Depressed 13 year old DD

[pandora987]

My DD 13 is so sad and says she doesn't want to be alive anymore. I am taking her to GP and presumably she'll get a camhs referral, but I'm so worried about her. She is writing down some terrible things about how she feels with phrases like she's a waste of space and can't see the point of going on and how everyone would be better off if she's not alive anymore. She told me the other night that it doesn't matter if she's here or not and she doesn't want to be anywhere anymore. She has an uneasy relationship with her father, but this seems to be better recently. She was seeing a boy at school but this has just ended. She has friends at school and used to enjoy it but now says she hates it. She still does after school sports and some other activities like violin lessons and karate and still enjoys these. She then tells me she's fine and not to worry about her. (like that's going to happen)
Has anyone got any advice? I know GP and Camhs and counsellors are a good starting place , but is this teenage angst or much more. I'm terrified my lovely girl isn't going to make it... All I can do is cry.

Does she socialise out of school? My DD has additional needs but many of her peers who don't seem to have a pretty bleak outlook they post pictures and quotes such as "I'm a bit messed up inside" "life would be better dead" "I'm dead inside" so on and so forth. They post pics of self harm (not their own). I was really alarmed and spoke to school about it according to them it's "common"! One of DDs best friends said she likes dark stuff like American horror story and loves Skins she says lots of things which concern me. It's really positive she is still enjoying extra curricular activities and I think hating school is quite common. She might be heartbroken after break up, she might be having friendship issues , this age is really tough for them and you. My DD sees camhs and it's a pretty slow process, took 9 months on waiting list. Does her school have a pastoral team? They often have counsellors and therapy they can access through school. Do school know?

Would you say she's having some quite rapid mood swings then Pandora ( and [hugs] by the way, really feel for you)? She sounds quite like my DD also 13. One min she's laughing and the next she's down in the gutter and everything is terrible. I bought some Well Woman tablets for her last month to see if a diet supplement would help. Sounds obvious but diet and enough sleep are big factors in how good you feel and there's also the dreaded hormones!
How much of this do you think is to do with this boy at school btw, does she say much about it? Hopefully it will pass soon if that is troubling her.

Whilst you are waiting for GP (how long are you waiting they should get her in quick) etc have you had a look if there are any good books out there on self confidence/self worth. Do you tell her positive stuff about herself and her life OP, what I mean is don't just assume she know's that xyz love her or she's pretty or kind or whatever, tell her, often. Have you got any other family members or friends she might talk to eg an Aunty or someone?

Good luck and stay here for help.

My DD is nearly 13 and struggling with anxiety and panic attacks. It's horrible to see, it's such a difficult time for them. Our GP said to get help through school and the Student Support Manager has been helpful. The school nurse can give her some basic support and we've been referred through to a charity for some counselling for her. I try to just make sure I'm there for her (though it can be really tiring), and create some nice time for me and her where at least she can "escape" from all her worries for a bit. My DD also has a less than ideal relationship with her dad, difficult to know how much that is the thing affecting her. Bloody friendship issues too. School says year 8 the worst then it gets gradually better!

Dolly yes I would agree yr 8 pretty bad, they are still finding their feet.
I know what mean about how tiring it can be, I can feel like I've been run over by a steam roller after a conversation with DD when she's feeling low.

I agree with the post above that says that a large part of it could just be, that it's a trend amongst certain circles of teens.

My own DD who is suffering with depression & run away anxiety gets really angry at some of the Instagram posts that she regularly sees in her feed & has certain people down as "attention seeking drama queens" & "MH is not a fashion trend" as a result. Some of the stuff she has shown me would be worrying, but as DD says, the ones who are really suffering, do so quietly & she is right, she has a few friends in similar situations to herself & their posts never show their feelings in this way.

So if these things she is writing that scare you, are open posts in social media, it might be little more than normal teen angst & keeping up with an Emo trend, though of course the ex boyfriend & school friendships are going to be difficult for her. DDs CAHMS mentor works with the school too & she has said that it often shocks her just how bad the pressure & friendship dynamics of young girls between yr6 & the end of year 9 is these days. If your DD is especially bright, then that could add to it more, as sadly bright kids are known to be worriers.

If these things are written privately, then you have more room to worry. I would also suggest speaking to the school re counselling as it will be much quicker than CAHMS & may well be CAHMS led as DDs school is.

Other than that - is her diet okay ?? If she's vegetarian, vegan or do you have an pernicious anaemia in the family, or other reasons she might not absorb vitamins properly, then ask for a B12 blood test - though do get a print out & if the figure is under 500, this could well be the cause of her problems - it is for my own DD. Don't give her B12 supplants until tested though, they will skew the test results

We've found 5htp very helpful for DD & Maca, added to shakes etc

Good luck

I know what you mean mabel about the steam roller. My DD's dad says, "She doesn't need much looking after now she's older" (we're separated) and I think you just have NO idea.

I totally understand that one too, toddlerhood was FAR easier - at least then you weren't trying to juggle teen angst, with severe anxiety etc & allowing them the freedom to be independent & grow up. Mine is in a wheelchair now too, so that's even harder. She accuses me of smothering her one minute(which I don't) & then "why weren't you there when I needed help" the next

My DD got quite clingy when she was going through her latest round of friendship stuff and wanted lots of hugs and even slept in my bed a couple of nights. It was nice to know she still appreciates the support when the rest of the time it's er, get off me, and when I go into her room, bye now mum, can you shut the door?!

Have got back from GP and been told that the waiting list for camhs is long and the GP doesn't think she'll meet the criteria anyway!! What do they have to do to get seen - jump in front of a train or something???Anyway I have today booked her in for counselling sessions privately (£30 a session) so hopefully that will help.
I know what you mean mabel about the steamroller - that's just how I feel. Hard to see how I'm ever going to be happy again - maybe I should see someone too...
I will speak to the school about counselling too. DD wants to see her dad more and that's ok with me so maybe that will help.
Diet is a good point - hers is pretty bad but a blood test is a problem as she has a massive needle phobia!! rockinhippy do you think she should have supplements anyway?
DD really wont tell me how much is boy, how much is friendships/school how much is her dad. I don't think she knows TBH. She seems a bit better in herself today.
School do know and they are quite worried about her and are trying to bump her up the waiting list for their counsellor.
Mumsnet is a bit of a lifeline isn't it - advice helps and also knowing others are going through it too and coping. It would be nice to think it will get better as they get older instead of worse. Here's hoping year 8 is the worst and our DDs get happier..

Yes I was surprised by the lack of help from the doctor - we were told the same thing. It's horrible whilst it's going on, and difficult to know whether it's perhaps being a bit more sensitive to the usual stuff, which will pass with age and experience, or whether it's a sign of possibly more enduring mental health issues. DD's dad has a history of mental health conditions in his family and mine are not exactly without their problems, so maybe I'm a bit over-cautious.

So Pandora what, if anything, did the GP do to help you and DD? Please tell me there was something they could suggest?

I would look at some diet supplements if you say her diet is bad. DD seems to have been somewhat better since I started her on the Well Woman capsules, not sure if it's that that's helped but I'll try anything...

Diet is a good point - hers is pretty bad but a blood test is a problem as she has a massive needle phobia!! rockinhippy do you think she should have supplements anyway?

Some supplements might be a good idea as several vitamin deficiencies have depression as a symptom.

But with B12 deficiency you need to be sure that there isn't any underlying absorption problem, if there is, then supplements containing B12 won't help, but will skew any future blood test results.

I learnt that one the hard way with my own DD, we have a very strong family history of autoimmune Pernicious Anaemia. DDs blood results were on the low side, but not low enough for our doctor to take seriously & treat, as she had been taking supplements, but it's the wrong form of B12, so doesn't help her health problems. If you can afford it though & there are reasons to suspect an absorption problem of some sort, then there is a private uMMA urine test which is the gold standard test. Unfortunately NHS tests are known to be unreliable, but not all doctors work on that basis.

IF you are sure there are no underlying problems such as family members with PA, she's had ongoing stomach trouble, chrohns, colitis, IBS etc, certain drugs such as nitrous oxide for teeth extraction etc which block B12 absorption, possible parasite such as a tape worm & she doesn't eat a lot of animal produce, - (sorry, I've been on a huge learning curve with this stuff lately & it's been a real eye opener for us health wise, so I can ramble on ). - Then yes, she could well benefit from a Complete B vitamin supplement & maybe an added B12 sublingual spray or lozenge too to boost her B12 right up - it's a water soluble vitamin, so she can't have too much. She will also need to take Folic acid to help the body absorb the B12.

Other B Vit deficiencies, such as B6 (I think) also have Depression as a symptom

& Vitamin D is something most of the U.K. is deficient in, especially in winter, this causes depression too(& other symptoms) the NHS good levels for this are actually pretty low, so where as you can over dose on it, you can safely take quite a lot -

my DDs vit D was low, so I gave her a "loading dose of 10,000iu of D3, plus 200pu of K2, with a spoonful of coconut oil (fat to help absorb it) daily for 2 weeks & her next blood test it was a bit high (as far as NHS goes) & I now give her 5000iu, plus Vit K 2/3 times a week as a maintenance dose, she also takes magnesium & 5htp too, though I've heard good things about sAME too for helping depression, so I'm looking into swapping 5htp for that

My own DD does have a lot more going on than the depression & anxiety though, pain, insomnia etc, but she actually chose to meet 2 of her school friends in town on her own this week & insisted that she would be okay with the wheelchair on her own, she's also,looking forward to visiting school this week, this might not sound a lot, but it is a HUGE step forward for her, so I do think the supplements help

Oh & I forgot to say - CAHMS have given us contact details for the MIND charity, apparently they have "young persons advocates" who are fully trained & can be available far more than CAHMS can (thanks to cut backs)

I really hope some of that helps your DD, it's hellish for them & us to deal with

Oh & if your GP is rubbish - you can self refer to CAHMS

So sorry your girl is going through a difficult time Pandora - my son went through something similar in teenage. I'm glad you're paying for your daughter to see a private counsellor. The only trouble is that young people of this age aren't very good at opening up to strangers. It could be a combination of the boyfriend, her dad and friendship groups at school. At least she's still getting into school, so that's something.

Your daughter might find the website youngminds helpful.

thanks rockinhippy. There is no history of anything in our family, DD has no ongoing medical issues and she isn't a veggie, but I'm sure supplements would help her be more healthy even if not directly for depression as she hasn't got the best diet.. very fussy..
mabel the GP wants to see her next week, told us it would be a long process to feel better, and asked me to collect letters from school about DD so there would be a file on her that GP could send to camhs. But then said she wouldn't fit camhs criteria. Not sure how helpful that will be then!
Had a nice evening with DD making some music videos on an app, then watched some TV together. This morning she wanted a cuddle and has had her teddy in bed with her. So I guess she's a stroppy teen one minute and a little girl who needs her mum the next. I've made sure she knows I'm here for her, and I'm trying really hard not to say "are you Ok" every 5 minutes as this really winds her up.
Has anyone got experience of counselling for their DD /DS? Does the counsellor consult or inform parents of content or progress or is it all patient confidentiality? I'm going to find it really hard not knowing how its going or whether its helping. Sure as eggs is eggs DD won't want to talk about it..

That's great Pandora, much easier to put right with supplement

In the beginning we found the Holland & Barrett Complete B Vitamin B Complex pills, taken with 1 X H&B 50g 5HTP to be helpful for DDs anxiety, depression & insomnia. The Complete B, has B12 in it too, not great for us as it skewed blood results, but would be fine for your DD, plus it has all,other B vits in it, which are known to help with depression & sleep etc, as is 5htp. We also give her H& B high dose magnesium as it helps regulate stress levels, pain etc & I explained about Vit D below, vit D & K I buy stuff that was recommended to me on Amazon. Shout if you want more details on those.

Re; counselling

We haven't had private (just spotted that you are doing that for her, which is great) but with CAHMS & School counsellors when she was a bit younger, we do/did get feed back from the counsellors, not detailed as such, but I did get the impression that they would flag up any concerns that it would be helpful for you to know about. As you are paying, & she is still a minor, then my guess is that you can insist on more details if you want to.

Oh & Maca is known to regulate hormones, it's an adaptogen so it does what your body needs it to. Again we found it helpful for both myself & DD, but I've had to stop because of ongoing testing ATM. I know several others who swear by Maca too.

Bless her with her teddy bear, it's such a difficult age for them & just seems far worse these days, just so much pressure. I worry that mine isn't in school & hadn't been for so long, but in some ways, as fragile as she is right now, I realise it's no bad thing

thank you rockinhippy for all your advice. I will definitely try the supplements and hope that counselling will help her.
Hope your DD is Ok too - it sounds like you are a great mum doing everything you can for her .

Hugs for your Rockin you sound like you have had/are having a tough time and you have given such kind advice to Pandora.

Pandora if your GP said DD wouldn't fit the criteria for CAMHS then did they specify what the criteria were? I fail to see how she could not fit criteria if she is saying and writing all the stuff you said she is. I wonder if there is anyway you can contact them directly just to get the correct information?

I totally get the wants her teddy thing and then is being stroppy, my DD carries around a lamb she's had since a baby and more recently a Baymax (Big Hero 6) soft toy. Glad to here of your nice evening.

We are (hopefully) just coming out the other side of this with DD1 (16). Vitamin supplements seem to help,omega3 is worth considering,its known to help with depression.

Is your DD on the pill by any chance? Our DD was and we didn't realise it is linked to depression. She came off it last week and the change has been remarkable.

One other thing that might help that her Doctor gave her is a homeopathic remedy called sepia officianalis.

I have no idea whether the effect is real or psychological but as long as she is getting better I don't really care.

I hope you find something that helps.

French - DD is not on the pill ! She's only just 13.. Went to her first counselling session last night (private £25 for an hour) Seemed OK afterwards but I don't know what was said because completely confidential! But she wants to go back said it helped. Counsellor works in different school to DD as counsellor so hopefully will be able to help as she has 10 years experience of angsty school teens behind her! I will try to get DD to see her school counsellor as well or instead as it's free.
Now just need to sort some therapy out for me as well... It feels like everything has stopped - not much good to DD if I sit around crying. Feel like I've fallen into a big hole and can't see out

I would just like to say, please please try all avenues. This happened to my DD, 15 who also suffers severe social anxiety and meant she was unable to go to school for 3 years. We begged CAMHS and others for help, but we told time and time again that there was nothing they could do. Do to the social anxiety she would not interact with anyone. She feels everyone, even people that walk past her are judging her.

Well 3 years down the line and the worst day off life appeared before last November when DD was sectioned. Firstly for 28 days and then on the 27th December for a further six months.

Where she is now is.fantastic, but I just feel more could have been done in the three years before this (us included)

OMG Becks what happened with your daughter for it to come to that? My DD is still going to school and hasn't mentioned not going. We are trying to give her help now and nip it in the bud so it doesn't escalate further. What more do you think you could have done? Did you get support from school? What is happening to your DD now?

I think you are right to do anything you can now to stop it escalating. It sounds like the counselling was a positive experience. We actually have an appointment booked for 10 days hence, my DD doesn't seem like she needs it any more but she is keen to keep the appt so we will see.