17 yo daughter's risque clothes choices

[user1495105406]

Hello everyone.

My daughter (17 and a half) has had a quite womanly figure from her early teens. This has never seemed to be much of a problem, apart from her being I think a little embarassed by constantly having to ask me to buy her larger bras for a couple of years. She dressed quite normally, not conservative but not revealing either, just about right (I have never given her any advice on dressing until very recently, she seemed to have the right judgment herself). She certainly did not ever come to me with any problems she encountered as a result.

However, in the last 18 months or so she seems to be wearing more and more revealing clothes, especially as now she has a part-time job she has more freedom to buy clothes herself (not that I forced her to wear anything she didnt want to before). She now mostly wears a 32GG or 34G bra (they have been that size for about two years now....they also arent as huge as those sizes might make them sound if you're small like me..with a regular blouse and a decent bra they're barely noticeable) and she is otherwise very slim and toned as she is very active and eats well (I actually feel she spends too much time on fitness as I dont want her to become obsessed with it). In some ways she has the hourglass type figure most women (including myself!) would kill to have, which is good for her in a way but I'm becmoing uncomfortable with how much she seems to be flaunting it. At the beginning of last summer, once she started to have money of her own from a parttime job, she started buying lots of plunge bras, and wearing them with strappy tops and low-cut dresses which really puts her boobs right in your face which makes me and my husband really very uncomfortable a lot of the time, especially when other people are around. She even seems to have changed the clothes she wears to school to better show off her figure (the school has a uniform and dress code but it is not really that restrictive), so I am sure this is intentional what she is doing. She is a very pretty girl and should not need to dress in such a way to get male attention (if thats what she is doing, I dont know, it may be a competitive thing with other girls).

It is very difficult for me to argue with her because I know on one level she is right. She is adamant that its unfair that she should be not allowed to wear strappy tops or bikinis just because she has big boobs, and that she is not a "slut" just because she has big boobs. And she is completely right of course! The things she is wearing would be completely non-issue on a girl with smaller boobs. And I accept that she's proud of being very in shape. But still, this is the world we live in! Whether she likes it or not, she IS going to be thought of as "easy" or "asking for it" or whatever such stupid thing. But how can I say that without saying that she can't wear the same things as other girls just because she was unlucky or lucky enough to develop a big bust? Or perpetuating the stereotypes. One of the times I've brought it up, once was a huge fight, in which she said I was just "jealous" (I am not very voluptuous at all and never have been). I have absolutely no idea how I can bring it up again without it being an even bigger fight.

She has had one boyfriend (a nice lad who we got on with well and approved of) for about two years before they broke up, for reasons she has not explained that much about (it does not seem to have been the result of a falling out). As far as I remember the change in the way she dresses seems to have started around the same time (about 18 months ago) so I think it may be a confidence issue related to the end of that relationship? She certainly seems to still have a very active social life going by the constant use of her phone and her being constantly out. I do know from an accidental off-hand comment from a neighbour that on one occasion about six months ago she apparently had a boy over to our house when myself and my husband were away for the weekend (she does not know I know this), but she seems to be single at the moment, for what that's worth nowadays.

It makes me constantly anxious when she goes out with her friends dressed in the way she does (they say they're going to each others houses for sleepovers and such things but they could be anywhere). I also dont know what she's sharing on social media, and don't know how to bring that up as I do not really use it myself. That is a whole other thing. She has never mentioned any harassment either online or offline to me, and we have a relatively communicative relationship (I think).

She is also doing very well academically, so I am hesitant to make a big deal out of it for fear of disrupting that (or simply coming across as just cruel considering she is working very hard).

And yes, my mother told me off for what I wore when I was a teenager too. I know I know I know.

Finally, at the end of everything is the fact that she's 17, so almost an adult and old enough to go off herself wherever she likes, and free to not listen to anything I say. But that also makes me feel like I'm running out of time to let her be aware of the real world before she goes off into it by herself. And I feel just physically sick when I think of the perverts lurking out there. I do not want her playing with fire.

Thanks for reading if you made it all the way!

I've just read through that 2011 thread. Oh my, how attitudes have changed in 6 short years. The victim blaming, the slut shaming.

Some of the comments by apparent "feminists" at the time make me cringe.

This is a feminist issue, but, in my opinion, it is not as simple as saying that I support every woman's right to wear whatever she wants and not be harassed.

As a feminist I am offended by the subtle coercion which goes into making girls feel that they want to wear clothes that are tight, uncomfortable, awkward, etc. When I see my daughter dressed in a very tight, very short skirt, I know that she has been manipulated by society to think that she wants to wear such an awkward and uncomfortable piece of clothing. The skirt doesn't keep her warm, is impossible to run or climb in, and is even hard to walk or sit in. It bothers me that she has bought into the sexist, misogynist culture which has created such garments.

To me, some of the clothes which teenagers wear today are one step away from foot binding and Victorian corsets.

I try to keep my mouth shut, because I haven't observed that there is any point in arguing about it.

Also I think you have to allow her to make her own mistakes. She will learn through them.

Guidance is important but only if she wants it and the guidance seeks to educate/support her in her own decision making.

With regards to anyfuckers thread, I think there is a huge difference between trying to dictate what a fifteen year old wears and questioning a seventeen year old about there clothing choices. One is ok, the other isn't. At fifteen they are still technically a child and under the age of consent which makes a huge difference in my opinion.

I was this 17 year old once. Always had big boobs hourglass figure etc.

If my mum had told me she didn't want me to wear certain clothes because she thought other people might consider me a slur I would have lost my shit.

She's clearly happy with what she's wearing and if it's making her feel confident then that's a really good thing.

If you tell her she looks easy you are going to destroy that confidence.

If her boobs make you feel uncomfortable its you who has issues not her.

user1495105406 Sat 20-May-17 13:06:04
"Don't think that the people who scoff at this aren't also expressing their own (patriarchal) dress code. You are not as enlightened as you think you are. When was the last time you went to the shops wearing only your underwear, for example? And if you haven't, why not? You havent thrown out the rules, you've just changed them a little."

Which is exactly what your dd is doing, isn't it? And what every generation has been doing since the dawn of time. Or did I miss the bit where you said she is walking down the road in the nude?

Chances are that to her generation her choices are no more "in your face" than the ditching of the corset was in the 1920s. It's us who are growing old.

If she had amazing legs would you be bothered about her wearing shorts or mini skirts? If she had a great bum would you be bothered her weari g skinny jeans or leggings?

As long as they arent falling out of her clothes and shes forever tucking her nips back in then yabu.

"there is a huge difference between trying to dictate what a fifteen year old wears and questioning a seventeen year old about there clothing choices. One is ok, the other isn't. At fifteen they are still technically a child and under the age of consent which makes a huge difference in my opinion."

So on the day before the arbitrary age of consent im entitled to advise her but the day after im not? That's ridiculous. People develop over different periods of time.

"If my mum had told me she didn't want me to wear certain clothes because she thought other people might consider me a slur I would have lost my shit. "

I have never told her to wear or not to wear certain clothes.

"If her boobs make you feel uncomfortable its you who has issues not her."

Well, perhaps, I am not perfect. But you might have better communicated that in a more friendly and understanding manner.

I am just concerned about my daughter's present and future wellbeing. If that makes me a bad parent, then fine, I'm sorry

And thanl you to all who responded with some degree of decency

You haven't told her but you've written about how inappropriate you think her choices are on the Internet.

And I'm sorry but it is your issue. I don't even think my response was particularly harsh!

I haven't said you're a bad parent I just don't think it's any of your business what your daughter chooses to wear, sorry!

I would ask you what you consider to be inappropriate about what your DD wears, but don't want to turn this thread into wank fodder.

Are the people who replied with decency just the ones who agreed with you?

I have an 18YO who likes to wear very skimpy outfits on evenings out. I wouldn't dream of saying anything other than how lovely she looks, which she does.

I am another one who finds the whole tone of the OP creepy. The language is stilted and I find the obsession with breast size unnerving.

Disagree with most here. I have big boobs and it definitely impacts the way I dress. I'm a teacher and clothes that people with small boobs could wear with no problems wouldn't work for me in the classroom.

I think it's harder to dress at both ends of the scale- formal clothes and really summery casual stuff. The middle ground is much easier.

Bit different for your daughter because it sounds like she's happy and therefore I think you shouldn't say anything.

I didn't find the op particularly creepy. Thought she was trying so hard to explain the issue, she made it a bit awkward. Basically, the DD is dressing like other girls her age, but most skimpy teenager clothes isn't really designed for very large breasts, so it's more revealing than on other girls. The op is worried about how other people will react to her DD. She knows it's unfair of society etc etc, but she also inhabits the real world and therefore knows that whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, some people will react in a negative way. As a parent, that worries her.

Same as the 'fat people and job interviews' thread this week. People can see that fat people get treated more negatively. Doesn't mean the op agrees. It means she knows it happens.

At 17 it's highly unlikely that the OP's dd has not already experienced at least some degree of sexual harassment, and if she has large breasts she's almost certainly had that commented on regardless of how much or how little she has tried to minimise them. She's already navigating the 'real' world and this is how she has decided to present, I'm sure she is aware that she gets different reactions in different clothes, and has noticed how her friends and peers are perceived too.

My teenagers are very aware of this at 16 and 18, and have been for a while. We've talked about it in the context of both rape myths and dickish behaviour. Perverts are as likely to perve over dd in dowdy/childish clothes as they are when she's wearing short shorts. ds is I hope as unlikely to be a creepy dick when his classmates look sexy as when they are all covered up.

Argh - grammar. In my defence, I'm typing from under a sleeping toddler.

Back when I was 17, I had a tiny waist and big boobs. I wouldn't wear anything strappy or "revealing" because I thought it would attract the wrong sort of attention. This wasn't helped by my mum, who had small boobs, and always referred to mine as "massive", and instilled the idea that "displaying" them would generate unwanted male attention. I wasn't banned from wearing anything, just mothers have a way of letting their disapproval be known.

i regret spending all of my part time job wages on "respectable" clothes thinking it would be my own fault if I was harassed etc. I'm still left with an aversion to fashion and a lack of body confidence, don't let that happen for your daughter. She sounds absolutely able to make decisions for herself if she can explain why the way she dresses should not implicate her in a sexual offence commited against her.

Are you jealous of her?

I totally understand this. And, I am not a creepy middle-aged man or a naive, overprotective repressed mother but a liberated, intelligent, feminist.
I have a figure like that (tall, slim, hour glass, large bust). My teenage daughter has a figure like that.
Fact is that if I wear a low-cut top for example (admittedly not so much now that I am OLD), men - and women - react very differently to me than to some others. I've adapted to this in all sorts of different ways over the years (played with it, riled against it, ignored it, used it...).
My daughter is younger than yours but we have discussed the issue a couple of times. Notably, recently, when she really wanted a bikini and the ones in the local shops weren't big enough. I was somehow relieved as I know that she, 13 in a bikini, will get a different reaction from strangers than her friends in theirs and I wanted to protect her from that - from having to deal with all that - for a little longer.
Your daughter is 17, she's probably playing with her sexuality (which is normal) and, maybe, like I did, playing with the relationship between how you look, how intelligent you are and how people react to you. I think you have to let her go with it: she'll find the balance which works for her and it will change in different contexts and over time.
On the more general point, recently I was doing some senior management training (very senior) and the trainer used some masks to ask us to think about what image we wanted to project to staff. I had a moment of total clarity talking to some of the men, who literally never think in those terms. Every single woman there totally agreed that every single morning we get dressed and - almost without thinking - make a load of choices about our clothes for the day in terms of how we want to present ourselves (powerdress? Heels? Blend into background?). There is no neutral, unmarked way for women to dress (no make-up is just as 'judged' as make-up etc), but the men can just bung on their suits and go.
Your daughter will have to navigate all this and as a DM it's tough to watch. I would talk to her about it. I think we should all talk to our daughters (and sons) about it actually...

TBH I find a huge expanse of chest quite disconcerting. My eyes are drawn to look. And I'm a middle-aged, heterosexual mother of teenagers. This probably says more about my cultural conditioning than me. I'm all for breastfeeding in public.

I agree with pps who acknowledge that it's complicated.

Bit of a digression - but I often wish female politicians and other high profile female professionals would 'just' wear shirts and trousers like men do so as to remove the pressure on women to, as above poster has said 'present' themselves in a particular way. It must be so much easier for men.

Of course, women would still no doubt be criticised as frumpy or for their trousers or blouses for being wrong/unflattering.

Every time I see TM and NS in particular wearing straight skirts and heels - presumably to show off their slim legs I feel like shouting, 'You don't have to get your legs out and your outfit doesn't suit you anyway.' Stop it.

Male politicians in a shirt and tie otoh....

Your strange digging up of a long-standing, well-established poster's old thread in a vain attempt to defend your own position is outright odd

No, exposing that posters outrageous hypocrisy is exactly the right thing to do. She lined up for a shot at the OP and was shown up for it.

The OP has been called creepy several times. Why the fuck shouldn't she stand up for herself?

AF and Whisk- why feel the need to be so damn nasty?

Bloody hell. That must be the longest waffling on ever. I have no advice. Stop waffling.

I think the most important thing to do is talk to her about sexual harassment and how to deal with it.
Men harass women wearing anything. It's honestly true.

I see where you are coming from OP.
My DD (13) is a bit younger but is tall for her age and looks a lot older with make up. I worry about what she wears because clothes that look cute on her shorter less developed can friends look a inappropriate and grown up on her. I am desperately trying not to curb her desire to express herself and I am trying to guide and advise rather than dictate what she wears. It's all well and good saying girls should be free to skip about with their breasts out and be free from harassment but the reality is pretty different. Like it or not girls are judged on their appearance.

I check our washed undies by looking at labels cos we like of the same styles - when it's scrunched after the wash you can't always tell. Is that an issue? Omg I am a pervert!