to NurseyJo for sharing your experiences. I'm sorry you lost your beloved dad when you were so young X

Still haven't printed up this thread - problems with printer.

Awful today. Dd called me, very distressed - a friend from school has died! He had leukaemia, which dd didn't know, and his death was pretty unexpected. I picked her up and took her home - she was like a statue, then sobbed in the car. If you've had a significant bereavement - particularly a sudden death - you just can't take any more deaths. Then she asked if she could be left on her own in the house (gulp ). She called a few hours later saying she had cut off her hair!! I panicked - not to her, I kept calm - but I was so shocked. Please don't anybody judge or say she is being a drama queen. From what I can gather, someone (particularly a woman) cutting off their hair is a sign of significant distress. It is also common to get a drastic haircut after a bereavement - either death or eg divorce. But to cut it yourself?

Ds has started GCSEs today, and I later asked her to make sure there wasn't loads of hair everywhere, which can look so shocking (her hair was very long, and she has cut it very short) and I don't want ds freaked out. My mind was going into overdrive - weird hacked-at hair, clumps of hair everywhere. She said everything was tidied up, so ds wouldn't be coming home to something really upsetting. Turns out she called him and told him. I honestly don't think she has any idea how inappropriate that was when he is in the middle of exams. Our lawyer asked me yesterday if she is getting out, going to parties etc, and I said NO! She is FAR too fragile at the mo. Big lump in my throat here. Ds seemed to take it in his stride, but he was hyper tonight, and I don't think he's asleep now :-(

Got home and it doesn't look bad at all. I was completely calm and natural when I saw her, even taking a few minutes putting stuff away in the kitchen (I didn't rush in to see her - don't need to make a drama out of a crisis LOL). It is long at the front and looks pretty funky. It's a bit choppy at the back but it does look good. Perhaps this is something she needed to do? She seemed ashamed of the hair she'd cut off, or hated it, and put it straight in the wheelie bin. I suggested she could put it on the compost, or recycling bin, but she was adamant she wanted it straight in the rubbish.

She definitely can't cope with the world at the mo. Ds plays the cello and has started playing the Bach cello suites - and they get you right in the guts. Dd just can't take hearing them at the mo. She spends a lot of time with earplugs in her ears.

The wonderful thing is that she is still studying. It's like an oasis for her - her entire world has crashed around her ears, but her brain ticks over in a structured, academic way. I think it gives her purpose and structure. She understands the academic world, understands how you get the grades, how to work the system to get the points. Tbh I think it is a puzzle she knows and understands, which makes her feel safe. Life is just too unmanageable and unfathomable for her at the mo.

Reading this through, I think this is classic bereavement stuff ie someone who loses their marbles for a bit after a shocking bereavement. This may sound mad to say, but there seemed to be something healthy about what she did today? Although it was shocking, it seemed clean somehow, not tortured and agonised as things have been before.

Hi Matilda

Have read most of your thread, how very sad for both you and dd, to have all this happen.

I just wanted to tell you that i was a horrible teenager and hated my mum, but we now get on really well. She says all the time that she is so "thankful for her daughter"
i had alot of angst/anger from being abused and it came out on my mum unfortunately. I used to ring phone councellers alot and self examined/helped till i healed. Meaning i studyed psychology and abuse to help myself.

I needed to know about others and talk to similar people, this is a little different but i'm sure your dd will come good again with help.

I really think you need to find a recommended counceller. (ask friends, family or even on here for one) My friend got one to help her deal with her demanding mother and it has really helped by influencing her behaviour back to her daughter. She now knows how to deal with her mother IYKWIM. A couple of sessions with a really good counceller should be all that's needed, not much money really.

She does sound like she is grief and taking it out on you, she needs to know what to do with her grief.

i think you've handled yesterday brilliantly. it sounds like she needs space, knowing that you won't crash in but she can come to you on her terms. she IS going through a lot and needs to work it through. i think there is quite a bit of transferrance going on - blaming you for what's happening - but i think that's inevitable when you have as strong a relationship as yours. i think you are handling the situation very well.

Thank you for the vote of confidence warthog .

Uki I'm so wary of counsellors at the mo tbh. I have had some appalling experiences recently with some psychologists I got a referral to (for ds) through child mental health; plus some amazingly bad therapy in the last few attempts. Dd has tried quite a few counsellors but she seems to draw a blank. I also think that she is in SUCH crisis, that now is not the time to launch into any 'work'. She recently - finally - got an appt with Cruse, but the guy started off with an obviously heavy therapeutic approach (duh!). I can't help thinking this is madness - she is GRIEVING ffs, as anyone who seeks an appointment at Cruse is: it's hardly the time for heavy-duty digging! She needs to be 'held' with a counsellor (I don't mean physically, though maybe that too!). She is far too unwell to be applying herself to 'therapy'.

I was thinking yesterday that, actually, she is making her way through quite well. I'm not saying it's all hearts and roses (hollow laugh) but I wonder what people did before therapy? They freaked out, lost their marbles, got through it SOMEHOW, came out the other side (hopefully). I've had a reliance on therapy as a kind of 'OMG! I need a therapist right now - this crisis is too huge! I will never cope without one!'. I'm not so sure now. Sometimes I wonder if I've coped in the past DESPITE therapists tbh.

She had her hair shaped at the hairdresser's today and it looks cool! Very different look though. She decided she wanted a hat and, as I was going to the shopping mall anyway, she asked if we (I!) could get her a hat. She ended up being in the most FOUL mood (honestly, I think there is a nuclear element to her moods) and I finally made it clear that there was no way she was getting a hat with the way she was talking to me. Things are so egg-shells at the mo that I don't say it in a Young Lady! way, but plain and blank. I braced myself for the onslaught later - not verbal but oozed through pores - that she is self-conscious bcs of her hair and that it was cruel of me not to get her a hat. For a start it was nearly 20 quid and for another it made her look like a rapper from the Bronx ('who is that girl?' i thought). She just looked horrible and I don't think for a minute she would wear it more than twice. IF it was cheaper, IF her behaviour hadn't been so vile, IF I knew she'd wear it regularly, that might have been different. I'd had to pay for the haircut anyway (not cheap).

She has been earning some good money up until recently - lots of p/t jobs - but that's had to go bcs of her exams, plus the losing her marbles thing... If she's got her own money to buy a hat then fine, if not - and if she wants to snarl at me - then it's no go I'm afraid. Though that was pretty brave of me in the circumstances. In the past it wouldn't have been remotely brave - that kind of thing happened regularly - but at the moment it is.

well i think that because she's throwing herself into her work, that in a way is her therapy. what will she do when her exams are over though?

i think this will sound a bit too simple, but i do think doing physical work is very therapeutic. gardening, woodwork, something that involves effort and requires brain power, but not too much. it sounds strange, and i probably don't know what i'm talking about really, but it works for me. might help a tiny bit if you're sick to death of counsellors.

I completely agree with you warthog! She is a dancer and a serious cyclist. Since all this started I've been nagging her to keep up with something physical - it is the BEST medicine. When she does, the girl that comes back is a completely different person!

I've also been trying to keep up with cycling (not serious like her - just me on my doddery bike) bcs it is an amazing stress/mood buster. But it keeps raining!

that's great! i think it allows you the time to work things through in your mind whilst being productive somehow. and with exersize you get the endorphins / smug factor / food points for eating chocolate cake later.

perhaps you could both go cycling? on a nice day, take a picnic somewhere?

does she try and compete with you?

Well yes I guess she is competitive warthog LOL LOL LOL. She is a SERIOUS cyclist - got the posh bike (Le MOnde?) - wheels as thin as razors - which she saved up for herself, plus all the accessories. It's a bit of a cool community I find (read: unfriendly) and she would be horrified to be cycling along with me on my Miss Marple bike LOL. We all used to cycle a lot (bcs it's FREE LOL) but right now my kids doing things with their mum is NOT on the agenda, unfortunately . Ah well, I'm sure it'll come back round...

btw she went out last night with some friends - low key - and came back relaxed and happy. Kids these days are so loving to one another, they really care about eachother. They have all tried to support her, and she doesn't see that they're trying, only that they don't understand. You wouldn't would you unless it had happened to you? I guess that's part of bereavement - you can feel isolated bcs people just don't quite get it unless it has happened to them. INitially a lot of her friends (most) backed right off, which was such a challenge to her - they just couldn't handle it. So it was up to her to show them that she didnt' have two heads bcs her dad had been killed. She has since met up with kids who have lost a parent (it is a secret community) and that has helped a lot. Recently in our community a man went missing for over a month and was then found dead in his van at a petrol station - nobody knew how long he had been there, or what happened all that time. HIs daughter has just had her 18th birthday, and dd had her 18th a few months after her dad died (which she absolutely did NOT want to celebrate), so she has been able to comfort this girl. I always think it's good to give out something when yu're suffering yourself.

hello matilda
i've been off work and haven't been able to follow this thread till today.

how to keep a relationship at arms length...

well, i move to college 270 miles awy from my parents. my sister stayed at home and was caught up in my parents physico-battles. she didn't move as far away as me and came back at weekends to the house being dirty and uncleaned, no food on the table and basically locked herself in her room most days/nights to avoid all the shouting and yelling matches.

i was glad to get out of there (aged 18) and began to develope as a young woman with out the baggage of being my parents daughter.

finacially though i was very dependant on my parents. my father paid the rent and my mother gave me a small allowance every week (£20). i worked part-time and i had a small grant (when they had those things!) for art materials. i phoned my mum once a week and that was about the only contact i had.

they never came to visit me and i only went back when i had the money for the coach.

it was hard taking their money and still trying to be independant. once or twice my mother was sectioned (while i was away) and taken to hospital for her own protection. my only source of information on the whole affair was through my sister, who kept implying i was 'bad' for not being there and that she had to 'deal' with all mum's affairs on her own (my dad was the one who phoned the police and had her sectioned after a bad row. my sister and i believe he is the instigator of most of her mental problems but the doctors only delt with him, so we never got to know exactly what her condition was).

everytime she came out of hospital, she said to my dad if it ever got that bad again, she would leave him (she hasn't).

anyways, the moral of my story is that i love my family, but i hate the 'dark' side they bring out in me (violent, aggressive, confrontational) that for my own mental health, i have kept them at arms length. they don't see my children often, and i'm pleased that they are growing-up with better role models (my hubby's family is my 'ideal' 'normal' family that i respect).

the only legacy on my children is the 'dark' aspect which comes out of me every so often. i'm pleased to say though that i have never 'lost-it' and got that red mist, as i'm scared about what i can do to them.

blimey, i had a lot to get off my chest!

i hope all goes well with your daughter, but really she is a woman and try to respect that. i think getting a lodger sounds like a fab thing to do.

good luck,

casbie