DS (15) has just broke down in tears. Please help

[TheEmperorIsNaked]

He went on a field trip last week. He'd told me he was dreading it because he'd have no-one to sit with on the coach because none of his mates were going. I did ask him how it went when he came home and he just grunted about it being boring. Tonight he told me that he spent to entire day alone. For lunch he found a wall to sit behind, plugged in his music and ate alone. Some kids noticed him and took the piss and threw biscuits at him so he was swamped with seagulls. He was really hurt. I'm really worried about him and I'm angry about it and also hurting for him.

Then he told me that in English they have to do group work. His group is just him. The only time he is in an actual group is when another child is off sick.

Last week he cried at school twice. Once in English when he thinks nobody noticed and another time in break where he was sobbing uncontrollably. A teacher noticed him and sent him to Student Services, but he left because he didn't want to speak about what had upset him.

After a lot of coaxing he has agreed to me calling the school and asking for help. He thinks it makes him weak and will lead to everyone targeting him as one of those kids that can't cope with anything. I've also suggested seeing our doctor. I've suffered from depression all my adult life and I think at least some part of this could be down to him also being depressed and needing some medical help.

His dad has been useless. He took the first opportunity to announce how tired he is and that he's going to bed. They are both asleep now but of course I can't sleep because all I want to do is find out how to help him and cry.

What is hurting me the most is that DS is so hard on himself. He really believes that he is defective and crap for not coping very well with life. This is why male suicide rates are so high. That terrifies me. I would do anything to help him.

Does anyone have any experience to share or advice, kind words, anything ...

I did home educate him for 3 years between the ages of 7 and 10. He was having a few big problems at school

I did get the impression there was more to it but I felt it was up to you to either elaborate on it or not. I did home ed with one of mine but he does have significant learning difficulties.

Im sorry if this doesn't come across well but there is just something about the way you've described your son that has had me thinking from the outset - this lad would probably benefit from seeing someone with a view to having additional needs ruled in or out once and for all.

DEfinately speak to school about this, my DS school are really strict on bulling they will keep an eye on him and also give him some mental support, mine sees an ex CAMHS lady every week (internal to school) he has temper problems at home and school, she's done good work with him. I agree to to get him to go to some clubs away from school, what's his hobbies etc.
Poor thing breaks my heart. Kids can be cruel

Just want to add a voice in support of the suggestion that ds might try a martial arts club outside school - it is an absolute cliche but it really does seem to boost self esteem, and exercise is good for the mood. Or a cycling or running club outside school, where they cater for all abilities?

I know you've mentioned ds won't try such things, but what if your dh suggested they both take up a martial art together (ime clubs aren't necessarily age divided between teens and adults, so they would both be together as beginners)?

And could your dh and ds go off to the cinema, bowling, concerts together when his friends are busy at weekends? Sometimes just getting out of the house is good for the mood.
And I would say yes definitely talk to the school - a good school should have things in place for this type of problem - maybe a change of class would help?

You know, school isn't always a good fit for all children. I suspect with the best will in the world, school solutions aren't going to impress. Sometimes they can't help being toxic environments. Nature of the beastie and all that.

Why don't you ask him if he'd like to learn from home again? He's of an age where he's going to be moving towards more independence and home-education can facilitate that beautifully! He can choose his subjects, join groups and clubs that match his own interests. If you honestly don't feel able to teach some subjects (unlikely in practice), then there are other solutions such as online, tutors etc.,

Heres some info'

he-exams.wikia.com/wiki/HE_Exams_Wiki

Best wishes to your son. I can see there's been a lot of great advice so I'm not sure I can add anything helpful but just wanted to say you are a lovely, caring mum and with your support your son will get through this time. I hope he knows there's nothing shameful whatsoever about crying and he shouldn't feel he has to hide it if he feels he needs to. He has done absolutely nothing wrong and I hope he'll be thriving again soon.

I was going to post last night, but ran out of time. Really thrilled you have had so many message of support and advice.

While your DS is clearly going through a tough phase, I think its wonderful that you have the kind of relationship where he can be open with you about his fears. You are doing a great job Mum!

You've had loads of suggestions already, but I also think getting him involved in clubs or interests out of school is key. It will give him something else to focus on, but also reinforces, that school is one, very short part of his life-and there is so much more waiting out there for him.

Also, focusing on what you and he CAN influence is key. Otherwise you are wasting your energy and this will only lead to further upset and frustration for you both. You cannot change how others treat your lovely boy, but you can influence

1/ How you approach the school-and what you ask and expect of them. why was no one keeping an eye on him on that trip?
2/Whether you move schools or home school
3/ what additional support you request for your son-whether this is GP, other areas etc.
4/ What your son wants to happen? He's 15 now, so nearing becoming a young man, so involving him in any decisions will be a positive step (you are clearly a lovely Mum so feel this is a given)

Keep your chin up. You are doing a great job. He's a lucky boy to have you

When you speak to the school, ask if they can put you in touch with your local youth emotional support team (assuming you have one - ours is part of the local council).

My DD (now nearly 13) benefited hugely from their supports workers and counselling service last year when her dad and I split up, and she still occasionally attends drop in sessions if something is bothering her.

I think the fact the people there aren't in a position of 'authority' as such can make it much easier for teens to open up. Also my DD saw a guy in his late 20''s - I guess your DS might find speaking to a man easier and more helpful?

I really feel for you. I've also suffered with anxiety and depression for most of my adult life and one of my greatest fears is DD having the same experience .

I believe there are online high schools, so they could fill some of the gaps for subject that you are unfamiliar with, if you decide to go down the HE route.
Hope your son has had a quiet day without pressure, and feels better for it.

Recommend something outside school eg first aid course like St Johns Ambulance or Red Cross
and
Duke of Edinburghs Award (includes volunteering)
Or similar schemes

Both great for confidence building and meeting new people

My friend gave me a tip - Try something and if you dont like it move onto something else

Yesterday was quite a positive day in the end.

The school phoned twice. First call was from a member of the pastoral care team and then DS's Form Teacher, who I've always liked and thought to be really fair and decent. I went through everything with both of them and I'm now waiting to hear from DS's Head of Year. I told them that DS definitely won't be in before Monday so some work has been arranged for him to do in the meantime.

FT said she hadn't noticed anything untoward regarding DS but that she only has him during form time and for maths. In maths he's with 2 of his best mates and he seems happy, but none of the 'cool kids' are in that lesson because it's full of brainiacs . She's going to see if he can be moved to a different English group and she's also said that for a transitional period he can just opt out of a lesson he can't cope with and do the work in her class instead.

DS didn't really want to talk about school yesterday, but he was in good spirits. I said that I wouldn't push it but we would have to talk properly at the weekend, but that I want him to know he's in charge of this and I'm just there to facilitate what he wants. He can choose to go back to school, change school, stay home and do IGCSE's, and that part-time college might even be an option. If he chooses to return to this school, it's not a decision set in stone. He can change his mind.

Then I finally went to bed and got some sleep.

Ledkr Thank you. I can't find any info about college for 14 -16 year old's on my local council site. If DS does want to look into this would you mind me contacting you by PM?

Zuzu sorry, I get what you mean now. I will show the site to DS as it looks really good.

Rhubarb I really didn't realise I had done that, but nevertheless you are right. There was a dx of ASD when DS was 3. He'd been referred to a Paed. because his speech was delayed and muddled. The Paed. dxd him on the 2nd appt. with her. Within a few months DS was talking properly and nobody could understand why on earth he'd been dxd. This played a part in me removing him from school.

When he returned his new school arranged for him to have an ASD assessment and he scored ZERO. But honestly, I think there is something going on. Possibly dyspraxia? This is something I have always kept to myself because I've totally lost faith in him getting the right help. The period after his dx was horrible. I was made to feel like I had made the dx up or fabricated evidence. Everyone was adamant he was fine but the dx couldn't be removed, perhaps out of loyalty to the Paed. who dxd him. No idea!

Spring brilliant link, thank you. I thought IGCSEs would be mega expensive. They would be a great idea for English if DS decides not to return to school.

Pandora I've never heard of that. Thank you for bringing it up. I will ask HoY when he calls. It sounds really good.

Everyone else, thanks as well. There's some really good suggestions here. Love the idea of St John's Ambulance and I know DS would like that. I've also spoke to DP about doing more with DS. He's come up with ideas like go-karting, cinema, football matches (spectator) and he's going to see if there are any gaming conferences or something like that.

I will update when I hear from HoY.

No expert on any if this but as the wife of someone who was catastrophically bullied from 14, I am rooting for you and your ds. I think it's hopeful that the school have responded well, hope they carry it through.

Okay from the start I thought your son could be a "well masking" child with ASD. It sounds like you got the right diagnosis at 3 and then have been fobbed off since.
I would go to your GP as a start.
Do not worry about anything on his medical record affecting his life chances. The only thing really you can't do (at present) with a diagnosis of ASD is join the armed forces - and at present that would be the wrong career for him anyway.
Young Minds can help - and help with ASD too.
There are lots of help in the SN chat area here if you start a thread. The HE area can help too, and there is a great online yahoo group for HE for exams ( you may be able to get the contact details via the HE group or PM me and I'll try to find them).

Your son's school is failing him. My DD would be noticed if she isn't included and has made sure she has a group if needed (even when she didn't really know anyone in her class) although she often prefers to work alone as the others are "annoying".

I really didn't realise I had done that, but nevertheless you are right

OP, I only sensed you were holding back Ive lived in the world of additional needs for 26 years and you can develop a feel for things.

I wondered if your son was on the spectrum from the outset but decided not to ask. I don't know what to say about his Dx that then became the wrong diagnosis but I think I would be pushing to have him re-assesed but someone who has an interest in those cases of ASD that are difficult to diagnose. Who did the re-assessing?

Could he be Dyspraxic? Ive no idea even though I do have a granddaughter who's Dyspraxic, however when she was younger she did have some problems with anxiety that are now long since gone. She also has sensory issues, now greatly improved with age, and that can also make the world a scary place and cause anxieties.

Honestly, regardless of the ASD re-assesment I would be pushing to have someone see your son again because instinct plus living very much in the world of additional needs that are all ASD and co-morbid related is telling me there is something going on with your lad.

Im really sorry that your son, and the family, are going through this. You're obviously a wonderful mum.

Okay from the start I thought your son could be a "well masking" child with ASD.

Yes.

OP have you looked in things like Cadets, army or air for example. Air cadets have been amazing for a friend son of a similar age. He was having awful confidence issues and anxiety but being part of a close knit organisation with the opportunity to do loads of things outside school has been fantastic and he has gained a lot of maturity and useful skills in the last year.

MummyTime no, I'm not worried about the effect his medical record might have on his future. What worries me is that DS doesn't know about it. When it was relevant he was too young and then it became irrelevant and we stopped even thinking about it. I still don't think it was the right dx though.

Rhubarb you have penetrating powers of perception .

I think he was reassessed through CAHMS. It came about when I applied for a Y6 place at his last primary school. The HT outright asked me if I had removed him from his previous primary due to behavioural problems. I was shocked because DS wouldn't dream of misbehaving at school and it had never occurred to me that someone would think that. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't offended at the question. It explained why my first choice of school all but refused to consider the question of him starting with them. Anyway, I went into all his history with her and she set up the assessment.

All I remember about the assessment was a guy who reminded me of Mr Tumble who took DS off into a room and got him to do some activities. I didn't receive a report from this assessment, I just learned from an informal chat with Mr Tumble that DS was emphatically not on the spectrum and he scored a grand sum of zero on whatever test he was using. I assume the school received something more comprehensive.

He settled into school well. He immediately started going to tea, parties and sleep-overs. When he moved onto high school his best friend went into private and he got close to his 3 best mates now who he wasn't as friendly with back then.

I think the most significant issue he has is physical ability. He's always struggled with his hand-writing and I've asked his school to help with this so many times now. He hates PE and although I haven't spelt this out previously, he really is very bad at all sports. He's the child that always gets picked last for team games and will come last in every race. I don't blame him for being turned off by anything physical. His dad has a disability now, but neither of us have ever been athletic, although I'd say DS struggles significantly more than we ever did.

Anyway, I'm going to wake DS up now and encourage him to do a bit of school work.

Thanks everyone.

That doesn't sound like a proper assessment at all!
Sorry, but a proper diagnosis or not for ASD involves a multi-disciplinary assessment, and more than one meeting. That "assessment" sounds like someone with an incomplete knowledge having a look - but was what was wanted as you wanted him to go to that school. I wonder if the same person would not diagnose my DD because she: has good eye contact, very good language etc.

Yes it is tricky if you have never told your son, does he know any other children with an ASD diagnosis? (My DD's MS school is full of them.)

But Dyspraxia might be a better diagnosis (although there is a feeling in some professionals that they are all part of the same spectrum).

With PE, is it all physical activity or mainly team games? Are there any alternative sports he can do? My DD is choosing activities like Yoga, Dance and Cheerleading next year. Would your son be interested in using a gym? What about swimming?

Sometimes children with dyspraxia can have a problem judging personal space - this can lead to some difficulties with others. Of course children with ASD can misread social cues so both see others as being aggressive when they didn't intend to be and think others are being friendly when they are not - it's probably even harder when you don't understand that "other people" don't think the same way as you.
Do you think your son could be underperforming academically? He's in top set for Maths - does he have more issues with English? Is it physically writing or comprehension because of the social aspects?

I would ask for a proper assessment - and ask the school for assessments for extra time/use of a computer in exams.

Armchair diagnosis here but the more you say, the more it sounds like dyspraxia. A friend of mine was diagnosed in his very late teens - I met him in his early 20's. He can be socially quite awkward, is 'clumsy' and has problems with handwriting (he's left-handed and didn't get as much early support as he ought to have done). He has struggled academically in the past because although he is very intelligent he finds it difficult to convey concepts in the written word, and also finds it difficult to structure essays and so forth.

I helped him with some academic support whilst he was working on his dissertation (he had been predicted to fail and just receive a diploma, but managed to scrape a pass), he's since taken up yoga which seems to have helped, and has recently publicly 'come out'. All of these things seem to have helped his confidence although he is still someone who is on the fringes of 'social awkwardness'.

Hopefully for your DS a break from the stressful environment and a chance to focus on some more hobby-type activities will help. Good that the school are offering some solutions.

Mummytime you could be right about the 'assessment'. Then again, he didn't have a multi-disciplinary assessment when he was 3 either. I vaguely remember an MD meeting but by then he had started talking and it didn't lead to anything.

There's plenty of kids at his school that are on the spectrum and there are some in our extended family too. Some of them I guessed before I was told, others really shocked me when I found out.

I think he does a mix of team games, athletics and combat sports at school. He doesn't like any of them but doesn't say much about it. He's had a lot of swimming lessons but never managed more than a few strokes unaided. I wanted us both to have lessons a few years ago (I can swim but I'm poor at it) but he wouldn't have it. He can ride a bike well although I insist on a helmet and apparently that's not cool so that limits where I let him ride. He tried a karate club once but felt embarrassed because he couldn't do press-ups so didn't go again.

What you say about misreading other peoples intentions fits him very well. He's not socially blind, he gets jokes, responds appropriately and is polite, but I've had to intervene in friendships before when he's been taken advantage of because he just can't see it.

I would say that he does under-perform at school because he lacks concentration and is chronically disorganised. He's great at maths but can be very lazy with it. Sometimes he'll show me finished homework that has blank sections. His excuse is that they haven't covered that in class so he doesn't have to do it. From my POV it either has been covered and he wasn't paying attention or his teacher is trying to challenge him. He won't even attempt it though and it worries me that he'll be shifted down to foundation level as I know he'd be gutted to have to move class. He's average at English and probably below average at everything else except German and PE in which he is not very good at all at.

WRT writing it's mainly speed of writing and legibility of what he produces. He's also very messy and doesn't organise his page very well. The content isn't particularly elegant or sophisticated but I think it makes sense. I'll have a look through some of his books later and check.

Mark how sad that your friend had to publicly come out rather than just casually say 'yeah, I struggle with that because I have dyspraxia'. Thanks for posting about him. I wish him loads of luck in the future.

Teenager years are tricky for swimming - my DD can swim but not as well as her siblings, but at present is too embarrassed to have more lessons (even in a private pool with just me and a teacher there).
I have known ASD children do well at Taekwondo.

But whatever sport the leaders need to be really welcoming. My DD desperately wanted to do fencing, and did well at a try out, but then at the club they made them run around the gym to warm up and made fun of the young leaders who were there to help out. My DD became so worried that they would make fun of her that she left before even starting the session properly.

I would suggest you read up more about ASD and Dyspraxia, because there are even professional comedians (quite a few actually) who would identify as ASD.
The rigid rule following seems familiar to me too.

You really do need to talk to the school and see why they haven't been offering him more help before now.

OP, A lot of how you describe your son could also apply to my granddaughter but she seems to be one of the ones who is getting a lot better the older she gets. She has a dx of sensory issues, dyslexia, dyspraxia, CAPD. I also have a son who is dyslexic and also has a dx of CAPD. My youngest child who's severely autistic plus a few other things for good measure can read fluently and there's nothing wrong with his auditory sense. Its a funny old thing this ASD and its co-morbids.

The older my granddaughter gets the more she seems to grow out of her problems and I would say the only thing she can still struggle with at times is organisation and actually getting her thoughts on paper. She's meeting almost all of her targets at school which are no different from the others in the class and I think is only working towards 1.

Socially its never been an issue and has never been queried.

Im going to go along with 'mummytime' and query the kind of procedure your son went through to get his diagnosis, and to then be told another time that he isn't on the spectrum. This will give you more of an idea

www.autism.org.uk/about/diagnosis.aspx

For Dyspraxia I would read anything by Madelaine Portwood. I know her personally and she really knows what she's talking about. And that brings to me asking if you'd consider starting your son on Equazeen IQ tablets. My youngest son has been on them since they were introduced on the market and I swear by them. My other son is now on them and so are 3 of my grandchildren. You could read up on her work in Durham if you needed more info. And just to add I didnt start to use IQ after the Durham trials - I was using it with my son years before then.

Could you perhaps try and get your son to see someone privately with a view to getting certain things ruled in or out?

Oh and this was something else we did with my granddaughter, she ended up with blue lensed glasses and they helped her a lot.

www.jordanseyes.com/page2.htm

Hi Emperor, your post made me feel so sad and angry, want to give you and your boy hugs (reaches arms across the 'net') for being put through this rubbish.

You have already had some brilliant advice on here so I've not much to add, I'll try and keep it simple, I think when you're upset and emotional everything becomes a blur, perhaps writing stuff down might help you, some sort of action plan. Anyhow just some random points I hope help with this;-

1. Being there for chats and allowing him to show his emotions, you sound brilliant, keep it up!
2. Giving constant reminders that he is a great boy and there is absolutely nothing wrong with him and everything wrong with the bullies, they are insecure in themselves. Is picking on someone for the way they are holding their bag a clever thing to do? There are probably some good books/leaflets out there on bullying and how to deal with it.
3. Again, contact with school, tell them you expect zero tolerance and there should be staff keeping an eye on your DS and any vulnerable children and also putting measures in place to allow more inclusion for him. A member of staff he likes and trusts needs to have a good chat with him.
4. Help from GP, totally understand you don't want to go down the medication route but there are other ways of helping out there, I have heard of YoungMinds and it sounds good.
5. Gentle coaxing to try and find a hobby/interest. Joining a club would be really beneficial. I didn't say at the top of my post but I have a DD who has been through/ is going through similar issues, joining a martial arts club has really helped her confidence.
6. Have as many fun times at home as possible, watch films, comedies, play a game etc

Would it also help next time you chat to him about this that you read mumsnet and other mums tell you that they have children who are going through this sort of thing? Would it reassure him that he is not on his own and there are ways of helping?

Sorry if I've blabbed on a bit, more hugs, love and best wishes for you both.

There are some wonderful advice on here. I am sending kind thoughts to you both.

Just wanted to add that Kidscape runs workshops around the country for children aged 9-16 who are being bullied.
www.kidscape.org.uk/

Omg just read this and I could have written it. My ds too has just come home in floods of tears. Not for the first time. He's being screened for autism (eventually) and has struggled massively since starting seniors. He only seems to have a couple of mates and is an "outsider". I'm engaging with the school but they ve notvrly helped. My son sounds identical to yours in
So many ways. I'm the same as you and will do anything I can to help him but he's so closed down I don't know where to start. So sorry no advice but you are not alone. Will he eat hi g with interest x x

Hi Emporer,

I can relate to your post. My DS is 17 now but struggled all through school and college.
My gut feeling also told me he was depressed so we arranged some counselling which has really helped.
The counsellor said anti-depressants would help but the doctor refused because of his age. The doctor was amazing and spent ages talking to him. We both felt relieved afterwards.
Then by chance I found a supplement called 5-htp in the health food shop. It's had a really positive impact on him (combined with cbt and counselling).
Might be worth a try?