so fed up with ds being rude o me and not even understanding he was rude

[steppemum]

So, went to pick ds and dd1 up from station. dd2 is in car as we have come from shopping. Dd2 is in front seat.
Battles over who sits in the front are epic and ongoing and drive me mad. I refuse to engage.
ds is 14 and 6 foot tall.

ds won't get in the car- 'it is my turn to sit in front.'
me- get in the back or I will drive off and you can walk
ds refuses to move
me- start engine and drive off. Ds runs alongside car (big empty car park.) Then gives up and screams BITCH as he stomps away.

I drive a circuit round the car park, and then stop by him and he jumps in the back
DON'T EVER DO THAT TO ME AGAIN YOU STUPID WOMAN
me- you have just lost your phone for the weekend, there is no way you are speaking to me like that, totally innappropriate.

On the way home, constant stream of comment on my driving, on the route home (roadworks are causing lots of traffic jams at the moment, so we keep trying alternatives)
4 times more he called me stupid, one of which was stupid bugger, also called me silly, dangerous driver (because I drove off without him and with him running by car) Harangued me for several minutes over how I had 'put the girls in danger' (I hadn't)
Repeats AGAIN twenty times about what a ridiculous route home I have chosen.

Get home, will not hand phone over. Dh is home, I call him down, ds is cornered in hall, and we get phone off him. In the process he shouts more rudeness, and accuses me of lying and tells me I never told him why his phone was going and on and on and on.

I'm afraid at this point I shout back and tell him that we don't want him downstairs when he is so foul mouthed and antisocial, so he can go to his room (x box is downstairs)

I know he was tired and irritable (always after school) and I know he was upset over the car etc. And I know he will calm down and apologise, but I am really sick to the stomach that he can say this stuff and throw it at me when he is cross.

He has never heard any adult speak that way, we don't even swear!
He doesn't even get it that calling me 'woman' like that is unbelievably rude.

I don't know where it comes from, and I am so tired of having 'defend' myself against a child.

Then tomorrow he will probably be lovely and funny and kind and I will wonder why I get stressed.

He sounds like a little shit.
I'm sorry, I know he's your son, but he does.

I would have put him out of the car with his bus fare. How dare he speak to you like that.

They really can be the most insufferable little shits at that age can't they. You and DH need to be firm and united in your parenting and you will get through it.

I really regret going round the car park and picking him up.

But at that point he hadn't said most of it, he was just stroppy about not sitting in the front.

Yes, today on the way home, he was a little shit.
To be fair that is only one snapshot moment. We get moments like that about once a week. we clamp down, consequences, and talk about appropriate language yadder yadder,
he is lovely for about a week until he isn't.

It is a vile, vile age, OP. You poor sod

going out tonight, to friends for dinner. Just me and dh. My Mum is babysitting.
This is VERY VERY rare occurrence, was looking forward to having an adult evening, now I just want to drink too much and cry.

He will be charming to my mum, because he does actually know how to behave.
Was going to ask him to pick dd1 up from scouts so Mum doesn't have to, but no chance of that now.

There is absolutely no way I would have put up with that. He would have been out of my car. I do think you driving away then letting him back in is giving his ammo though. It should have been 'get in the back or catch a bus if you'd rather' .
Tired and irratable my ass!

I understand DS was just the same and for some reason its always mum who gets the brunt. I think it's because they're closest to us they feel they can sound off on us. It's no consolation at the time but they do get through it eventually.

I went round and picked him up because normally he would have got in the car and shut up, point made. The tirade at me was unexpected.

To those who say - kick him out of the car - how exactly? He is 6 foot tall, and if he says no, I am stuffed.

In most contexts I can assert my authority and get him to do/not do what is necessary, but not always, hence him standing with car door open refusing to move because dd2 is in front.

yes I can threaten and remove devices (he now has no phone and no x box which is death as far as he is concerned) but I can only do that after the event, I cannot remove the phone as we are driving along.

At this age you almost need to treat them like toddlers. Ignore the bad behaviour, reward the good. The problem is that they have the inteligence due to age to engage on a more adult level but not the emotional maturity to keep their mouth shut and engage on a more mature level rather than just saying the first thing that they think. And we were all that age once, and even if we didn't ever say it to our parents, we probably all thought they were awful beings at some oint...

So, he refuses to get in the car you hand him his bus fare and drive off. If he calls you names, shouts, swears, is generally awful warranting the removal of his phone and he refuses to hand it over then he gets a choice. "Either you hand over the phone for the weekend or I'll ring the phone company and have it cut off permanently. Your choice sunshine."

Xbox, wifi, money are all privileges not rights, and he might do well to remember that.

And breathe and utter the inimitable words "it's a phase, this too shall pass."

Is it a rare occurrence or does it happen weekly?

Next time you need to give bigger consequences. Are you sure he doesn’t talk to teachers or female classmates like that?

Either you hand over the phone for the weekend or I'll ring the phone company and have it cut off permanently. Your choice sunshine.

this does work.
Usually I go with, hand it over for 24 hour ban, or every time I ask I will add a day.
hand it over #1 - 24 hours.
no?
hand it over #2 - 2 days
no?
then he gives me the phone. He knows I will follow through.

Lol ( not meanly ) toddler tantrum in a teenager . I think you handled it rather well - I'd be done the same told him to get in the back or I'd drive off . I would only have gone back I think if I knew he could get home safely . Sometimes you have to follow through but obvs can't comment on this . Maybe it's just my sense of humour but am giggling at the thought of a teenager throwing a strip over seating arrangements then running after the car . Seriously though have that glass of wine and laugh not cry . Sit down with him or his dad to sit down with him and make quite clear his behaviour was ' worthy of a two year old ' , next time you will drive off even though you presume he was panicked when you did . That calling you woman and bitch is not acceptable and neither is it acceptable to behave this with any other girl/ woman . Ball is in his court . Boundaries ! Easy for me to say I know 🍸🍸

I have a theory that 2 and 3 year olds are very bad at being children and trying to figure out how to do it well; they get really good at being kids by the time they are 10. Then they get to 12 or 13, and they are really terrible at being adults and trying (very incompetently) to figure out how to do it well. They get really good at it by 17, 18, 19 or so.

One thing I used to do when my 3 were being a pain in the car was to pull over and just ignore them, read my book, stand outside the car if necessary, ostentatiously enjoying the view, etc, until they were "ready to behave". I also went through a stage of not letting anyone sit in front until they were all "ready to behave". I did all of this kind of sneery-ironic, not a very nice tone from me, but better than getting involved in their nonsense.

Would you believe that I now look back with misty eyes at teenage fights? Two of them are gone to uni, and I don't think they will ever communicate with this kind of intensity with one another again .

I read a really useful article today on the teenage brain. Nothing I haven't read before, but a good reminder that they just can't regulate their behaviour. teenage brain

That said - you don't have to put up with that kind of abuse. We had a similar incident in Macdonalds recently. It was total self sabotage on Dd's part as I rarely offer to take them there. To cut a long story short we didn't end up eating there and now I doubt I'll ever take her there again.

Going forward, buy him a bus pass and refuse all lifts unless absolutely necessary till he's learnt his lesson.

Tonight, console yourself with this, He will be charming to my mum, because he does actually know how to behave (because you taught how to do that and you need to recognise and give yourself points for doing a good job despite all the teenage drama and hot air) and have a great night.

martella - this was the worst he has spoken to me I think. General strop and rudeness weekly, but this was worse than usual.

No he doesn't talk to teachers like this, super selective grammar with very high behaviour standards, I would be called up to school for a fratcion of this. All his teachers always say he is very polite.
Boys school, but he shares train and schools grounds with girls school, and I don't think he would ever talk to his female friends like this.

I'm coming at it from a bit of a different angle.

At that age sitting in the front means a hell of a lot. I think as the elder and taller sibling he should have got into the front.

I also think that a lot of boys can be horrible when they're hungry - they're not mature enough to realise that's what's wrong (and I've seen this in men as well, not just boys - think how many on here say that their husbands are horrible when they first come home, before they eat.) They are growing so rapidly at that age and you can hardly give them enough to eat. If he came out of school starving and his younger brother refused to get out of "his" seat - and let's face it the back seat would be very uncomfortable, too, if he's 6 ft tall - then that would be enough to start a fight.

I taught boys that age for years and have my own son - I think you should cut him some slack whilst coming down on the fact he used bad language against you.

Pascall - he does get the bus sometimes, so he knew he coudl get home.
dh normally picks them up, I just happened t be in town.
I told him that next week if dh can't get them I will not be picking him up in the car, and he will be funding those bus trips himself, as it is a consequence of his car behaviour. I will make sure that there are a couple of days when dh is too busy to get him.

Bit hard on dd1 though. Bus takes much longer.

(hmm, wondering if I can get dd1 and make him take bus??)

I was going to say the same as Pascall; he does know how to behave as you've taught him that, so hang on to that. Enjoy your night out; don't cry; if he sees you are upset he'll know exactly what buttons to press next time he's pushing the boundaries. And he will - that's how he'll learn exactly where they are. At least wrong-foot him.
I would have left him in the car park; free speech is not without consequences..

Brilliant - he doesn't get to sit in the front most of the time as dh and I are in the front of the car.
no, eldest doesn't always get the front. Why shouldn't the younger ones sometimes get the front? Why should they wait til he has left home?? (Our youngest is quite vocal about fairness towards youngest as well as oldest)

On the school run he and dd1 takes turns. He has plenty of leg room in the back. Car is spacious enough.

Totally agree with hungry though. I usually deliberately avoid saying anything controversial until he has eaten. Been like that since he was a toddler. I have been seriously working with him though to self recognise and self control that. Ds you are being irritable because you are hungry, please go and eat. Is frequently heard in our house.
Big gap between irritable and bloody rude though

Yes, pick up dd, wave as you pass the bus stop. When he says sorry properly (with flowers, chocs, makes the tea etc) then you can let him back in the car.

Thanks all, you've amde me feel better.

I have to go and find food for kids and get changed.

I would get very very firm on this, not as a parenting issue even, but as a respect for yourself issue. You do not deserve to be going through this.

I would sit DS down at a time when he is calm and tell him that he is surprising you as he is behaving like a toddler when that is not his normal way of doing things. I would ask if he has any particular grievances about independence or things he's allowed to do, and write a list of what he says without even discussing it. I would then tell him I would speak to him later about it.

Then I would spell out to him exactly the way he is not allowed to talk to you: no name calling, no swearing, no berating and nagging. Make it very clear what the consequences of each infraction will be. Coach him on how he can approach you and talk to you when he has a problem.

I would make sure to lovebomb him when he is not being foul, in a way that a teenager can understand/appreciate.

Basically to open the lines of communication in three ways - more love and encouragement when he's being pleasant, easier communication when he's stressed, and absolutely no abuse.

Of course you can get DD1 and not him. She didn't do anything to not deserve a lift. He did.

If he's not behaving like this to other people, then it's because he feels he can do it with you (some people see this as a compliment but in your case I wouldn't). So he sees you as a soft touch. Work out what your consequences are going to be for future behaviour of this kind then you'll be ready for the next outburst. It'll help if you know you can carry them out without having to physically confront him - so removal of lifts, phone, other privileges even if after the fact. Staying super calm will help with this though I know it's hard.

I think Clara's got it. Unfortunately when they get to their teens they know exactly which buttons to push and how to get under your skin. The fact that he's doing well in other aspects of his life means he's a basically good boy and you're doing a good job which means when he get past this stage and he will then he will be the lovely boy you always knew.
Strict parenting at this stage, and you and dad must work together or he'll play on that too.
Enjoy your evening and treat tomorrow as a new day.