Run out of ideas...at the end of our tether. V long!

[LazySusan11]

Dh dd my dsd is 14, quick back story we share 50:50 and live close to dsd mum and partner, all of us get on well no issues between us. Have been with dh many years (no affair, amicable split)

The issue we do have is my dsd, we are going round and round in circles. Her attitude towards all of those around her is awful.

She speaks to dh,her mum, her partner myself and her grandparents as if we are staff members, she never says please or thank you.

She has many privileges which she feels she is entitled to and this is our problem. Dsd has a curfew and just before she will call up and ask if she can sleepover at Xs house, parent says no or we'll rearrange for a more convenient day. This isn't good enough for her, she will not accept no.

After being told no she will then pester incessantly by text, then send rude messages then more begging texts, all of which go ignored after she's been told no and given the reason for parents decision.

Then she will phone and phone and phone and phone then she will call whichever parent she is not with that night to ask again even though both dh and her mum are on the same page and back each other. The answer is still no.

Then she refuses to come home and isn't where she is meant to be when told she is being picked up.

Consequences of this are being stopped from going out. The next day she behaves as if nothing has happened and when she asks can I go out/can X sleepover and she's told no and it's once again reiterated why she goes mad. When she doesn't get her own way she screams shouts slams doors is rude and this goes on for around 2 hrs. She follows you around, she is relentless.

She has been spoken to/shouted at/privileges revoked/more time spent 1-1/parents and dsd have all written a 'contract' with each other she then ignores this.

This afternoon I got shouted at and told "it's the holidays you're ruining my life! I'm going out tomorrow and there's nothing you can do."

I back dh I don't discipline unless she's rude to me or if dh asks me to step in. My job I feel is to support from behind which I do.

I have had an absolute gutful, this week has been absolute hell, it doesn't matter what you do she refuses to listen. It's rare she's shouted at dh and I tend to walk away when she's screaming at us and dh says they will talk when she's less angry.

Once the meltdown is over and she is then calm dh and her will talk, he asks her questions she explains things, she says she understands and is sorry and we all feel like we've made progress only to have it all escalate again because within the hour she's asking for a sleepover and being reminded that her going out or having a sleepover is a no at this time.

She goes out almost everyday and the same issue arises each day it's never ending and I'm so tired of it all.

Does anyone have any ideas of how to break this never ending cycle.

She seems to not be able to control her outbursts or her emotions. Does she have any problems at school? or is her behaviour like this only at home? She may have underlying issues (apart from teenage rebellion) that may make it more difficult for her to accept what you are telling her. Similar to a toddler having a tantrum - they are not open to reason. Young people with even mild autism, ADHD etc can exhibit this behaviour. It's just best to rule out other things rather than labelling the behaviour as a naughty child. Try to distract her when she is fixated or tell her when she can have a sleepover and then remind her everytime she tries to demand it right away that she agreed to having a sleepover next saturday or whenever. Then just stick to it. Ignore the rants and the tantrums and the bad behaviour and the persistant phonecalls - that can also be a sign of anxiety. Speak to your health professional about it - try and get some talking therapy for her etc. Young people don't always know how to express themselves in a way that gets them heard. Also find out more about her friends - peer pressure can also be a factor. Hope things get better.

To add to my previous point, I noted that she goes out everyday and then before coming home asks to sleepover. What you can do is speak to the parents of the friends that she wants to sleep over at and make it clear that she is not allowed to sleep over at their house because of her behaviour. Also let her know the consequences of her behaviour ie she will be grounded for a day or whatever. I can understand your frustration with "contracts" because in my experience when you have a stubborn child they just dont work! You have to have nerves of steel and remain cool under pressure (easier said then done) . Her strategy is to wear you down - to get her own way by any means necessary. But You are the adult and she is the child, so stand your ground but give incentives that she can look forward to. Hope this helps

I too was going to suggest speaking to the parents and stating she is not allowed to sleep over.

In fact, could you say to your DSD that once a sleep over is arranged, day for the weekend, if she continually asks for another sleepover that week, the weekend one will be cancelled.

I have boys, but I think it's quite common for girls of that age to sleepover at each others houses contantly. Does she ever have people over to sleep over at yours?

I'm generally not one to reward poor behaviour, but actually it might be a good idea to just let her stay over sometimes as at least it gives you all a break!

It is the holidays and honestly things are not going to run to a routine and when things are arranged at the last minute and her friends are all allowed to saty over, she will feel that she is missing out, and she is.

I'd maybe try allowing her the ad-hoc sleepovers (as long as it's okay with the peoples parents) and suggest that she brings her friends over and have a sleepover at either set of parents some time (so you can see what happens and it may reassure you).

I think you just have to deal with that and the rudeness seperately.

Keeping her away from her friends (as long as the friends are not an issue) is going to just breed resentment, and casue more issues than it resolves. It's all about the social life for some teenagers.

Sorry about all the typos, I am honestly a competent human being :)

Thank you for the replies, her cousin has autism so perhaps it's something we should look into?

She has friends at ours for tea and sleepovers, and at her mums. She is reminded when she calls up that we've arranged for x to stay on whichever day is arranged but it's not good enough she wants this night AND the arranged night and oh by the way can I invite 3 others.

She doesn't understand no, she knows the rules she chooses to ignore it. Last night dh said no to her going out due to some really awful behaviour the night before, she arranged to go out anyway with her friends and was very put out when dh stopped her.

She will be on her phone Morning til night and because of this we have all decided that wifi restrictions are best put into place so on a school night wifi goes off at 9.30pm an hour before her bed and during holidays we're flexible.

Dh has seen her phone and most of the messages back and forth are arguments with other girls she said/he said who's stealing who's boyfriend etc she has admitted she likes to argue. It might be teenage behaviour but being like this constantly is unhealthy.

Her language towards her peers is shocking, I'm realising just how much things have changed I wouldn't have dared use the sort of language she does. Small blessing is that she doesn't use it around us.

Dh told dsd that she can go out with her friends today but wants her home by 6pm ( I realise this is early but we are trying to get her to show some responsibility) she's still in bed because she was on the internet all night. So she'll get up realise she doesn't have complete freedom and go nuts at being asked to come home at 6pm.

What we wanted is for her to learn to self regulate, so she knows she has all day with her friends it's her choice to get up at 1pm take an hour to get ready and then only have 4hrs with her friends.

She could've got up at 10am when dh went in but she told him to go away.

Where are we going wrong?

Its natural, expected and healthy that teenagers push the boundaries. personally I think you are giving her too much to push against.

Obviously I'm not in your position, but ime you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I'd be a bit more chilled and a bit less rigid personally. Their brains and sleep patterns change, they dont think through the consequences, they aren't always logical, their friends and social life are THE most important thing. I think in some ways you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. Other than you wanting control, what is actually the issue if she wants to sleep over at friends every nite of the week? It'd give you peace!

Obviously term time needs more control, but were none of you ever 14 and wanting freedom for your summer hols?

This raising teenagers lark isn't easy :)

I say this as a parent who was very strict when mine were younger. I have 17 and 16 year olds now and I've learned to give them more freedom and be less controlling and trust them more over the last few years - they haven't let me down - yet!

You aren't doing anything wrong.

To be fair I do think this is typical teenage behaviour, for some children- arguing, pushing boundaries etc.

She did do as she was told last night didn't she? She stayed in, despite wanting to go out, so that is good. If she chooses to moan about it for hours on end to her mum and friends, that is her problem.

I don't quite understand why she has to be in at 6 tonight though?

No ifyou she was told she wasn't going out but made arrangements anyway regardless then had a fit when dh reminded her that actually he had said no.

She has plenty of freedom usually she doesn't have to be home until 8.30-9pm but it's still not good enough, whatever freedom she is given she abuses it over and over it's not occasionally it's every single time without fail and we are all so fed up.

We don't want her sleeping out at different people's homes night after night, we would love to spend some time with her. Completely understand that her social life is the only important thing to her however she needs to understand that until she's more responsible and can be trusted she will be a little more restricted.

As sad as it is, she really doesn't want to spend time with the grown ups in her life at the moment. It's really nothing personal.

Maybe if she came back within a reasobale time of her deadline - say before 8.45 but not 8.30 then her "reward" is to get a bit added on to the curfew the next time?

I do appreciate that it's hard, and you aren't being rigid all the time, but I think whenever a decsion is made then the logic of that decision needs to be thought through so that it isn't just about control which rightly or wrongly is how she will be seeing it.

Also, if she is staying at friends regularly, the friends parents will soon get sick of it and stop the sleepovers, meaning that they get to be the bad guys instead of you and you can offer tea and sympathy... :o

I'm really not getting at your parenting methos and I hope it doesn't come across like that. Obviously people on here can only get a snippet of the situation, we don't the people involved personally either and haven't been ground down by it all and don't need to deal with the consequenses either.

Good luck and I hope you resolve something as it must be wearing being at loggerheads all the time. That's really why I am suggesting taking the pressure off, it's not just for her benefit, it's for yours too.

Thank you wax, I feel out of my depth to be honest as she's not my daughter and so I quite rightly don't have the input that dh and her mum do.

I'll talk to dh later and I'll show him this thread and the suggestions :)

Yes, I appreciate that it will be awkward for you and that must make things difficult when you have two sets of people to come to an agreement. It probably makes it easier if there are strict parameters as it makes it easier for your DH and SDDs mum to make quick decisions that they know will be acceptable to the other parent.

Where things are free-er it must make ad hoc decisions harder or take more time than SDD wants them to.

Sometimes being a parent makes you feel like a puppet master - trying to out-think what the resulting behaviour might be of any decsion you make. As I say, I'd maybe just have a think about whether you have a justifying reason for saying "No" or whether it's just about control. It might make no change to your decision at the end of the day but at least you'll know the reasons and be honest with yourselves.

I'm lucky in that generally I don't get asked any unreasonable requests - whether the DC are filtering them before they get to me I'll never know! My teens aren't that social though and Ds2 was the only one who pushed the boundaries but settled down when he was about 13 and is now the most laid back individual going. DS1 is either overly compliant or very very sneaky... :o

You have my sympathies op, I was where you are 10 years ago, my dd was a fucking nightmare teen, plus I was on my own. In the end I let her sleep out at her friends just for some peace. All I can say is once she got to 18/19 it was like she had a personality transplant and is now a lovely, functional adult. Hold in there, it will get better

Are they hard work if you allow sleepovers at your house?

I nearly see or hear from my DD when she had friends sleeping over. I would switch Wi-Fi off at 11pm, but that would be my only control. If mine wanted a friend over 7 days a week, it really wouldn't affect the rest of our family very much at all, so I see no problem.

Just to agree with wax at DSD's age I would relax a bit. If the friend's parents don't mind why not let her stay over impromptu or not

My DD was exactly the same , it was hell 😬. It was the relentlessness that wore me out of say no and stick to it as always but she would go on and on and on hundreds of texts , hundreds of missed calls, messages were very abusive. She also took to emotional blackmail and lies, it was the worst stage of parenthood. She also got more devious so I'd have parents numbers, speak to them about DD sleeping over then eventually find out if been speaking to older sounding friend she and she'd come home at 4-5am with some lie or another. During year 11 she settled down a bit and now at 16 he is so much easier and polite again. Hang on in there.

Have you seen all the threads about how much time teenagers send in theor rooms or with their friends? It is very illuminating

She wont want t spend time with you or her Dad, and as wax says, it is entirely normal. During the holidays, my DDs at 14, spent about half the week sleeping over at friends houses. I would allow your DSD to do it a bit more IF she behaves during the day and sticks to say 2 or 3 sleepovers a week.

Thank you, feel much better from having your perspectives. Time to let go a bit I guess, I know she's not 'mine' but she's my little girl! I guess it's time to let her grow up and relax a bit.

Will be far less uptight!

Aww OP it's just a stage they go through. Mine are very easy going but spend a lot of time in their room. We get on well with them but other than when there is the promise of a free meal, it's difficult to get them to go anywhere with you.

DS2 is keen to learn the guitar. DH plays (self taught). DH and DS2 get on perfectly well. DS2 would rather struggle on his own than spend time with DH showing him anything. It's sad and frustrating but there is no point arguing about it. He knows DH is there and willing, he just needs to allow himself to ask (DH offers every so often). It's just life with a teenager no matter how polite or rebellious they are.

Obviously not all teenagers are the same, but there are a lot of common traits.

As a parent of an autistic 10 year old - please look into autism. It presents very different in girls and what you have said ticks a lot of boxes. Also research PDA. I really hope you find a way to get through to her :)

One thing I noticed, in 35 years of teaching teenagers - including ten as a houseparent, is that girls in particular do a lot of growing up between 13 and 14. And apparently, it's a survival characteristic. Humans are essentially a tribal society, and it wasn't so very long ago - in evolutionary terms - when we actually lived in tribal groups. At 14, girls could expect to move away from their "home" tribe, perhaps through an arranged marriage, or even as a result of abduction. In their new group they had of necessity to act like adults, because they no longer had parents to look out for them.

Today's teenage girls can indeed show a greater level of intrinsic maturity than many people give them credit for. One reason for the lack of credibility is that they also exhibit temper tantrums - indeed, some people liken teens to toddlers. Yet these tantrums are not teenage-specific, adults often feel the same way when they are frustrated - particularly when their decisions are criticised or even overuled, by, for example, their employer. The difference is that adults are better at hiding their emotions than teenagers are, and furthermore, teenagers are less inhibited because they have less to lose, unlike adults whose job may be at risk. Teenagers can freely argue with and wind up their parents because they know that, at the end of the day, their parents have a responsibility to provide for them. There is also some biological evidence to suggest that teenagers are more likely to make poor decisions on the spur of the moment, rather than when they have time to think calmly.

If a teenager asks for permission to do something and is always told no, she will learn not to ask but to do it anyway. She is trying to make her own decisions and, she could do with the practise, because that's the only way she will get better at it. Many decisions made by teenagers are sub-optimal but the role of parents is to use their greater experience to anticipate negative outcomes and be ready with tea and sympathy.

Wax makes some very good points regarding whether your reasons for saying "no" are really valid.

This link is to an interesting - albeit long - article about the biology of the adolescent brain.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2475802/

There is also an interesting TV documentary called "Wait until your teacher gets home" which is available on YouTube (although for some reason it's been cut into a number of bits).

The "No" thing for me goes back to younger child raising but is equally valid for teens. Basically when asked for permission to do something, you either say Yes or No, but if you say No, never change your mind after being badgered. That's where you get into the situation where they know if they keep on about it long enough you'll eventually give in. If you honestly think you'll cave, then say yes at the beginning.

The adaptation for teenagers I would suggest is that it IS ok to change from no to yes, but only if there has been further compelling information. Then explain that you have decided to change your mind because of X & Y - not because they kept going on and on.

My DD 15 went through a phase of this type of thing when she was 13 and 14. Keep standing your ground, never give in to the badgering and it does pass.

I would say try to loosen up a bit. The summer holidays are all about spending time with your peers when you are 14yrs old, surely? Most would take this above spending time with their folks I would think.

Try not to say no for the sake of it. It will just backfire (like you are finding it would seem)

I bet if you start giving her a bit more freedom, she will start respecting that and begin to behave more responsibly.

Good luck

The thing is we don't say no for the sake of it! She gets lots of freedom she has plenty of time with her friends the issue is that once she's out come curfew she calls up with requests to stay out much later, sleepover etc. She isn't always told no however on the occasions she is told no she won't accept the answer.

She is very privileged, her gp give her excessive amounts of money which of course she then spends on things like 6 pairs of expensive trainers, take always, expensive make up the list goes on.

Her gp see nothing wrong with what their doing even though they have been asked to put it into a savings account instead. She has since had her card taken and an allowance given which again causes a war.

Today I come home and find her used sanitary pad left lying in the bathroom, I then had to dispose of it as she went back to her dm this morning after 10 days with us. There is a list of 'issues' I know I need to loosen up but there are some things that go beyond the pale. We are all fed up of being treated as if we were staff members in the unpaid club!