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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Original poster

How hard to you punish 'stupidity'?

78 replies

pasanda · 29/01/2015 13:51

I have just received a call from the headmaster of DS's (13yr old, Yr9) school.

DS has written explicit words on the cover of a friends homework planner. e.g. I love boys, wanker, cunt, I am gay etc etc. He has obviously been caught.

DS was in the head's office when he called me and he was put on the phone to me. I asked him if it was a friends book. It was.

I know DS. He will think doing it was a joke. Apparently the friend thought it was a joke. Basically boys being silly boys. And not thinking of the consequences of being silly. The teenage brain and all that...

As far as I am concerned, it was a stupid thing to do. A stupid thing to do, for which he then got caught. (If he had done it on someones book whom he doesn't like, as a nasty thing, I would be thinking differently btw).

The head told me he was extremely close to an 'exclusion' Shock but as it is, he will be put in isolation for two days. And he hopes I will enforce serious consequences at home. I have called his dad and told him (he doesn't live with us, but good relationship etc) who thinks his phone (ds's lifeline!!) should be taken off him for two weeks.

I am more of the opinion that he is being adequately punished at school (and I know will have been bricking it in the heads office!). I will take his phone off him for tonight, have a good chat with him about it all and then move on.

I am not going to tell my dh because as it is he thinks I am 'weak' with 'no boundaries' with ds when afaic I try to do the trying to understand and then talk approach, rather than the bollocking, sanctions, ranting and raving approach.

Any advice…?

OP posts:
Original poster
pasanda · 29/01/2015 17:45

I also think the head's reaction was OTT. That sort of shouting just won't get ds's respect.

OP posts:
Original poster
pasanda · 29/01/2015 17:47

Gutted.
His dad has just come over and had a chat with him.

He is lying in bed in the dark listening to music and confessed to cutting just now in the shower. I haven't seen it yet, but his dad said there must be at least 30 cuts up his arm Sad

I know he shouldn't have done what he did, but I just know this is going to be a massive set back for him.

OP posts:
Hakluyt · 29/01/2015 17:52

Can I suggest you ask for this thread to be deleted and stqrt another one with the relevant information in the OP? Then you might get advice and guidance from the right people. This obviously isn't just a whether or not a 13 year old should be bollocked for writing rude word on a planner thread.

Unidentifieditem · 29/01/2015 17:58

I'd have a serious talk about how words can really hurt people. Look at some blog posts online from bullied gay boys and maybe some girls too who were made to feel cheap by boys at school through language and behaviour. Make t clear to him that stupid jokes DO impact people,
Perhaps not the "victim" intended. I think he will learn more from that than not having a phone.

Original poster
pasanda · 29/01/2015 17:59

I don't want this thread deleted. I have had some really useful advice.

I didn't mention his self harming in the OP because at that time the head had just called me and it was about how I would deal with him.

The self harm is really a separate issue, I know, but he hasn't done it since the first day back at school when ironically that happened because he had been sent out of french.

It all seems to be tied up to stuff that happens when he is at school.

OP posts:
Hakluyt · 29/01/2015 18:02

Well, OK. But if I had a child who was so unhappy he self harmed I wouldn't want advice or suggestions from people who didn't know that.

PeaStalks · 29/01/2015 18:12

He sounds like a very sensitive child who is unhappy at school. Is it normally so disciplinarian? Threatening exclusion for something like this is just so completely out of proportion.

MarianneSolong · 29/01/2015 18:13

When I worked on a phoneline for a particular group of distressed clients, the training we were given was that the cutting was a way of coping with/attempting to control feelings that felt unbearable/uncontrollable.

(Sorry. That might be stating the obvious.)

Are there other ways your son can attempt to cope with the things that are making him unhappy?

Are you and your ex and the teacher able to work together not just to put down appropriate boundaries with regard to behaviour, but to support him?

Original poster
pasanda · 29/01/2015 18:22

Peastalks - I agree. Exclusion would, imo, have been totally inappropriate.

That is why I have only taken his phone off him for one night. I actually think that going on it and conversing with his friends is one of his support mechanisms when he feels so down, and I do feel guilty for taking that away tonight, although at the same time I felt I had to do something!

Marianne, his psychotherapist is helping him with ways of dealing with his feelings. He seems to think that the trigger to his self harm is not school at all though. After tonight, I'm not so sure…

He just seems to have a real problem with getting told off at school and the consequent feelings this invokes. He is a bit of a jack the lad and does answer back sometimes so mostly it's his own fault he gets into trouble. He just can't seem to deal with the consequences of his actions though.

OP posts:
azA99 · 29/01/2015 20:04

My daughter and her friend did something stupid (it really was) and offensive on Twitter. She lost her ipad and her phone for a while until her friend, the school, and the person offended/whose privacy was breached were all told. The school did the opposite to yours - they said 'oh it seems harmless'. It was a school-issue ipad, and so I thought they should know or care. The parents of the other friend were concerned and interested but didn't want to meet up and thought I was over-reacting.

I do think offensive language is a really important lesson to learn about, and that it is (and can contribute to) a kind of violence. The 'only messing about'/'they're just typical kids' argument is very popular. It's a shame the head teacher was so very hardline and perhaps a bit unhinged, but it helps you to look reasonable! I think it's a great age to learn unequivocally that language and 'joking' hurts and can be very dangerous. But I've been told I'm very over-political and preachy. I agree with the previous poster that you have the chance to be the kind, concerned Mum here. As a feminist and a gay mum, thanks for teaching your son to grow up to think about words. We need more thoughtfulness.

youarethequarry · 29/01/2015 20:49

Hakluyt - no I never found the c word offensive to women despite it being an offensive word for female genitals in the same way I don't find bollocks offensive to men. I'd really never taken it to be anymore than a swear word and one I have used on occasion without attempting to cause offence to women en masse. Like I said, you live and learn.

Original poster
pasanda · 29/01/2015 20:52

I agree youarethequarry.

It is an offensive word per se, not just to women. I wouldn't consider dick, prick or cock offensive to men either - just swear words.

I have been the concerned mum tonight.

He's not a bad kid really. Like he just said, it was 'banter gone wrong - big time'.

OP posts:
ChillySundays · 30/01/2015 13:44

Boys do silly things without thinking and as long as they have consequences and learn that it is not appropriate and don't do it again. He already been punished by the school and isolation is not a soft punishment.

Fleurdelise · 30/01/2015 14:26

I think Head was OTT. While I understand that "gay" can be offensive, very offensive, the other child did not complain about it as being offended but you DS got caught. I am not saying it is ok if you don't get caught I am saying that 13 yos are a bit silly and don't understand the implication of what they say, not because they are homophobic but because these are the jokes going around.

How are the words he wrote making him a misogynist though? Confused

I would just chat to him seriously about the "gay" stuff and explain that people can be very offended by the use of this word. Other than that I think he already had a miserable day so no need to go on about it.

Original poster
pasanda · 30/01/2015 14:49

I agree Fleur.

I did talk to him about homophobia and use of the word gay last night and I could tell he was flabbergasted I would relate what he had done to being homophobic. It was clearly a stupid thing to do and his mistake is he got caught!

I too agree the head was OTT. It is a very academic school and has high expectations/standards but when the Head throws a planner against the wall then demands that ds picks it up, then yells at him to 'get out' it does make me wonder….

(I think the Head needs to read Get Out of my Life…!)

OP posts:
MarianneSolong · 30/01/2015 15:05

It's about insulting someone by questioning their masculinity.

To be gay, by that way of thinking, is not being a real i.e. straight man.

You also question their bloke-status by implying they as a person equate to a women's genitals.

You further question their sexuality by saying they're not able to find a (heterosexual) partner and therefore are a 'wanker'

Fleurdelise · 30/01/2015 15:38

Should we wait until the other kid decides if he felt his sexuality has been questioned, if he felt his masculinity was diminished and so on before we interpret the way we BELIEVE the other kid felt like?

I think sometimes politically correct has gone mad, I agree we should not call somebody gay to insult them, but I personally believe OP's DS was just making some stupid jokes and more than likely the other kid found it funny or even if not so at least the other kid probably didn't even think he should feel like his sexuality is under scrutiny.

Not saying it is fine, just saying that instead of explaining the kids nicely when they have made a mistake we choose most of the time to overreact and treat them like complete criminals. They are still learning you know...

Fleurdelise · 30/01/2015 15:40

Saying that, now off to have the "gay" word discussion with my 13 yo DS as I know he is not homophobic but would probably do something stupid like posting on his best friend's FB account "I am gay" for a joke.

Mavericklovesgoose · 30/01/2015 15:46

How is using cunt misogynistic?Confused

MarianneSolong · 30/01/2015 15:48

Well people used to feel it was fine to call non-white people in their circle 'p*i' or n**er'.

And if objections were raised, well that was just political correctness gone mad.

(It's a school. It was an item used for school work. It was somebody else's property. Not the place for insulting language, however much people might wish to argue about exactly how major the insults were.)

Fleurdelise · 30/01/2015 15:49

My question too!

Fleurdelise · 30/01/2015 15:52

The objections were raised by non-white people first I believe. They are the ones who felt insulted. In this case there is a big chance the other kid didn't feel insulted at all hence it was not him who complained about it.

Coyoacan · 30/01/2015 15:52

Maybe the head teacher has issues, like him or someone he knows being bullied for being gay in secondary school.

He may not have understood the context of the writing, but children do get horribly bullied for such things.

Mavericklovesgoose · 30/01/2015 15:52

Marianne, I agree its swearing and insulting, but it's not misogynistic. Not at all comparable to racist language either

Fleurdelise · 30/01/2015 15:53

I feel like I am finding excuses, I repeat, it is not right to use the word gay as an insult. But instead of the Head explaining the child why it is an insult he reacted like the kid committed the crime of the century. Exclusion?!?