15 year old DD wants to go vegan

[MrsMiniver]

I don't know if this is just a phase but DD seems determined to start following a vegan diet because she's horrified by the way animals are treated (be it for meat or dairy). I'd be ok if she opted for vegetarianism but I'm concerned about her not getting enough calcium, protein etc in a vegan diet.

Has anyone else experienced this or are vegan themselves? Whilst I do share some of her concerns about animal welfare and have been sympathetic, I've also pointed out that there might be health implications.

Yes ouryve tis true I did point this out earlier

Thanks for the link LadyP - I'm near Watford but sadly Ahimsa aren't accepting new orders at the moment because they're at capacity!

Ok, forget the four stomachs. My point being that human bodies aren't really designed to digest dairy; cows milk is designed for baby cows, rather than humans.

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will come along with more info, but I wonder if there is a correlation between consuming dairy and flatulence in humans? As the environmental impact of cows producing methane through flatulence is huge!

In my case it's consumption of pulses, brassica and alliums that causes flatulence. Sorry for tmi.

Dairy does 'disagree' with a lot of people - there are entire ethnicities who are lactose intolerant. Other people don't tolerate some of the cow's milk proteins.

But a healthy diet should normally result in optimum digestion. Over consumption of sugar and refined carbs can disrupt the gut flora resulting in flatulence. Same with antibios.

My farmer friend has cows that are up to 20 years old & are milked daily

I respect my farmer friend, for the how he manages his family owned farm, animals & how he educates the local children & visitors.

Some farms do sell milk straight from their cows. However, I believe that it is not recommended for everyone without being pasturised first.

Bull in field with cows = babies

The male calves grow into beef cattle

Has anyone been up at 4am to milk cows ?

Has anyone been to visit a diary farm ?

The super markets pay farmers a "fair price" for milk, I think it is about 15 pence a litre, the price fluctuates.

Does anyone make their own compost, catch rain water & grow their own veg ?

We all have choices to make

If we make one good choice per day, the world will be a better place...

Happyhotel you're post made me smile, yep have been up at 4am to milk cows (as part of my work) have you?
Yep collect rain water/make compost/grow veg.

What happens to the calves does vary but most farmers don't get a good enough price to rear them so they get shot. I don't blame the farmer, it's a business.

Vegan is fine with all the caveats above but is it a calorie restricting thing really - part of a power over food eating disorder ?

" I can't eat that because " leading to eating a few carrot sticks and not much else ?

Just a thought.

Been a vegan for almost ten years and have the opposite 'problem' with my daughter (though she is younger) - I'm saying this because in a way, as much as I'm 100% sure of my own choices, my daughter can be quite a fussy eater with regards to protein foods, and I feel guiltily glad that she eats eggs as I wouldn't be so confident about the balance of her diet otherwise...
All this to say that yes, be proud of her for making strong ethical choices and choosing to live life in accordance to her principles; but do instill in her that her own health is as equally important, whether she's vegan or not and that it is her responsibility. (Medicines to treat illnesses are just mostly not vegan, and at that stage you don't have a choice!)

At 15, you should really make sure she gets enough minerals and good fats (don't let her go onto low-fat diet).

Lots of good suggestions upthread, will just add don't get sucked into the processed vegan 'alternatives' - fine as a treat (I'm very partial to vegusto cheeze!) but not needed/not so great for you, also don't go overdo soya, ideally eat it mosty in a fermented state like tempeh (and never buy non-organic soya products)!

Make sure she learns to love leafy greens, nuts/seeds, pulses, tahini, wholegrains & seaweed! All essential for a balance of minerals.

I eat loads of non organic soya, it doesn't worry me (either the quantities or the GM status) .

DD2's friend is vegan and started at around 16. Her mother told her she had to do her own cooking, and that worked fine. She had been doing her own laundry for a few years, and taking care of her own pets, etc.

My thought on this would be the same thought I have when one of the DCs decides they don't want to eat whatever I plan to cook for dinner -- make yourself something else, don't use every single pot in the kitchen, clean up after yourself, and don't try to monopolise the kitchen at the same time I am cooking there for the rest of the family.

Tbh I'd agree to the change but id insist on a doctors visit for a general check up before and after a few months to check iron levels etc. I'd also get a dietician referral to make sure her diet is adequate and to help her get the tools to manage her intake.

She's still growing so it's even more important to make sure everything is ok. It is a very restricted diet and dangerous if you don't know what you are doing.

A dr visit? No way that's ridiculous. What are you going to do force feed her red meat?
I think the better approach is just being sensible!

My 15 year old dd has been vegan for around 5 months now, before that she was vegetarian. She has never eaten healthier than now! She does make alot of her meals herself and helps with shopping or asks for ingredients if I'm going shopping.
Just had her tests done at her check-up as she needed a fitness certificate for competitive sport and she had perfect results.

Typical days food for her would be breakfast (makes own) wholgrain bread with veggie spread and a big bowl of oats, soya yogurt and berries with added chia seeds, lunch something like wholegrain pasta/brown rice/bulgur with spinach and pine nuts, olive oil and added veg like sweetcorn or tomatoes and evenings a really big salad, leaves, peppers, chickpeas, cucumber with a tahini lemon dressing etc or quinoa salad with kidney beans and sweetcorn eaten with some plain nachos.

Some quick points

You cannot say you are concerned about animal welfare if you are sending animals to their death. It's an oxymoron. There's no such thing as humane slaughter.

Let's remember that ALL your daughter has chosen to do is live her life without harming animals, I'd be pretty proud of her right now.

Superdrug do not test any of their own brand products on animals and most of their items are vegan; they're a very cheap option for cosmetics and toiletries.

You can get ALL of your nutritional needs from a plant based diet. Almost all soya/nut milks contain vitamin B12, so you don't even need to take a supplement.

Here's some links to help you out:

earthlings.com/

www.vegansociety.com/resources

www.abolitionistvegansociety.org/why-veganism

vegankit.com/why

There's also loads of documentaries on Netflix and YouTube (Earthlings, Vegucated, Forks over Knives, Cowspiracy etc)

I went veggie in my teens and almost drove my mum mad with making 3 different meals (picky siblings). For goodness sake make her cook her own if she wants to be vegan, you'll be doing her a massive favour, and yourself.

I'm going to echo the comment about yeast. It's really valuable!!

I would say try to be supportive of the whole thing but don't be invasive - maybe encourage her to start slowly and learn as she goes?

It's notable that when you first go vegan there can be a sort of period of time where it doesn't feel that good. Like I got stomach cramps and stuff for a couple days. It's pretty normal and after about two weeks maximum I felt totally ok and since I went vegan I actually feel more energized and generally healthier.

Re: the comment about throwing away all leather/wool etc. - this is nonsense. Any clothes or products she already has can't exactly be given back - it makes sense to use them up and just not buy any more.

In terms of skincare and stuff there are lots of good options and she doesn't have to feel limited. Lush has lots of good vegan stuff and google is your friend.

The main of thing is food of course. You'll both get better at preparing it. There are lots of little tricks you'll have to pick up but it's amazing what you can do with no animal products. My boyfriend and I swear by the Pure brand soy butter which lasts for ages and tastes exactly like the real deal. Soy milk can be horrible at first but you can wean yourself onto it (it's worth doing because it's really good for you. I started with strawberry flavour). I also second the comments about picking up supplements because they are pretty necessary at least until she gets into the swing of thngs. I take B12 and a multivitamin on alternating days.

I know this isn't super important but if she does it she's going to want some snack foods (like sweet things, unhealthy ones, there are plenty of cake recipes and stuff online that are good but if she goes to like a sleepover for example and all her friends have snacks then it'd be a shame if she didn't get to join in) and the ones I like that are vegan are jammie dodgers, bourbon creams (the cheap kind, usually), oreos, skittles, crisps (sometimes, not always.)

A good rule of thumb is the cheaper it is, the more likely it is to be vegan. You'll need to stock up on staples - you can do a lot with pasta, rice, lentils, all that stuff. Most importantly make sure she eats enough to maintain a healthy weight. Lots of people initially lose a bit of weight.

Anyway I'll stop now. Good luck to you both!!

Humans are designed to use dairy products as nutrients. A mutation some 8-9 thousand years ago enabled adult humans to process lactose.

For cake baking avocado can substitute for butter

I have followed a vegan diet at various time and found that the main problem was keeping weight on. Make sure her diet is rich in avocados, nut butters, full fat humous, coconut milk and vegan yogurt. It can be a very healthy diet, it just takes rather a lot of thought and effort. At 15, she is old enough for both these to be largely her responsibility. T
The only thing I would be wary of (and apologies if it has already been raised on the thread, I haven't read the whole way through) is the fact that some young people use veganism / vegetarianism as a way of masking eating disorders. If a teenager had already been crash dieting or had body image issues I would be very concerned about a new found commitment to a vegan lifestyle.

Humans are not designed to do anything, because humans are not designed.

Humans have evolved to continue to be able to process dairy as adults, something that most mammals can only do when they are young.

It's not hard to see the benefit in being able to do this.

The ability to do so varies among different people of course, but to say "humans are not designed to eat dairy" is wrong in more than one way.

Evolution is a design process, its called trial and error. There is no designer but there is a process.

Design suggests that there is an end goal in mind, it's a wholly unhelpful and misleading word to use in the context of evolution.