Arguing about politics

[lizzieoak]

My lovely ds is driving me a bit bonkers. Which is his job at 17. However ... I’m wondering to what extent it’s my job to challenge some of his wilder hyperbole?

He’s intensely political. He had a gf who was a Marxist (& so were her parents) & he idolized all of them. She went away to uni but they are back in touch and his rhetoric has ramped up again.

For the most part I don’t rise to it. He wants to talk at me all the time about political issues, including issues where he knows I’ll disagree w him. Suffice it to say I’m more old school left wing and don’t see things as black and white as he does and don’t swallow the party line on anything really. My degree is in political science and I worked in a political environment for a few years and ... well, I’m older so my views are maybe more nuanced.

He’s very well-informed, which is great. But he comes out w utter bolllocks, like this morning he told me that the Republicans in the US had created a slice of people too poor for Obamacare and not poor enough for Medicaid on purpose to “literally” murder poor people.

I pointed out that rich people require poor people so he went off and had a think about that.

Thing is - I hate arguing politics, I don’t think it works for the most part, and I don’t want to fall out with him. He has good intentions, he’s just got that 17 year old lack of nuance. But some of the stuff he comes out w is ridiculous.

Is questioning him on his more loony statements a good middle road between ignoring him and engaging in useless arguments with him? My exh never outgrew that inflammatory black and white view of things so I worry a bit for ds as I don’t think railing against the big stuff (capitalism!) while not doing any good on a local level is a route to happiness. Nor do I think coming across as a windbag who knows best is going to attract good people.

Virginia Woolf? ds had a great Meti socials teacher who was passionate about First Nations history, and dd currently has a history teacher who is a bit stuck in the Cold War but otherwise I've not got much of a feeling of political belief at all really. We've just moved from the Interior to Vancouver though, it might be different in the city perhaps.

Yes, Virginia. I think the teacher has chosen To the Lighthouse.

Maybe it is different in smaller towns? My son is in an AP program so they go deeper than the regular curriculum.

All his teachers have been very big on First Nations stuff (politics and history).

I’m surprised though at the stuff they leave out - no Winnipeg General Strike, no Japanese Canadian interment, no Vancouver Island Coal Wars etc.

I think a lot depends on the individual teacher. We've been a bit disappointed with dd's Vancouver school, seems to be much more traditional than the previous school. Lots of exams and less student autonomy. The old school district didn't run any AP courses but had some dual credit courses with the local university in Grade 12 (nice introduction to university and also paid for by the school district which was nice). New school has a 'mini' school which means that dd's grade 12 classes have grade 11s in them. She's not impressed, thinks the mini students are a bit cocky.

dd has studied Japanese internment but the Grade 11/12 syllabus seems very European centred, mostly the Western front in WWI and II. It was interesting to see the difference in focus on WWI. dd is quite a pacifist and has picked up what I think of as a pretty mainstream English view that WWI was a terrible, unnecessary fiasco. She found the patriotism of the Canadian view very strange.

I think he sounds great, but then as a Marxist I would. We don't all get more 'nuanced' as we age, you know. Indeed, you sound somewhat patronising, hope he gives you more hell.

I think part of the patriotism of the Canadian delivery is that it’s considered that Ypres was “birth of a nation”. Not that I agree, but it’s commonly accepted mythology.

Squeezer, I think it’s a rare adult who doesn’t think (particularly after a degree in a subject and working in a subject area) they know a tad more than a 17 year old. He’s smarter than I am, but doesn’t have the life experience nor the degree I have.

Some of his teachers are great, but some are not very strong in their subject areas.

Oh I know, and I understand where it comes from. dd just found it hard to relate to. The class had a 'do a presentation' type project last year on important WWI battles and one of the questions they had to address was something like what was the importance of the battle. dd focused on how completely pointless it was and showed a clip of Blackadder goes Forth. She told me that all the other groups read their battles very differently.

Anyway, back to managing too many political conversations at home :) My dh tends to opt out a bit unless they are more on the history than the feelings. He also worries as dd can get very upset which affects her sleeping so he tends to shut the discussions down more than me. ds and I get on well enough that I can tell him 'enough!' he can be very black and white so we've given him books and pointed him toward resources that present different points of view. Luckily he's stopped using debating tricks on dd now as that really really wound her up as she felt that he'd do anything to win (which is completely true).

Fundamentally though I think it's a good way to connect so I am happy to join in most of the time.

Nooka, it is a good way to connect. Just I want to chat about a variety of topics. He’s a bit more relaxed the last couple of weeks so has been talking to me about a wider variety of topics which is nice.

That’s too bad your dd gets stressed about these things. My dd was the same at that age, but has mellowed now she’s in her 20’s. Ds mostly holds onto the concept that I’m a decent person, but does enjoy arguing a lot more than I do, so it can be challenging. I could certainly have worse problems with a teenager though!

I think your son sounds absolutely wonderful. Young people are often idealistic and a bit extreme in their views; this can be an amazing thing, giving them the courage and energy to make real changes happen.

My son has been devoting himself passionately to a very idealistic endeavour, and it is actually about to happen (bringing a labour union to a very exploitative business in the US). I have been convinced he would never succeed, but his youthful courage and single-mindedness is about to pay off.

At the moment, I feel very moved by the annoying and unrealistic attitudes which make impossible things happen.