Just lost it with DD !

[maggie39]

DD14 is frankly driving me bloody insane. I am very patient but not tonight, tonight I have well and truly lost it. I shouted and told her I was "Fucking sick of her attitude and being treated like crap in my own home" yes yes I know I shouldn't have sworn but I am livid. This has been building up for months and I try to be patient and consistent but I'm worn out with it. Yesterday for instance it was my birthday did I get a card ....Nope. Did I even get wished a happy birthday.... nope.
She is meant to do chores for money otherwise I found I was just a walking cash machine but then she does no chores and expects me to hand over £30 for a day at an amusement park. She asked two weeks ago I said "Yes , as long as you do XYZ" she said "Ok". I have reminded her daily about the chores expected which are pretty minimal chores nothing needing hours of energy or effort. It was always "I'll do it tomorrow" but tomorrow same story! So now day out is here I make a stand and say DD you have not done XYZ which we agreed. She kicks off in a major way.
Various insults about how shit I am as a mum she'd rather have Anna's mum she is much nicer, I am a disgrace/disgusting, she doesn't want to be here anymore and if I stop her she will kill herself and then I can live with that being my fault forever, I am shit as we live in a small house and can't provide for her etc etc you get the idea!! I walked away she followed and followed and followed.
She is much the same at school. She has anger management and other inputs but she doesn't respond just spits hate as to whatever I have said no to. She has been like this since puberty previously she was sunny natured, polite, hardworking and generally a delight to be with. Occasionally she asks how my day is but I have learnt this is only when she has a request. I always try and make polite conversation but am met with one word answers. I try and chat over dinner but she starts with "I hate this errggghhhhh why have you made this, you know I hate it which is everything bar Macdonalds.
So what the hell can I do?! I feel like I'm living in a battle ground she has social services number which she plans on using tomorrow to tell them I swore and shouted! I love her but don't like her at the moment, her moods are so volatile and constant it is draining and quite depressing! Massive rant over!

So hard isn't it. It's good to share.
They say the key to a good relationship is good communication.
You could try being humble and apologising for your part in this blow up.
" I shouldn't have shouted. Sorry"
Accept any response, even if only one word (or none) and then drop it. I wouldn't give the girl money for an outing given the circumstances.

I did say sorry for swearing afterwards but "Its to late now I've really done it this time" .
This happens all the time regarding the expectation she'll get money for nothing. I think at this age washing up occasionally is quite reasonable but she seems to think washing up two cups is worth £20 minimum each time!
I try and chat but as awful as this sounds she is such a firework at the mo if she does chat its all quite negative about how much she hates school, hates so and so etc. I try and promote a bit of positivity but thats for "goons" !!
Love em

No advice but you sound like a saint to me!

I love the threats.. Let her ring social services to put that threat to bed straight away.

Mine get their child benefit at around that age and out of that they have to use for bus fares to school and whatnot.. If they run out then there's a push bike there to use. Extra money has to be earned by chores and none of this 20 quid for doing the dishes neither.

I don't think you've been out of order by shouting at her and I certainly wouldn't be apologising for it .

I did offer her my phone to call them
She turned that into a major drama as i "obviously didn't want her anymore" a new guilt trip!
I can assure you I am no saint. I think I have tried to hard to make sure she doesn't miss out and I've created a monster
Think it will be a very challenging few weeks till she hopefully gets the i

This happens all the time regarding the expectation she'll get money for nothing

I genuinely don't see why she shouldn't have treat of £30 to go for a day out.

At her age, I'd have thought it a bit harsh if I had to earn literally every penny.

I don't understand the MN groupthink that all post-puberty children need to start earning their way.

They'll be out in the real world earning soon enough.

Does Anna's mum give her money? What about her other friends?

I think apologising for swearing is an excellent start and try the 'how to talk' books, they have a lot of advice on improving communication with teens.

Best of luck, it's a tricky time

Um teenagers with a vile attitude and nothing but complaints and how shit a mother you are do not deserve 30 quid for a treat.

Did you treat your mother like utter garbage then hold your hand out for money buried ?

Two of mine are teenagers at the moment (plus an adult and two little ones). It may not be ideal but entirely human to sometimes shout. If you usually dont swear she will understand on some level that she overstepped the mark.
I am reliably informed that I am the worst parent ever.... Not only do I not pay them for chores, they live here and contribute to the mess, I also expect them to use their paper round money for outings, social activities. I do pay their phones (capped contract), school stuff, sports activities and clothes if they kind of need them.
Dont beat yourself up, but don't be guilt tripped into handing £30 over. Also dont take the birthday personally, they are completely self obsessed but will grow out of it. My son survived me, he can prioritise, budget and look after his household. They do grow out of it eventually. You could try negotiating a set of rules /contract about expectations.

I don't never give her money but its constant requests not a one off. I am not flush by any means and can't afford weekly meals/cinema/shopping trips. I think if she wants extra than a few pounds here and there I think she shouldn't feel its her right but should at least help a tiny bit!
I don't know about Annas mum or care its just a hurtful dig at not getting her own way!

Madwoman I'm glad he came out the other side DD's phase involves NEVER being wrong and I'm glad there are other awful mums out there

No, I was lucky and didn't have to hold my hand out.

I felt valued. Really.

In return, I appreciated what I had and was happy to help out. But I felt, and was treated, like a teenager and not someone obliged to take joint financial responsibility for my activities.

There was plenty of respect, I don't recall anyone being treated like 'utter garbage' on either side.

So a different set of circumstances then?

Out of curiosity, if you had behaved day in and out like what's been outlined in the OP towards your mother.. What would your mother have done?

Mine for eg would have took my head clean off my shoulders.

I don't know. But I do know if she'd expected me to work for money at 14, or 'taken my head off my shoulders' I would probably have behaved very differently.

Anyway, sorry we seem to be derailing somewhat.

Hmmmm I might be more inclined to do handouts daily if a) I had the money and b) she behaved well and worked hard at school.
As it stands she is on report( has been for a year) aquires detentions daily, refuses HW or to work in lessons. Would you still give for endless treats that she doesn't deserve. I am not a "pushy" parent but think basic manners and a bit of effort is ideal. As it stands DD pushes rubbish out of nearest window/under furniture/ in her clothes drawer to avoid walking three steps to the bin as its "lllllloooonnnggggg" .
I won't allow her to treat everyone/thing like utter shit and get unlimited money for treats. Believe me she doesn't miss out but at present why should i work my ass off to fund her fun when she can't lift a finger and i mean a finger not hours of labour.

Maggie, those are pretty serious behaviours, I think that's way beyond post-puberty challenges.

What support is she getting at school to find out why she feels the need to rebel and act out like this?

My apologies if I've sounded flippant and I hope that you can work together to find out why she is unhappy.

I wish you the very best.

Yes she has many professionals involved but engages on her terms only ie it means missing a hated lesson. Then she just "hates" everything. Its hard to help her when she will NEVER accept she might be even a teeny bit wrong. She won't engage with full assesments so rock and a hard place. Professionals all say its like puberty personified by 1000 (very dramatic moments constant) but can't fully investigate.
She was as I said delightful before puberty and things have gone downhill since. The thing I'm relieved but at the same time get pissed off about is that she can be mid-rage to me really going for it then her phone rings and shes all sweetness and light giggling and love yous. Then off the phone back to rage which leads me to believe she can control it its a bit like a big toddler meltdown if she doesn't get her own way or be asked a simple request.My patience seems to have vanished !

maggie39 Hello from another 'worst mother in the world' prize recipient. I have a DS 14 and am familiar with the outbursts you describe, it is horrible but they don't really mean it. As mine says when I ask him about it later, he says 'It's just something I say when I'm angry'. Still it is very unsettling and stressful to live in conflict, I really hope they grow out of it...!

I think you are completely in the right by taking a stand. At the moment I am giving my DS the possibility of earning £2 pr day during the week, one for behaviour and one for doing a small job (such as emptying the dishwasher, sorting the recycling and putting the bins out, tidying his room, stripping his bedclothes etc.) This means he can earn £10 per week. If he doesn't do a job one day, he just gets one pound less at the end of the week. If he swears at me for example, I don't pay him a pound for that day. A few weeks back I never thought I'd see him do any thing in the house, but motivated by the extra cash he is actually making an effort. It is also in small chunks which makes it easier to manage. Some of the jobs will only take him a few minutes, but makes a difference for me.

However mine has never really asked for very much money so it may be different for you, maybe different for girls? If her friends spend a lot of money it is hard being the one who hasn't got any. Still, I think it is important to learn that money runs out and it has to be earned. Would she understand if you speak to her when she is calm and feeling happier?

Also, it sounds like she is having a really hard time. Maybe she is just feeling really bad and that is why she is reacting negatively (complaining about hating school and such and such.) I found out recently that my DS has been feeling really crap (emotionally) and when he does he really struggles with his temper and his behaviour in general. Kind of becomes a bit desperate to be allowed to do things with friends, because he is wanting to escape how he is feeling inside...and then if I say No, it all becomes too much. I would listen into what she is saying when she says she 'hates things' because perhaps they hold the reasons for some of her behaviours...?

Good luck, you are not alone

Thankyou glad I'm not alone!
She seems to hate anyone/thing that challenges her which rules out most adults! When with friends shes confident , cheerful and the life and soul. I can't compete with other parents on money but she gets more than i can afford already in terms of the overly expensive endless trainers, bags, accesories.
I know shes just cross but an apolgy occasionally would be good but she won't aknowledge. If there has been a major meltdown unresolved then theres calm. I might try and talk about the incident and she just goes 0-100 again for bringing it up.
I hope she has a lovely moment soon I'm def ready ! X

An interesting approach I was taught once was, after another's outburst, just to sit and say 'whatever I have done that has contributed to the way you're feeling, I'm so sorry.' And then not speak.

It's amazing what can come out of then when you don't have any expectations.

I understand that you feel she owes you an apology, but I also believe that we have to be the adults and put our ego to one side and reach out and let them know you are listening.

It might take a while, but investment now means that she will always know you will hear her, and that, in the long term, is a real gift.

did that work on your teenager buried and are you seriously saying you would have possibly behaved the same way towards your mother if you had to earn your money rather than have it handed out?

comstamt confrontations with your teenager are seriously knackering OP and of course you can't just dish out a steady stream of money when she demands it.

The only fair thing I can think of is a set amount each week and when it's gone it's gone and any more has to be earned... Like actually earned, not saying they will and you having to remind them but tbh it sounds as if she's an extreme teenager. What do you do when she's raging at you? What will happen if she steps over the mark and goes for you?

I walk away but she does follow its very hard to remain patient as it does border on harassment . She eventually mellowed and I was pretty clear about expectations and she took it on board which she does until I say no again .
I hate to say this but she is just not a very nice character of late. She is very manipulative and I can't do the whole "Sorry for any part i played in your upset". I see how it would work for some but it would just make DD more entitled. If she went for me I do not know what I'd do but I'd hope I'd ring the police.
I've been calm and understanding but its just not working I think she needs some real tough love. There are many question marks and thoughts on DD from professionals but she will only engage on her terms. It is thought she shows symptons for many things (ASD, ODD, Conduct disorder, ADHD) but surely she'd have had symptons if this was the case before secondary school. She has a good group of friends and has been with her boyfriend two years, so its not a universal issue just when you challenge! She does however seem quite bossy with friends and won't put herself out unless theres something in it for her.
She does have moments of being lovely its just becoming more the case these moments are leading up to a plea.
Something I find really odd and no idea what it means but caffeine seems to have the reverse effect on DD. A can of energy drink for instance mellows her out. Coffee helps her sleep!! A very noticeable calming affect but not sure I should ply her with redbull

maggie39 that sounds extremely wearing for you

Two things:
(1) the caffeine issue should be reported to her professionals, particularly a psychiatrist if she has one. It sounds like ADHD where stimulants like caffeine and methylphenidate (ritalin) paradoxically reduce the patient's level of scatteredness and impulsivity by helping them concentrate. I'm not a professional, I don't know much about this stuff, but I do know that i'm vastly calmer, more focussed, and less likely to feel stressed/anxious/angry/depressed when I've had my cup of coffee and my 5mg ritalin in the morning. Ritalin is amazing stuff.

(2) She probably needs tough love anyway, if she can turn all this on and off for different people. There may be mental health issues that need careful management, but not everyone deals with mental health problems by being appallingly behaved in particular situations, most of the people i know with mental health issues are generally very reasonable and nice. Is there anything she could do where she'd be forced to look up to a mentor who could get her to believe a few home truths about how to behave?

Her boyfriend is pretty good he will tell her when she is wrong and tell her to apologise etc. I think she genuinely believes its everyone elses problem and her agenda is her noone else. I recently had to have a minor op and rather than being sympathetic she was livid my op date clashed with a night her friend was meant to be here.
Interesting regarding caffeine its always been an instant calmer. She will not agree to medication she has been offered it she took it once but said it made her feel sick and wouldn't persevere or switch.
I think primary just suited her small classes, same teacher same kids since secondary things have just got worse and worse. By the time shes settled into a lesson and is sitting at last its time for next lesson and whole process begins again.

maggie39 the difficulty of settling down into a lesson also sounds very, very like ADHD.

Do you get the opportunity to talk to her professionals alone?

Ritalin does make you feel sick and headachy the first few times you take it. Once you find the right dose (I was lucky it was half the normal paediatric dose for me) everything feels amazingly good.

However, until she gets past the self-centredness and refusal to take drugs, she's not going to find that one out (and obviously drugs aren't necessarily the answer anyway - they just worked for me), so it sounds like another approach is needed. Is she having any counselling? Could the counsellor possibly talk about what she's feeling when she is rude to you/ nice to her boyfriend? Somehow she needs to take ownership of who she is, and decide to make that the person she wants to be (which requires an idea of where she's going in termsof improving behaviour).

(...Not that I can talk. i've got a thread in chat at the moment about blowing up at my own mother. though she is a bit special...)

I want to express total sympathy. Recognise a lot of it.

A suggestion on the money issue. Rather than "If you do XYZ, I will give you £20", what we've done is something slightly but importantly different, which is to say to dd that instead of either no-strings pocket money, or one big payment for one big task, we will give her lots of mini-opportunities to earn small amounts of money, which if she does enough of them, add up to a decent amount of pocket money. The opportunities are that we pay her small amounts for things we value, not just chores. So a day without a detention is £1; a day where her crap isn't all over the living room is 50p; etc etc. You calibrate the amounts to what you're willing to give her and where you think you can get her to in terms of behaviour. It's not perfect but it is quite powerful because it gets rid of a lot of the arguments. When they demand money you say - here's how you earn it, and it's less binary than her either having £20 or having £0.

Fellow awful mum here.
It is wearing. I have been hoping it's just a phase for 15 months now trying to ride but it seems to be getting worse not better. I have a greta garbo teenage mutant dramallama goady sweary trucker in the house right now and that's just me