13 yr old DD says she is mentally ill.

[frinny]

This is my first post and I hope someone out there can offer some ideas.
I have 2 daughters, one 17 who now lives with her father ( relationship with me bumpy through early teenage years but fine now) and one of 13yrs.
My eldest daughter is Dyspraxic and suffered with low self esteem, anxiety and depression. She missed a lot of school and eventually dropped out and attended Medical Education Unit. She is now waiting to go back to college and life is mostly ok for her. Phew & hurrah!

The problem I have is with my youngest daughter. She has always been happy and lively and very easy to parent. A joy in fact. Over the last year she has become a typical teenager as expected and that is fine. Hormones raging etc. However she has now suddenly started to refuse to go to school and says she is anxious and depressed. She has self harmed on 2 occasions but only very small scratches. (Her sister is quite scarred from self harming in the past)

This is going to sound dreadful...her father and I are not convinced. She is her usual happy self at weekends, during holidays, most evenings. She comes down to eat, she appears to sleep ok, has plenty of energy, washes and looks clean and tidy. No signs of anything serious going on, but could I be missing something?

I have spoken to her school who say she has appeared a bit up and down but is mostly fine. She has a large group of friends she socialises with. She is doing well in classes. All looks good BUT she insists she is anxious and can not attend school. A lot of her friends seem to have various issues and it almost seems, dare I say it, fashionable to self harm and be depressed. Are genuine mental health issues

rife amongst out young people or is a certain amount of it learned behaviour.I feel awful even thinking that, but the thought is there.

I have taken her to our GP, who has referred her to CAMHS due to her sisters history, but feels she will not meet their criteria. She refuses to talk to anyone, teachers, school councillor, family members.

Any ideas on my best approach? I have previously started to turn the WI-FI off at night and today have removed her smart phone as she will just sit in bed texting her friends all day.I have told her she can have it back at school time tomorrow.

I have let her know I am here for her and love her whatever and am ready to listen. I have said I have removed the tech to give her time to step back and reflect on what may be causing this rather than as a punishment. I have explained that I feel too much input from social media and the 'being on show' all the time may be putting pressure on her. I have suggested she try writing down what she is feeling. It all falls on deaf ears. She is very angry with me.

Do you think I am being hard on her? I am concerned that if I remove the tech she may get worse, if I leave her with it she may get worse. Do I go further and say if she will not go to school she can not go out with friends. Is there anything I should be doing that I am not doing? Am I cynical about it or just so terrified of going through it all again that I am in denial?

Anyone out there been through similar and worked out which is wood and which is trees?

Thanks in anticipation.

No real advice except to say I am sorry for you, and sympathise with the view you are taking.

There has been quite a lot of publicity recently about young people and children with mental health issues. I think at 13 there is a lot of peer pressure and silly, learned behaviour. At my daughters school there is probably one girl per year out of 120 with genuine MH issues, and these are very serious indeed.

Does she have exams coming up, is she anxious about that ?

I do think you are doing the right thing by restricting access to social media. Stick to your guns here. Whatever she does she will be angry at you.

Does she have a hobby or interest she can get involved in ? Horses, drama, sport ? Somthing as an alternative to sitting glued to her phone and being encouraged to self berm by others.

And if CAMHS will not pick her up is it worth finding a private counsellor for her to talk to ? She may not want to talk to anyone connected with school.

Good luck and keep us posted.

You need to get her back in to school as soon as possible. Work out a modified attendance plan with the school. Turn off the electronics at night, and limit them during the day. Have her get the work from school and she needs to do it at home. I would make a schedule for her during the day, It can include chores in the house in addition to school work. School refusal becomes a self fulfilling prophecy if it goes on too long.

You say she is very angry with you, do you know why?

Thanks Travelledtheworld,
Even one person saying those words...stick to your guns... makes me feel a bit stronger .It is very hard when you are on your own and they are shouting at you.

She does not have exams coming up and sadly her hobbies these days consist of hanging out with a huge group of others, all dressed in black listening to My Chemical Romance etc. I'm sure you get the picture. They seem to love angst and trauma and drama within the group.

My other daughter was exactly the same and I went through hell, including the whole CAMHS thing, a spell as an in-patient and a very close suicide attempt. She seems to have emerged out the other side and I think, to a point, she herself has been left scratching her head and wondering what on earth she was doing. It appears now that it was never, thankfully, a serious mental health issue, just teenage hormones taken too far. I know that she was aware that even after her overdose she would be ok if she got to the hospital quick enough and got the right treatment.She researched everything on the internet. CAMHS were no help at all. All of us have bad memories of therapy sessions. Perhaps a private counsellor is a good idea as going through all that again should be avoided if at all possible.

Thanks again, especially for sympathising with my view. I can assure anyone reading this that if I thought she was really depressed, I'd be all over it in all the right ways. I just wish I was completely sure.

EE123
I think she is just angry because I am insisting on school as much as I can.
I start work at 7am and my partner sees her off to school. In order to keep their relationship good, which it is, we have agreed that he is not the one to insist or remove privileges. I call her to make sure she is up and getting ready. When she refuses to go (most days now) I call her Dad who then phones and insists on school as well. I then come home from work and succeed or don't. Usually she will go eventually, under duress but today it was a point blank refusal as is the case on some other days.
Luckily my employer has been supportive so far but I am losing money fast as I am not paid when I am not there. This is adding to the stress in the house.
Her father and I are saying exactly the same but she blames me much more. I do not know why. Until this started we were very close.

Sorry, I meant to mention the attendance plan. Sounds like a good idea as I am sure that non attendance does become a self fulfilling prophecy if it continues. It certainly did with my eldest and she regrets it.
Not sure how I could juggle that with my job but kids come first even if I end up living in a box.

Is there an option of her living with her dad, temporarily? Do you think a change of venue would help?

Hi Frinny. I'm sorry that you and your family are going through this. I would like to add another side to the advice already given.

I was your DD nearly 30 years ago. I had a range of issues and even self referred to a child psychiatrist for phobias. I had all sorts of made up injuries to bunk off school. I was bright, doing well at school, had lots of friends. But I was very lonely at home.

My parents loved me and provided for me. But I was the youngest of 3. My two older sisters had significant issues themselves. One has a range of additional needs, the other emotional and mental health needs. These needs exist to this day.

It is only later in life that I now realise that the way I behaved between the ages of 12-14 was because I was never the priority. It was my childish way of trying to find someone to listen when I didn't really know what to say.

I have accepted that I will never be the priority in my family. I hope that doesn't sound like I was a bit of a spoilt brat. It simply means that I grew up with my needs being at the bottom of the pile as I was always seen as so capable, outgoing, independent etc. I was these things because i had to be. I have only ever discussed this once with one of my sisters and she agreed with me.

So my message to you is absolutely insist on school, every day. She must keep the routine. But be careful of going to far down the punishment side. I suspect you may have spent much if the past few years spending your emotional energy on your elder dd being thankful that your younger dd gave you no trouble. Well now its her turn for support, guidance and as much love as you can show. I have read the others recommend the Love Bombing book. I haven't read it myself but I wish my parents had when I was your dd's age.

It isn't impossible but I'm not keen. He lives a rather chaotic life and smokes a lot of weed. My eldest went to live with him because she wanted a no rules household where she could also smoke.
Since then he has taken on the appearance of a man who has been blown up!
I do not think he would relish the idea of coping with another teenager as the penny has dropped and he has realised how hard it is and that no rules causes a whole new set of problems.
I prefer the thought of a household where there is a regular routine and the teenager observes a work ethic etc.
Sounds somewhat dismissive of his efforts as he loves his girls but is not really equipped with the ability to be consistent on his own.

Finola1step
What an insightful post yours is.
I am definitely going to think hard on this.
Although I feel like she was given attention and lots of love and hugs, she certainly was not priority when the eldest was in the middle of it all. Since the eldest left to live with Dad, she has been a priority but maybe it was too little too late. As an extended family we have mentioned the fact that the eldest got so much attention for several years and perhaps the younger may feel it but we have never explored it in depth as she always seemed fine. Now is clearly the time to think further about this.
Do you think I should ask her if she feels she was left to get on with it and would have liked a bit more concern shown for how she was feeling?
I shall look up Love Bombing

Frinny you will get lots more support and advice later this evening as other parents come online.
Meantime here are some flowers and a virtual hug .

Thanks to all of you for your kind words and advice so far. Feel so much better just talking to someone outside of family. An outside perspective is less cluttered with emotion.

I think you have done the right thing and gone to the doctor. You are showing her that you take her concerns seriously, and treating her like a grown up. Also, saying that you love her and are ready to listen is great.

It may be learned behaviour, but thirteen years can have mental health issues.

Perhaps re-introduce the tech if only she goes to school.

Is she worried about the exams?

I think it would be worth telling her that you know it was hard for her when her sister was at home. She may not have the words to discuss this herself. But maybe she has learnt somewhere along the line that being needy is what you do as a teenager.

Be careful not to put words in her mouth though. You don't want to end up with a dramatic performance of "It's all your fault" etc.

It got much easier for me with school when I reached the point that I could choose my options for GCSEs and focus in the lessons I really enjoyed. That was the turning point for me.

My relationship with my mum remains on a practical level to this day. She is a wonderful nan to my dc and I'm delighted for them that she is. But she isn't someone I turn to in times of need. The very few times I have done so as an adult have been very awkward because she simply isn't used to me being needy and doesn't know how to react.

Your DD needs you to react now. In a calm, loving, open and understanding way. Whatever you do, do not send her away from her own home. If she decides to go at 16, her choice. But at 13? No way.

I would also consider looking at her diet in case she is lacking in any vitamins, iron etc. Especially vitamin D the B vits. It will also make her feel that your taking a practical interest in her health and well being.

I have a son who sounds just like your daughter. When he was 13, at the end of Year 8, he was sociable and sporty and mostly happy.

Over the last year, he started to self harm. He has started to withdraw from his friends. He hates school with a passion, although does attend. He is on his phone ALOT. He has an Instagram page about self harm. He listens to MCR, Black Veil Brides, etc etc. He texts a group of about 6 who are all into the same kind of thing. Woe is me. Nobody loves me. How can I commit suicide. How many days clean are you? etc etc

A week ago today, a few days after his 14th birthday, he took an overdose. That failed and we never knew. The next day he did it again and luckily we found out and took him to hospital.

But you have been there with your eldest, so I know you know how it all feels. We just never knew how bad it was, and now, looking back, there were signs.

I guess all I'm trying to say is don't miss the signs. Treat all her concerns genuinely, without anger. She may well be at the beginning of the journey my son has taken. I wish you luck in trying to steer her in the right direction.

Another fantastic post from Finola. I love the others too BTW, all thoughts are welcome.
Interestingly, my mother took a very practical approach to her role and was not particularly nurturing. My brother was very much the favourite and admits it himself to this day. I have tried very hard to not mirror this but however hard I try, I can never say for sure that I have not in some ways been more practical than nurturing. I do not know.

I have just asked my DD if she felt we were all running around after her sister and if she just got on with it because she felt she had to. She said Yes. I have apologised and told her I hear her. I have said that it had occurred to me but as she always seemed fine I had let it go and that it was my mistake but that we can talk about that anytime. My words got a pretty positive response.

Although she has been a grumpy teenager a lot lately, she also will come and start telling me some story about some drama within her friend group without prompting so I do feel the lines of communication are not completely closed. We are still friends sometimes.I do hope she feels she can turn to me in times of need. Her big sister does so very much now. I think that as their father is a big softy to them, I have always been the one saying there are boundaries and not apologising for it. Don't get me wrong, I am not running some kind of boot camp but I am the only one who has ever said No.

I certainly would not want to send her to live with Dad at the moment. You are right Finola..a calm, loving, open and understanding approach is required. If only it was so easy when you are stressed, missing work, worrying about the mortgage and generally unpopular. That's parenting! She has had a blood test at the Docs which would hopefully highlight anything missing in her diet. We eat pretty healthy in my house but I think it is less so with Dad...a lot of take-aways. (She is there for tea twice a week and at w/ends.) I would not want to stop the very frequent time with Dad.

Passanda, I have been there. I hope your son is getting the help he needs. For my daughter it was 6 months in-patient treatment. We thank god for it every day. Its been almost two years since she was discharged and she is doing really well. There is hope.

Thanks Pasanda
You would think that having been through it all before I would know what I was talking about...but I do not. My girls are so different to one another in personality..or do I just think that?
I have talked to many parents along the way who never saw it coming, did not see the signs. In the case of my youngest, I knew the signs but can be fairly sure to say, they have not been there. It has been almost overnight with the arrival of hormones.
I worry that when they get into groups of friends who are all in to self harm and this particular genre of music, they change and their previously thoroughly sensible heads..fall off!
My heart goes out to you so much. I know the questions you are asking yourself. I know you are looking to see where you went wrong. What I also know is I have seen this same thing in so many different kids from all socio-economic backgrounds with all sorts of family set ups. There is no one common denominator here. Have you told your son yet that there is no Black Parade. If you have not come across this idea yet, Google, Black Parade...It is rather scary.
Thinking of you and wishing you all the best Pasanda. PM me anytime if you think I may have some insight for you. I'm a long way down the road with the EMO thing but still struggle with the day to day stuff like getting them to school and perhaps, in all the upheaval emotionally, signs can be missed. I have had some good advice here however. Take care

What a lovely post Frinny - thank you. And thanks too to EE123.

We are a week down the line. This time last week he was on a drip to counteract the effects of paracetamol

It's the insight thing that gets to me. He has NO insight whatsoever that the things he does/who he associates with/what they say etc etc will impact him at all. He thinks he is just caring about his friends. They want to all help each other. Nobody understands.

And the problem is, they all feel this way, so much so that despite two attempted suicides, one night after another, NOT ONE of his friends told an adult - despite knowing both nights what he had done

He had posted a picture of the pile of pills and a vodka bottle on his 'self-harm' Instagram page. He texted the same picture to a few of his friends. THEY DID NOTHING!!

I spoke to his school yesterday who said that now they know about this group and who they are, and having spoken to the children involved, they too are aghast that nobody can get through to them that it really isn't OK.

I know about the teenage brain and all that, but this takes it to a whole new level!

Sorry….thread hijack I think I should start my own..

You need to get in touch with the parents of the other children. You need to ask them to talk to their kids and tell them that if this type of thing comes up they have to tell a parent. Make sure they understand they are not betraying confidences.

Pasanda , DS came to me last year worried that a friend had threatened suicide and about equally worried that telling anyone would break a confidence. I rang the police (to his horror, I must say) and precipitated a bit of a crisis involving parents, mental health teams, police and a spell in a CAMHS unit for the child concerned.

I think he'd just wanted me to sympathise and tell him how to treat his friend, but having been close to that point with his brother I didn't dare leave it. And this friend meant it -- had attempted suicide previously, I now know.

Talking to DS afterwards, we've tried to emphasize that no teenager, however sympathetic, is equipped to cope with someone in a genuinely suicidal state.

OP, would it help if you and your daughter had some time away together, just the two of you? Would she like something like a yoga retreat? I wondered if you two spent time together, though with others to dilute any tension, it might be a way of reconnecting.

Would you have the money to do that this summer?

It would be a way of showing her that actually you do like spending time with her, you'd rather be on your own with her, etc.

If there isn't the money for that, would she do something like running or yoga with you every week? I'm choosing yoga because it's so popular and so good for your mind to wipe it clear of every extraneous thought. My daughter sounds a lot like yours and she's found yoga fantastic for helping her not to dwell on things and for making her feel great.

EE - Oh don't worry. We have had police involvement!

The night ds came out of hospital, I had hold of his phone and could see the KIK messages flying between his friends. Obviously he hadn't been at school that day and they did not know if he was alive or dead! What followed was a series of messages about a 'suicide pact', 'goodbye I love you' texts and general hysteria (all girls). So we called the police. They visited the homes of all the children we were concerned about (according to ds's phone), some at 3am in the morning. Including his Head of Year 9

Since this happened, the school have involved the police, Social Services, CAHMS and called in all the parents. Most are taking it seriously, I know some of the dc have been to see their GP's already.

But the school say the children just don't get it

So, back to the OP - please, please don't let it get this far with your dd. (easier said than done I know!) I really wish I had seen it coming and encouraged his sporty side to continue….

It sounds like you got a whole lot of services involved very quickly. Well done. Not easy sometimes especially getting the schools to participate.

Yes, and I have to say CAHMS have been great too.

Crisis meeting whilst in hospital and a home visit every other day since, and tomorrow he is seeing a Consultant Psychiatrist with a view to starting anti-depressants. All within a week

School have said they will do whatever we want really in terms of re-intergration. Flexitime/fulltime what ever. So all good there too.

Your very lucky. Medication is a tricky thing in a teenager. You may want to keep a journal once he starts. Its also important to remember they take weeks to kick in.