Help with my unruly teenager urgently required

[Nailedon]

Hi all,

I'm sorry it's so long but I'm desperate so if you can please read!

I'm having problems with my 13 (soon to be 14) year old son. Since leaving primary school he has been getting gradually worse. In primary he was brilliant, doing extremely well academically, socially, all round a great kid. Never once got called into school for him.

Starts high school in 2015, instantly super popular with the boys and girls. Had his first fight and knocked the boy out...literally knocked him out. The poor boy had to go to hospital. Well my sons popularity grew and grew. He was the 'hardest kid' in year 7.

At the start of year 8 we moved him schools and it just got worse from there...fighting, arguing, then came shoplifting. Each time we grounded him took away his privileges (phone, Xbox,tv, internet) it worked for a while.

He ended up getting excluded (permanently) from school. And ended up in a 'naughty school' for want of a better word! The school is a joke. It's run from an old community centre, a few of the teachers look old enough to be my daughters! They do half an hour of maths and half an hour of English on a morning and then go on trips all day everyday and they return to school at 1:30 write 3 lines about what they have done and finish at 1:45! I don't agree with treating children who don't/won't behave! Is that wrong? (Children who can't is different) my younger son has Aspergers amongst other things and his behaviour is challenging but I can cope with that.

Since then my lovely, quiet, studious little boy has turned into a monster. The kids he goes to school with are troubled (most of them) they smoke (cigs and weed), shoplift, rob each other etc. You get the picture.

Anyway my son has been grounded since he got excluded from school. On the 4 occasions he has been allowed out he has been caught smoking weed (once) shoplifting (once) fighting and smoking cigs. We got him a weekend job to keep him off the streets, give him jobs at home etc. Before he went to that school he had never sworn at a teacher I mean he would give me lip as teenagers do and he was lazy as sin but never disrespectful to other adults. Now he is always swearing at teachers,throwing things, tantruming at them. He got robbed at knife point the other week by his "friend".

According to my son it's now my fault (it's never his fault) but now it's mine for grounding him. I should let him live his life. I agree to a point and I want to but every time I trust him he does something utterly ridiculous and I'm so worried he is going to end up either an addict, in jail or dead. I am over protective I admit. I lost my brother 11 years ago. Which obviously impacts my parenting.

Please if anyone has any advice it would be greatly appreciated xx

Does he have an EHCP? If he doesn't start the process as a matter of urgency. If he does ask for a review, get advice from SOSSEN and start fighting to get him an ASD specialist education. Look at schools within the Cambian and Hesley group and seriously consider pushing for a residential placement so as your child can benefit from a 24hr curriculum.

Hi, what's a EHCP? I'm not sure if you possibly read my post wrong or I've worded it wrong? it's my younger son (11) that has aspergers, the one I'm talking about here (13) has no issues x

You know what I don't think being in a school with other naughty kids is going to help his behaviour- can't you take him out. He's so young to be labelled as a bad kid.

Hi, we had a meeting with the naughty school on Wednesday. I raised your point about the school not helping. They admitted that since being there he has got worse however they will not let him go to a proper school until his behaviour improves. They basically told me there isn't anything to be done. I just don't know what to do anymore.

Feel your pain, Going through similar.

We have referred our DS to CAMHS and are now going to be getting support for him (after being refused help in Feb), as we feel there is underlying mental health issues. He has ADHD but cannot cope with pressure-and any situation that does not go his way results in aggression and violence. Also total refusal to accept responsibility for his actions-always someone else's fault

have had to call police 4 times after him attacking us and threatening our DD-and he spent Monday night in a police cell as we refused to have him at home.

He has support from local charity for drug use and DH and I now get support from a charity who help parents in our position-discuss strategies different approaches etc. So might be worth seeing if anyone local to you who might be able to help YOU too. Is your DH supportive and involved too? My DH and I are exhausted, but 100% back each other in any scenario with him, which is really valuable

Hi, iluvthe80s, I'm so sorry you are going through this. It's heartbreaking isn't it? My younger son has all sorts going on and we are under Cahms. It's difficult to deal with hopefully cahms will make a huge difference and thankfully you are able to get some support.

My older son (13) has just gone from being amazing to absurd overnight (that's how it feels anyway!) he makes stupid choices and he's such a bright lad. It's frustrating, upsetting, tiring and more.

I will have a look for some support, thank you. It's hard knowing where to look. Do I go to my gp, child services, local council? School are useless. Yes my DH is hugely supportive both to me and our children.

As a mother I suppose I just feel like I should be able to handle everything like the weight of the world is on my shoulders. I have my own mental and physical health problems. I can't help but wonder if maybe my son has some mental health issues beginning to pop up. I'm just so lost.

Thank you for your helpful post and good luck xx

Sorry muddled the two boys. You still need to start the EHCP process as a matter of urgency. Contact SOSSEN for help and support with this as this is the key to getting your son a school placement that meets his needs. If he isn't accessing a mainstream placement then he has additional needs and these need assessing and he needs a placement in a school that can support him.
I'd also be asking the GP to a specialist ASD diagnostic service as well purely because he has a sibling with Aspergers and it is very common for boys with an undiagnosed ASD who have thrived in Primary to suddenly start exhibiting challenging behaviours once in secondary when they are faced with a different environment, lots of changes and increasingly sophisticated social interactions

Hi, thank you I'll definitely look into it. I'm not ruling anything out atm it's just so hard!! X

Are you able to home ed him? Could you enroll him in some interesting online GCSEs he can do from home part time. And get him some voluntary work experience a day a week in an area he's interested in?

Where are his interests OP?

An EHCP will mean that you will have more power to get your child the education they need. His current placement isn't working if his behaviour is deteriorating. It's not going to get better whilst he is there as they are obviously not using the strategies needed. It isn't good enough to tell you he has to stay there until he behaves better when whatever they are doing obviously isn't working and they don't seem to be taking responsibility for the deterioration in his behaviour nor coming up with any strategies to alter things and seem to have admitted defeat.
Please contact SOSSEN and IPSEA and get support to get your child out of there. LEAs aren't always open about the options because they cost money. Your child deserves a lot more than being in some sort of holding facility until they can wash their hands of him. You can alter this by making sure you are aware of your rights and the LEA's responsibilities to your child and IPSEA and SOSSEN will support you every step of the way.
My own son has autism and extreme challenging behaviour and I know it's soul destroying but you need to come out fighting for your child because it really is a case of she who shouts loudest gets the support.

fleshmarketclose

"it is very common for boys with an undiagnosed ASD who have thrived in Primary to suddenly start exhibiting challenging behaviours once in secondary when they are faced with a different environment, lots of changes and increasingly sophisticated social interactions"

We are pushing for ADOS for our son who is 15. your comments resonate! x

I wondered too if this is being caused by struggles socially and the fact that misbehaving and being rebellious appear to be giving him kudos and gaining him friends, ( in his mind). Has secondary school been too much for him? Could he cope in primary but has found secondary challenging and has latched onto this type of behaviour? All armchair psychology of course. I think lots of teenagers never think anything is their fault and sometimes that mentality can cause a downward spiral in behaviour as you reach a impasse with them.

I think that the ASD in the family may be of relevance too. Classic time to come unstuck is 11+ and the transition to secondary. Often the result of this is anxiety, school refusal and depression but I'm guessing that they aren't the only reactions and maybe your ds's behaviour could be a another type.

Hopefully the long holidays will give you some breathing space. I would think about home ed in September if that's possible if a school place is not forthcoming.

iluv if you get no joy through CAMHS do push for a referral to a specialist diagnostic service. CAMHS knowledge and ability to recognise an ASD can be very variable. To find the nearest service to you contact NAS for details.
My ds was diagnosed at 2 and a half and my dd at 2 but the three memorably "naughty" children in primary with ds and dd were diagnosed as teens as having an ASD. All of them had had repeated exclusions and a couple were out of school for long periods before diagnosis and two of them that I still know of have spent time in youth offenders institutions It's really important that if it is an ASD they receive the proper support as soon as possible as generally placements for young people with behavioural disorders are not the best place for a young person with an ASD.

Hi. Sorry to hear the worry you are going through. My son(now 17) started to become very argumentative when he was 12/13 at secondary school and eventually was permenantly excluded. It's heartbreaking when they get deeper and deeper into trouble. My son ended up at a PRU and lost years of education. Mainstream secondary schools are not always inclusive of children with ADHD or ASD needs. This is mostly what went wrong for my son. I'm writing to try and give you hope. It has been an awful few years, but we are out the other end as you will be, if you keep being there for him as you are. Being emotionally strong and sturdy even if inside you are in torment. In the end, we home educated him. He hardly did any work but they only need 5 IGCSEs to get on a level 3 / A level courses not the ridiculous 8-13 GCSEs they have to sit at schools. The main thing is his mental health and well being ( as is yours). If he takes qualifications a little later than his peers, so be it. People often say try and do nothing, and they'll figure out the right path, but when they are only 13 I think they still need rules as long as they are meaningful and realistic. Definitely best to pick the important arguments also. Another thing I found which surprised me was that him going in the Xbox was a release for him. He was able to chat to people, no pressure to act a certain way, he could be himself. My son has just completed his 1st year on a level 3 BTEC Performing Arts course and it's a miracle after missing so many years of school. You will come out the other side. Xxx

I would strongly recommend buying the e-book Mercurys Child. It sounds like you're having a really hard time of it. Remember that although they crave power and control they really can't handle it.

Does your DS have any hopes or dreams for the future? When my DS started playing up, (awful but not as serious as this) we knew what he hoped to do as an adult and arranged for him to talk to people who did that career.

They had been primed to be honest but to also stress the need for decent education and exam results etc. We also used the time he was grounded to help him research his dreams, talked to him about what kind of income it would give him, how that would effect the kind of home he could buy etc.

It really helped and he turned himself around. He's now 18 and actually living his dream.

Thank you for your replies. I'll try my best to answer each one. I apologise if I miss anything out.

Rhubarb, his interests are girls, clothes and shoes atm. He has recently started boxing so I'm hoping he keeps up with that. Before all of this he was into swimming and football but they went out the window. Home education isn't really an option at the moment and I'm not sure how much help I could be he's much cleverer than I ever was.

Waitingforsherlock - I will definitely check out the asd angle I didn't realise the facts you gave me.

Mh- I'm sorry for your struggles. It's great to hear that you and your son have come through the other side and he is doing well. Thank you for the message of hope.

Cauliflower- I'm going to look for the book you mentioned tonight. Thank you.

We have had another heart to heart this evening. We have made a realistic list of things he can stick to and things we can do and we have put realistic goals in place. I mentioned counselling of some sort to him and he agreed to give it a go and surprisingly positive about it. We are sat together watching a film now xx

Love the fact you are watching a film together at the moment. ❤️PS Also great that he is open minded to try counselling. My son really benefitted from this.

Hi angelic sorry I must have posted slightly after you and missed your response. I'm glad your son is loving his dream, nice to know it's possible. He would love to design his own clothing line, he's very artistic. My cousin has a great job with Diesel (clothing in case ppl don't know the brand lol) so I might see if she can pull some strings and see what can be done, although I don't speak to her much nowadays but hear from her younger sister every once in a while. I'm going to look for some art/design classes there must be something around! Thank you for the idea!

Mh, thank you. It's lovely just watching films together. It's only now his phone has been removed that he can find time to spend with his parents lol. He's a different child without that blooming thing! Xx

Home Ed doesn't have to mean you doing all the teaching with books now. There are some great on line interactive platforms which are virtual classrooms but without the disruptive behavior. Have a look at InterHigh as an example. Not cheap, but I believe you can get funding as it is recognised by LEA.
You also have to look after your own MH - easier said than done ( I know).

Hi OP my DD was exactly the same , exactly it's creepily similar! She was angelic at primary however always struggled academically, after 3 months at secondary she was in isolation daily , then various exclusions before being permanently excluded. DD does have ADHD and a specific LD. What area are you in roughly? DD ended up at a fantastic school it is a "naughty kids" school but they were amazing. They boosted her confidence, got her rengaged with education tailored to her and treated her incredibly well. She pushed against it initially but eventually their respect towards her (even in the face of abuse!) made her re-evaluate and her behaviour at home , school and the community changed completely. How long has he been there?

DD is almost unrecognisable now but sadly has to leave now she's 16 😔 I'm dreading the move back to mainstream college.

Glad to hear your 16 year old came through the system Katie and that teachers gave her hope and respect. If she decides to go to college remember the atmosphere is so much more laid back and that the students are treated more like adults. No uniforms and unnecessary rules also. I do recommend you get in touch with the pastoral care tutors and let them know she hasn't had an easy path. They supported him with any emotional needs he had and have been an amazing support for my son in his first year at college. Hope everything goes well for Nailedon. Sending positive vibes your way x

Thanks mogger we are actually in the process of EHC plan (wish I'd done years ago!). Her current school are supporting her for her first year at college and will be in to see her weekly and work with the staff there. Although she's come a long way I'm just anxious the colleges 3 strikes and your out won't work for DD. She is still prone to meltdowns and throwing a few tears, stamping feet and fuck offs when she's struggling or under pressure.