14 year old daughter...defiant and dangerous behaviour.

[CherHorowitz80]

Hi, I only just joined Mumsnet today because my teenage daughters behaviour is making me ill. We've had several instances when she has just stormed out of the house late at night and we don't know where she is - and usually for pretty much no reason. This happened Boxing Day when we were at her grandparents. She refuses to answer the phone and said she was staying at a friends house overnight but refused to say where. Of course we didn't know if this is true - she's 14 and therefore vulnerable but when we say we will call the police she holds us to ransom and says she will never come home if we do this. So many friends say, do this and do that - but ultimately even the calmest of showdowns over behaviour result in her storming out of the house. Aside from physically restraining her we have no way we can stop her doing it. Quite often these outbursts seem to come out of the blue. I don't know where to turn. Clearly we need to address this behaviour but everytime things calm down we are glad of this and try to avoid anything that will lead to another outburst. Safety is the big issue. We can't have her running off at stupid o'clock and risk something happening to her. Any advice would be so welcome or if anyone has been through anything similar? We lost a family member a few months ago and I have had it suggested that when this happens to teens they can question their own health/mortality and others too, making them act out.

Sounds a very difficult situation. In calmer moments does she say what is making her so angry? Can she articulate how she feels?

I think I'd ignore her threats of not coming home and call the police every time she runs off. 14 is very young.

At 14 the police can bring her home whether she likes it or not.

My DSD is 13 and does the same. Bottom line, she's not in a position to refuse to return home, call the police when she storms off. She's a missing child.
I know how hard it is when you're terrified of a kick off or of another showdown but you need to regain control of the situation. If she knows that you'll all dance to her tune, there's no incentive to stop. You have to make good your threat to involve the police, and refuse to tolerate her behaviour, change the wifi password, remove her phone, don't give in. It's hard going, but it needs to be done. Good luck.

So she's stayed out all night & you don't know where? But then comes home safe. If nothing else, she sounds very resourceful.

"In calmer moments does she say what is making her so angry? Can she articulate how she feels?"

Agree with that, it's a good starting place. Ask her what you could do better to help her not get so upset. Don't reply except to ask for more information, you Listen & take it on the chin even if you think she's spouting rubbish or even saying something venomous, you want to hear her perspective as completely as possible, it doesn't matter at that moment who is "wrong" or "right." Her response is probably tangled complicated & you can't fix it with a few special words.

Hi, thanks for the comments 😊 In answer to whether she says what's wrong when she's calmed down sadly it's no. She doesn't like sharing anything with us. It's weird to me because we've always been really really close, and I've told her so many times there's nothing she can't talk to me about but it doesn't seem to get me anywhere. Its like she's trying to keep me and her dad at a distance. Sometimes I feel bad that she's an only child and wonder if she's bitter about it as most of her friends seem to have two or more siblings.

How well can you handle her being horrible to you?
I wonder if you could ask her to tell you one thing she'd like you to do differently as her parents ("Stop nagging me" doesn't count).

Then tell her what you'll try to do that is at least partly what she listed, and after that ask once a week after that how you're doing at that one thing.

If you ask her to list what she doesn't like about you parents, she will talk.
If you can not take it personally, but see it as a way to (eventually) nudge the door wider to other communication, it could be the opportunity you need.

Also, try this book. It helps some people handle their teens better.

Thanks, I just ordered this book right now from EBay 😊 I hope we can get somewhere soon. I don't know if it's about us as although we're not perfect I really don't see what we do as parents that can be so bad. But then I guess she is a teenager . Getting her to talk is the challenge.

What are her friends like? Nice bunch, generally?

One of my DDs (15) is a very closed book, tells us very little, I sometimes manage to prise things out of her, usually in the car, but it's hard going.

No advice as such but my dd is exactly the same. I asked for SS support and received an early help worker who met up with her a few times and just gave her advice on staying safe really and basically she has to send me via text an address of where she's staying and parents number incase of emergency or I'm to report her missing to police. It has made a small difference she generally does send me an address and lets me know via text where she is but she still goes where she wants when she wants even when I've said no .

Also my dd seeks out arguments so she can storm out to whatever gathering is going on.

Have you spoken to school? They could refer her to camhs, counselling, offer mentoring?

Also my dd seeks out arguments so she can storm out to whatever gathering is going on.

I've heard there's quite a waiting list for cahms and also can I involve them without her permission? She has snuck out with alcohol today - just one can of Guinness but really blatantly lied about it. We don't keep much alcohol in the house but I'm definitely getting rid of it all. Again she says she is at one friend's house and my mum dropped her there but I don't trust a word she says. Also threatened again not to come back. This has all happened while I'm at work and her dad is at home. My sole concern is her safety. But being threatened with "I'll never come home" hits hard. It's been so hard working today trying not to just cry all the time. Feel lost and useless tbh.

My daughter ran off, wouldn't tell us where she was and we called the police. When we found her(she was at a friends house) we asked the police to come round the next day early. They explained how dangerous her behaviour was and gave some examples of what could happen to her. This shocked her and we haven't had a repeat of this. I believe this sort of behaviour needs nipping in the bud.

That's where we are at the moment. Can't have her holding us to ransom with threats when safety is the biggest issue.

I had one like this at the same age. Ironically now he's over 18 and can come and go freely as any other adult, he comes in early and heads to bed

It is terribly worrying, and absolutely frustrating that they won't solve this problem with a simple text "I'm as so and so's house, back about xx pm"

What I used to do was harvest any and every mobile number from his friends if they rang the house or if his phone was lying around. Yes - snoop if you have to!

When he didn't respond to a text asking where he was, I'd threaten to text his friends and ask them instead. Still no response? Then I did it, starting with his best friend, and working my way outwards to the more obscure ones, who were likely to be more surprised at my cheery "Hi there! I'm xx's mum. Have you seen him because he's not answered his phone. So worried because he hasn't had his tea. Thanks so much!"

In short - I behaved like a frenzied loon (he drove me to it your honour). But I did get replies pretty sharpish, albeit "What the are you doing mum?!" Proof that he was still alive either way.

Hang in there .... it does get better.

It's good to hear that other people have dealt with this stuff. It's trying to figure out what's normal teen rebellion and what's more serious like a mental health issue. Last night/this morning was our worst episode yet. She'd been fine all day and then decided she was going out with friends. No later than 10.30 home was the plan but we decided as it was New Year's Eve and she was being escorted home we wouldn't stress out till 11. Constant phone calls and texts after that and she eventually was at the door at 12.45am. At this point me and her dad were feeling sick with stress and angry too but we have learnt by now that we can't get heated at times like this or she will scream and argue and potentially run out of the door. She had clearly been drinking. We told her calmly to go to her room and she started being argumentative and really aggressive straight away. We also discovered she had her dads medication in her pocket (he's on blood thinners). Thankfully they seem untouched but obviously you don't mess around with stuff like that. I know so many people say take their phones, etc but honesty she flips out to the point where if neighbours heard they would probably call the police because they would think something horrendous was happening. The rebellion etc is one thing. I get that teenagers are full of hormones and some act up enormously, but it's the defiance and anger that worries me so much. Don't most children who do this stuff maybe argue but then go and slam their doors? We don't get this. The answer is always to run off no matter when it is or tell us she's never coming back. This makes us scared to rock the boat because a child alone at night is the biggest nightmare. Sorry for this long post. But any well meaning advice about talking to her is impossible. I continue to try but it doesn't work. Does anyone think I should be considering if this is a mental health issue?

Would like to know one year on how your life is with your daughter? We are going through the same with our fourteen year old and I hope to read that things are improving with age with your daughter (If they get worse before they better I would like to know that too).

I'd be asking someone to check out child exploitation tbh. In Kent that would most likely be an early help worker completing a CSE Toolkit with her. Not hugely likely, but worth checking out just in case. Just as well whoever she took the tablets for knew that they weren't abuse worthy\had no street value!

Hi, I haven’t looked on here since my first post back in 2016. Someone asked a year later how things were and if they’d improved because they’re in a similar situation. I’d love to say yes but it would be a complete lie. She’s 16 now and the issue is still going on - she’s depressed and recently found out she’s been drinking more than just the odd bit with friends. We have periods of calm, quite long ones, and then just as we feel calmer something explodes again. We’ve had trips to hospital from taking pills to punching walls, also a really unsuccessful time with CAMHS, who, in all honesty, I feel have probably made things worse. It was 18 months ago my first post - I realised I haven’t had been able to hug my child in even longer than that. It’s all breaking me a little bit.

Just read through this thread, but it is your last comment that has really hit home!!! I’ve had a very troubled few years with my DD and I’m finding it hard to remember the last proper hug we had! I have found that anger and complete avoidance is usually masking anxiety and depression and it is so hard to deal with as a mother. Just wanted to send you a hug xxx

Thank you for that message. It actually choked me up a bit and I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the virtual hug ❤️ I’m currently sitting with my heart racing waiting for my daughter to get home and feeling like, how much more can I take? I feel so out of control of the situation. I never thought I’d be this parent, I guess nobody does.

You’re welcome! If we sit and think too much about how it’s making us feel it can be too overwhelming. My daughter is almost 18 now so there really isn’t anything I can do anymore, but it still won’t stop me worrying about where she is and what she might be doing! She did once make a comment to me when we were having a chat saying that she wants to push me and her dad away so that we won’t care as much or be as hurt by her actions!!! She said it hurts her to see us worried and upset, and I suppose she would feel less guilt if we were the kind of parents that didn’t care! Funny sense of logic, but also make complete sense if you get what I mean! It sounds cliches but really try to do things for you - try not to let your relationship with your hubby/partner slip! We have had a rocky few years but have decided to try and focus on us a bit more and not let our frustration out on each other. Try and enjoy this gorgeous weather we are having xxxx

It does seem to be that while they treat us horribly they also feel terrible guilt about it, but it doesn’t stop them doing it. I feel like with my daughter, she works so hard at being happy and up beat around her friends that she’s only got the anger left when she’s around us. You’re right about making some time for yourselves though, I was about to comment on how me and my partner are always on the same page and don’t let it pit us against each other in any way but then we just had an argument about it and I hung up on him 🙄 I was going to disappear on the train to Bath for the day till I remembered it was all bus replacement in that direction at the moment - even the trains are against me! 😂

Hi, I don’t know if anyone is still watching this thread but a horrible thing happened today/last night. My daughter came home, she’d told us she was staying with her friend, her friend had said she was staying with us, we found out they’d just been wandering round town after having a drink and had approached a guy outside a house and asked for a cigarette. He invited them into his house and horribly they went in - there were four “men” and my daughter and her friend. This is worrying enough in itself but then an argument happened and my daughter and her friend got punched in the face by this man. Apparently his one friend then ran off and they left. Thankfully they went to the police but they waited over an hour there and just left. Obviously I am in pieces about this. I left work and came home and contacted the police myself - telling them everything I knew. I know the police are badly resourced but we have to wait to speak to the police for a statement until Tuesday - 3 days away. I can’t believe this is right. I have nobody but her dad to talk to about this. What I have going on in my head is how this was so terrible but could have actually ended in us reporting a sexual assault. These men were apparently 20s or 30s, I can’t believe they have anything but horrible reasons for inviting two 16 year old girls in for a “drink”. I honestly thought the police would be straight down for a statement, I can’t believe that two 16 year old girls being assaulted doesn’t warrant same day attention.