If I confiscate from my son, he confiscates from me. Help!

[Nipplesunited]

This is starting to drive me insane.
He is 13. He refuses to go to school. This has resulted in me taking away his xbox, tv and internet. Until he returns to school. Simple, right?
No! He has taken the plug to the wifi hub so that everyone else in the house also has no access to anything. Everything is through the internet. I dont even have the normal tv channels.

He will give it back when he gets his stuff back.
I didnt watch tv anyway so im not bothered but his younger brothers do, and im not very well at the minute with my mental health. Allowing them to watch a bit tv or play a game now and then has been a lifesaver for me.

I dont know what to do other than giving him his shit back, but i really dont want to since it defeats the whole purpose. He has not been to school for 3 weeks now

As for the school. They are at a loss too.
I was getting him there and they were no sooner sending him home for disruption.
Punishments like detention didnt work with him as he would refuse, receive a bigger punishment and refuse that etc.
The school have tried loads to help but now theyre stuck. As i am.
We can only hope this new school will help.only i think its too late as he has got used to the idea of not going at all

I’ve been there and I’d like to give the advice I wish someone had given me.

You will get a court summons so if nothing is getting your son to school and you’re thertened with court get him out and send a letter to the LA saying that you’re homeschooling him.

Stop punishing and start talking. No punishment will work if your child is frightened, anxious or angry, you’re fighting big, teen emotions with logic, stop it. Don’t worry I tried all the same punishments out of total desperation, make friends again and find out what is going on. A 13 year old should have something to go to school for, if they’re not academic most teen boys want to kick a football around with their mates at least, something is going very wrong at school and you need to get him out or solve this with the school after a break.

The school cares more about Ofstead and their image than they do your child. Yes the school tried with me son but it was on their terms, so I took him out. The school will try to blame you, ignore this, unless you’re having raves till 4 am or crying until he stays home this isn’t your fault.

Then get help for your son, Social Services are not always the bad guy, so long as you’re loving and your house is reasonable they should see this and help you. I got nowhere with CHAMS by myself but my son is now been tested for ASD and his issues are being recognised. Thanks to prof of my son’s issues I’m getting careres allowence so I was able to give up my job to get my son sorted out.

Go to Facebook and you’ll find thousands of parents with the same issues. You’ll feel so much better as lots of good parents have the same issues.

Dullandold - you didnt. It was a good angle to look at it from.

What are his needs, for which a smaller school would be better?

He’s not confiscating from you, he’s stolen from you. Two completely separate things. Tell him the plug gets returned or you contact the police and have him charged. He is ruling the roost and he knows it.

He doesnt do well with change. He was fine in primary 100% attendance and on form with his school work.
I believe the changes in classes and teachers being frequent in comp are too much for him to handle.

There seems to be an issue with his perspective on things as well.
He doesnt seem to see things as others do, quite often. This results in a lot of negativity in the school setting due to the teachers not being aware of how he views things since the teachers change so often.

This could also be a part of the problem with the current consequences.
He believes he tries to get up for school because he opens his eyes.
I say that isnt good enough, because its just not!

He says its pointless trying anymore because i dont believe he tries anyway and its not his fault. Even though we have spoke of ways to help him get up in the morning, and although there are things he agrees would probably work he doesnt put into even try

The school doesn't sound great. You said you are trying to get him into a smaller school..any idea how soon that might be?

They said the waiting list is huge and they cant promise it will be any time soon

Sounds like you need to take all "punishments" off the table and try something else. Start off the new week with a clean slate. Everyone gets their property back today as an "amnesty" of sorts. Maybe get both of you to the gp tomorrow? You for help with your depression and him for whatever support they can offer. Then maybe start trying to focus on quality time for the two of you (not being naive or saying it's easy, but you don't want your relationship to deteriorate further, and in some ways it'll be easier to fix now than a few years down the line). Accept any and all support you can (for you and him).
Hugs and and .

I agree with Rabblemum. We had the same issues and school only went so far then threatened to prosecute even telling dh that a criminal record would mean him losing his job. They ultimately cared more for their attendance figures than one child.
We deregistered and homeschooled - 3 months later dd decided she wanted to be taught (rather than learn autonomously at home) so we tried a couple of schools before eventually finding the right one where she is settled and happy.
Breaking the cycle and showing you are at least trying to help him may work.
PS I had serious MH issues at the time too - SS and school decided dd did not want to go to school as (subconsciously) she could not be sure I would be home when she got back!

Has he been assessed for any sort of SEN? Not dealing well with transition, not seeing things as others do, refusing to go to school, strong ideas around justice, can be markers.

You cannot back him into a corner, you need to leave doors open everywhere. Taking more of his things to force compliance will be backing him further into the corner he is already in and he will probably lash out. You need to back off and have an open conversation.

Totally agree with noble - hence my advice above.

My ds didn’t attend school from end of last June until he started a new one in September.
If you spoke to old school they were doing EVERYTHING to get him back in - truth is they did nothing but make the right noises.

My ds has asd. He can only cope with his current school because the set up is that they out things in place for him to cope and when things go wrong they don’t go straight to punishment but talk to him. When there is a consequence it’s explained to him so he understands it.

Sounds like your ds needs to hear something positive. Try “yes ds you did really well opening your eyes. Breakfast is on the table for you - let’s get you down there as food will make you feel more awake”

Think how you’d feel telling someone you did really well managing the day with your depression and they replied “yeah well you still needed to game for an hour” it would knock the wind right out of your sails.

*Dullandold
*
In my country I could be dragged to court and get a sentence if I don't get a child to school. You'd pick up a 4 yr old who has a tantrum and bring them to school, why not a 13 year old? I'm not saying to use violence, just physically pick him up and bring him there.

yes but Blackcat we are not in your country and you couldn't have "two bouncers pick up a 13 year old and take him to school in his pyjamas" or whatever ridiculous thing you were suggesting without using violence could you? And you think that would go down well with the school do you? Get real.

It is through SEN i am able to get this other school. He is or has been statemented, only without a diagnosis. I am still waiting for the man to send the documents he has written up.

He is taller than me. I am very petite and would have no hope dragging him out of bed nevermind to school. Its also not allowed unfortunately.
I could still end up in court and piled with fines, but still nothing i can actually do to force him to go. In my eyes, this is where the system fails parents who are in genuine need of help. Thankfully, i havent had any fines up to now. Surprisingly!

I get what you are saying about him being back into a corner and i agree. Only how can i start again without him thinking im starting again because i want the plug back? How can i start again without him believing he has won?
Because if it is all down to him wanting control (which has been suggested during meetings etc), then wouldnt me giving him his stuff back without him complying just be feeding him the power and control?

Could i home school until this other school comes up with a placement?

Im just thinking a way to knock it all on the head could be me suggesting home schooling to him until we find another school. I dont know if he would and chances are he will not but im toying with the idea.

Where would i start with it all?
The positives of home schooling is he could focus more so on what he would like to do when he is older, and i could do that easy since id have something to go off. Everything else though...i have no idea?

But you do want your plug back and he’s not an idiot!
There’s no decent way to style this out so that you only ‘win’ and he only ‘loses’ and seeing it in that way is only going to cause problems. He feels out of control and often children who don’t have control over a particular area of their lives exert it over something else.

You need to sit down and talk with him about the best way forward. Set out what you want: him in education, and what you are doing about it - making home unpleasant, trying to get him into a different school. Then ask what he wants. Education is non-negotiable so what compromises can be made to achieve that? Are there other as-yet unexplored options like homeschooling/online schooling?

What do you mean he doesn't see things as others do?
He is a child. You're an adult. He doesn't get to take stuff from you. Take it back!
I have suffered with depression. I can't think how to word it gently. Please know I am NOT suggesting you are to blame. Is there any chance he's reacting to how you feel? My teen was scared for me when I was unwell. Really scared.

He is very literal.

An example when he was in school:
he was fiddling with a pencil and the pencil flicked out of his hand. Teacher told him off for flicking the pencil. He argued his point that he didnt flick it and everything escalated. He could not see the teachers view, nor could she see his.
Further punishments for his back chat and cheek are completely not seen by my son. He thinks every punishment placed after the pencil incident was due to him flicking the pencil which he didnt actually flick on purpose as the teacher thought. He then sees punishments as unfair due to it all being an accident and feels wronged.

Another side of him is where i have asked him not to have his bedroom window opened fully wide. It opens wide to where there might as well not be a window there (just so you can visualise it). He now deliberately has it like that no matter the weather. Rain comes in and goes straight on hos tv. Despite me explaining this is a fire hazard he still ignores.
If you are in england,you know how cold it is and has been on a night. He still refuses to close his window even slightly. I have walked in on a morning to find him sleeping in his coat under the blankets!
I have locked the window in the past. He has found other keys and hidden them. So now i just let him get on with it.

My depression could be having an impact on him, but i dont think this is his way of reacting to it. I was at my best for a long time before his behaviour changed. Its all of this stress that has sent me spiralling. Now im not blaming him, im saying its my inability of being able to find strategies that work for both of us. I am struggling. I have help and support, but no one has a magic wand unfortunately

This is a tough one - but my gut feeling is you are going to need to lose this battle to win the 'war'.

Can you sit down and say look things have gone really badly wrong haven't they and we need to get things right again. Lets give everyone their things back - it hadn't worked how we hoped and we are all being silly. Then have a day where you all do something nice and don't mention school x boxes or anything. Then the day after that start to tackle the actual problem which is school refusal.

Can I also suggest you look up tips for dealing with children with pathological demand avoidance. Now, I am not suggesting in any shape or form that your child has this but my child is a bit like yours in terms of punishment not working out how you'd think and not wanting to go to school. Anyway, these techniques seemed to work with him better than other techniques do.

Noblegiraffe and grasspigeon - tomorrow is school day. I told him on thursday and that monday should be the fresh start day, back to school etc. He agreed but didnt appear convincing. If he doesnt go, then i will still use it as a fresh start and have a chat with him about expectations and options etc.

Thank you grasspigeons i will look into that

blackcat my 13 year old weighs the same as me! I'm so glad he's not a school refuser because I couldn't bloody lift him!

Of course you're not blaming him.
Have you heard of oppositional defiant disorder? I'm NO psychologist but there seems to be some features of that going on. Have a look and see what techniques work for that and see if they might help you?
Would school and he agree to him working somewhere safe outside of lessons for a short while? Are there any staff he gets on ok with.
He sounds overwhelmed
So do you OP.

Why do you need to win?

Your ds mind sounds like it works similar to my ds. My ds has asd and he sees everything as a tit for tat exchange. This is due to his disability and lack of understanding normal social exchanges and conventions.

Right now everyone is losing. Especially the 13yo child who is missing out on so much of his childhood due to undiagnosed need and due to meet that currently isn’t met.

Don’t worry about ewo. I was threatened with them and j said I’d happily stand up in court and explain exactly why my son couldn’t attend school and exactly what I’d tried to do about it. I also said I was sure many papers would be interested in the story (I knew they would because the final straw contained knife crime of which ds was the victim).
Suddenly everyone actually did something rather than make noises. It’s amazing how spaces suddenly appear in schools when pushed etc.

And don’t forget if he has an EHCP amdnigs agreed this is the nearest place that can meet need they are legally obliged to facilitate a place unless it’s at the detriment of other students. If they can’t provide a place here suggest a few independent provisions as alternatives - reminding them of their statutory duty to provide an education - and suggest they approach them.

It’s utterly draining but you need to get tough with the right people.