Delusions of Grandeur/daughter trying to be too Posh.

[azA99]

I'm sure this has happened to other people. Help!

My daughter switched to a sixth form with a different set of people and instantly started to try and keep up with the joneses. First of all, there was a school trip offered which I could barely afford, and which she didn't admit to me she could attend as a subsidised (ie poor) student - I suppose the stigma? I found this out later, after we'd got the money together & paid in full. To be fair, she worked for over £100 of this herself.

Technology and so on have been a problem, but she's got a weekend job now and has this under control so she could get the 'right' kind of phone, and she also has organised for herself the 'right' sort of clothes, bag, etc. She's about to turn 18, is saving her wages to throw a fancy party (!?!), and has asked me to pay for her flight for a holiday with these posh kids this summer as her present. She's saving for the remaining costs. So far, so good.

I've just found out the school are doing another trip abroad this year, and both myself and her dad can't contribute and she's telling me that this is shameful and she's upset. I pointed out that she could have had the birthday flight for the school trip and not the mates-holiday. They are a gang of kids who get this non-stop money from their parents. All year long. constant foreign holidays, festivals, phones, clothes, you name it - and none of them seem to work. She's the only one. I really feel for her, but her fury at trying to keep pace makes her very angry and often very snooty. I'm not ashamed of my income and my politics. How have others coped with this stuff? I just hold firm. I try not to start preaching about these families who can afford to (or who can justify) throwing this much money at their entitled young adults, or to recommend that she finds less spoilt friends. I've made this mistake and it made everything worse. This is the hardest part - wondering what on earth she sees in them. I know it must be painful to hear parents say 'when I was your age...' - so I'll say it here now! When I was her age, all my friends worked and paid for everything themselves. argghgh. I wonder if it's the current climate. Who knows.

to put this into perspective - I live in a part of London where the divide between rich and poor has recently become more extreme. Yes, I'm so proud of her. She's amazing and I love her lots. The posts really help, thanks so much.

and yes - usualsuspect333 - it's a very recent change and only with certain 'friends', but it looks like they're not really 'friends' . I don't have a house, I have a council flat, and the people she brings over are the ones she's happy and relaxed with. The ones she wouldn't bring, and who wouldn't come - this is perhaps just a very new insecurity about certain people she must be impressed by, and like people have said, this is all part of growing up. I have to try and keep the opinions to myself, cos it will make those people more desirable!

She will see through those people eventually.

Just try and hide your chip until she does

Yes, I will! This is the conclusion I've come to from these replies!

First and foremost I think you should be proud of her work ethic . All credit to her for realising you can't fund it all and, in the main, if she wants something she has to work for it.

As for the rest of it... She's young. She will probably look back and cringe a bit but at the moment she can't be blamed for not understanding that life isn't about keeping up with the Jones' etc. And she'll soon realise that these 'friends' aren't worth it. In the meantime id stand firm on the trip but try not to preach too much and she'll find her own way.

Oh and the best bit was my DD asked me to try and change my speech in her boyfriends company as I sometimes sound a bit "chavvy"

Ha ha lucy: my DS asked me if I could possibly 'sound a little less posh'.

OP -- your daughter probably doesn't realise it but her new friends may well consider you the epitome of cool. It's hard being young and worrying about these things. But, whatever you do, don't come across as being judgemental about her friends.

I would put money on the fact that these friends haven't been to your house because your DD is embarrassed, not because they're refusing to come. Surely there is no one in the world who would refuse an invitation because 'you're poor'!

My DS has a lovely friend, who he's known for about 10 years. He's been to our house umpteen times but DS has never been invited to his. If we pick him up in the car, he's waiting outside.

He has five siblings and lives in a council house, and now I'm wondering whether his mum - who blanks me - thinks DS has refused to visit.

Of course some kids can be awful. These come in all walks of life - posh, middle class, working class etc etc. nothing wrong with exposing your d to other ways of life. She is working hard to achieve what she desires. Good on her. Nothing wrong with her not getting it all. Don't feel guilty about that.

Is she at a state school?
We're the opposite, comfortably off & my DSs are reticent about inviting new mates round because we might be 'too posh'.
FWIW both have jobs and pay for the fripperies that we refuse to.

oh, these replies have really helped. lucydaniels - oh no! That's terrible. I remember working somewhere a bit glamorous when I was 19 on reception and someone in the company made me promise to keep her mum in reception so she could hurry down and steer her away. I never imagined I'd become that not-posh-enough mum myself someday!

My daughter is at state school, yes. It's in a rich area, her last state school wasn't and none of this stuff came up but she said she was much more unhappy there. I used to find it easier, though, because the other families had similar incomes to us. She's doing a Classics A level and the other kids who've taken the A level are fairly well off, not one of them can't afford the trip to Rome. It's all about this trip to Rome.

When we had more money, I took my daughter to Rome on a sleeper train when she was 12. So she's not been deprived in her life! I tried reminding her of it this evening and that I'd helped her be quite 'posh' myself, in the past, but I just couldn't do it anymore. She said 'you've never helped me be posh and you've never done anything for me'.

she was home educated until she was 13.....which I suppose is a kind of 'posh' thing to do itself. And it's rather more the case that I've done everything, perhaps even too much (?) for her. I'm starting to see that she was very privileged and now that she isn't she's having to work thru a lot of complex thoughts, and I just keep telling her that I'm really proud of how she's doing this. But she made me cry my eyes out this evening with that comment. I met her in a cafe and had to leave, and all the way home I couldn't see for crying, which makes me feel like a real fool. That chip on my shoulder is a bigger problem than I thought. And I need to learn to shrug off those typically teenage comments. Just when I thought I was getting better at not letting it get to me!

Oh dear. It really sounds like you have real sensitivities about income and what you can pay for for her.

The thing is. There's ALWAYS somebody richer than you. People gravitate into groups who can find a similar lifestyle / interests but you can't always do everything that everybody else does. Your dd needs to learn that herself and you need to work on your over-sensitive streak about that.
Also, mixing ideas about "posh" and politics with income level isn't useful. Not all posh people spend money profligately and not all big spenders are posh.

I don't think I have mixed-up ideas about posh and politics. That seems a bit patronising. I'm certainly over-sensitive, but I don't think that's such a bad thing. It's hard not to be really sensitive about income when you've gone through a few years of not having enough to eat and skipping meals and walking instead of getting the bus while you sort everyone out and keep everything ticking along. It tends to make you quite sensitive, but I'm okay with that. I think it's a good over-sensitive and perhaps a coming back to life after being desensitised to the reality of things....and I'm not sure it's me who should try so hard to change. I think that's what I'm fed up with: this idea that the poor are the problem (or malfunctioning) if we ever object to inequality.

What I know I've got wrong is providing too much in the past so that the fall from grace is harder. My lesson is learned!

I was actually trying to help! I had a very modest upbringing though not breadline poor I'd never been abroad or had hobbies that cost (sports etc) and then I went to a uni dominated by kids from the most expensive private schools. Some were "posh" others were just rich. Some were entitled idiots and some were lovely despite never wanting for anything in their lives.
I had to learn to deal with it and where I could and could not fit in and so does your dd. Of course you can be as over sensitive as you like and have every reason to be big it's not going to help your dd or the tension between the two of you.

But sorry for my last post. I oncioudly pissed you off. Didn't mean to.

it's ok. I'm not at all pissed off with any of the posts here, but it's certainly lonely to raise your kids with very little. And exasperating. She was hoping for a free place on the trip to Rome, but I don't qualify as poor enough - I work and we're not a 'free school meals' family anymore, although we have been. I could have paid for the trip as her 18th birthday present but she chose another trip to Sicily - she really has done okay in life I think. She's not spoilt, but I think she wishes she was, and she's experimenting with acting like how she thinks a spoilt kid acts, but bless her, she's not really pulling it off.

She did spend £100 on having her hair done the other day. £100!!!!!

My mind boggles. It's her money. I didn't judge or make any preachy comments! But she could have put it towards this school trip. I'm sorry if I'm being grumpy, but I suppose I'm sick of thinking about money when I think the truth is I don't much care as much as I'm supposed to. Is that bad?

As for you not being abroad - this is what I wish she could hear from some decent adults like yourself. I don't think it's 'normal' to go abroad every year, with the school or without. But I suppose people differ in their opinion on this!

The thing is, your dd sounds as though she has had some brilliant life experiences in her short life. I grew up in a very poor family, but money was literally pissed away. It taught me to be frugal, selective when buying. In the past, I've frequently walked instead of taking public transport, but I've also travelled the world and worked hard for it.

I do really think your daughter is ace! And she is learning about how life is different for others - who wouldn't wish for an easier life! But I am sure this is fleeting and I bet she is very grateful for what she has. I seriously think she will make you proud.

I can only hope my dds grow up to be so sensible. To recognise that they will only get something if they contribute towards it. £100 for a haircut, well she may as well do it now. I'm sure if she had kids, her choice would be different, just like yours have been. She's being a teenager, but I really think you can see how sensible she is underneath it all.

Dear imip,

your message has made me so unbelievably happy and proud, and everything has been put back into perspective. How very very kind and wonderful you are. Thankyou.

Completely not the topic - but I'm fascinated by your homeschooling until 13 - I bet you gave her a fantastic foundation for life and some great experiences!

Did she find she felt it made her stick out a bit when she started? Or only for a few weeks? Did it take long to settle in academically?

We flit with the idea now and then!

Blimey, some of the responses here have clearly come from a defensive position: the OP is "old", has a "chip of her shoulder", people with money have "worked hard" for their standard of living (unlike the rest of us lazy feckers, I expect, who don't know what hard work looks like?) and so on and so forth.

I think if I was in your position, OP, I'd be simultaneously infuriated with and proud of my DD - infuriated with the "shameful" accusations, and proud that she'd working to contribute to what she wants.

I understand how she feels - most of my friends at secondary school were richer than me, and it gets very tiring always being the object of a bit of teenage condescension and pity, however well-meant - but at the same time, she has to learn that she isn't always going to be able to keep up with the Joneses, and it needs to start now.

It's genuinely meant az...

I'm not sure I like the subtext of suggesting that its good as she'll get a taste for materialism/cosumerism and so will work hard/get a "good" job to be able to keep up with the Jones when she's older.

I didn't see that, ANewMein, more like if you want something you have to contribute towards getting it, coupled with there are some things that will remain unaffordable, however hard you work, and you have to know that's always going to be the case.

I don't think anyone is saying that, ANewMein. The way I see it is that people are saying it's good that she's realised that if you want something you have to work for it (and of course that isn't suggesting that people with little money don't work, just that you can't have something for nothing). In general people are saying that she will realise life isn't all about material possessions and money.

ANewMein....

She did find it hard, yes - because the first school she went to was a 'sink school', so it was kind of one extreme to another. She'd had a very protected, dreamy existence, and then she got a big shock (some very violent bullying, not towards her, but having to witness it) and I thought she'd realise how lucky she'd been. I think now one of the things she's throwing at me is that the homeschooling was a daft thing to do, and didn't prepare her for peer pressure. However, I think the opposite, and I think she's dealing with peer pressure really well because she had so much freedom til she was 13 and this gave her a lot of thinking time. She got to get up when she liked and do as she pleased until then, and now she can't. I think I have mixed feelings about homeschooling because it is its own sort of selective schooling, really! That said, the autonomous/unschooling route - if you can see it all the way through - yes, I do believe in it. I've seen it work for families who can afford it, and by 'afford it', I mean if there are two parents, it's do-able, even on a really low income. For single parents, I think it's impossible. There were various cuts and welfare reforms and it wasn't possible for me to continue with it. But if I knew then what I know now, I must confess that I'd have tried to find a way, though. I'm a real school-sceptic.

I realise that all of this sounds contradictory, and that's because I think a lot of the class politics around school is contradictory, and exasperating. I don't think there are any right answers. I agree that most of the ideas we are taught about fitting in/buying the right things are worth questioning. And I think that school is there really just to coerce us to do those things, and not to learn and to think and to discover. I am afraid I do.

I stood out at school for being too posh and my dh stood out at school for being too working class. Neither are easy, it's fine to stand out because you want to, very different if you have no choice.

I've no idea of the OP's circumstances, but clearly not that long ago something changed very dramatically and her dd's privileged (and very different to the norm) life changed radically. I wonder if her current issues stem from that in part, IME teenagers find it easy to rage against their parents and hard to understand choices they make or are forced into. Sometimes you just need to wait until they get a bit more life experience and can empathise better.