School refusal

[chinup2011]

Well here I am again... Ds in GCSE year refusing to attend. I've been here before, it's been ongoing for two years, every (and I mean every) morning I'm on tenter hooks, cojoling, encouraging, forcing, demanding, whatever it takes to get him there. Sometimes we succeed and about one or two days a week we don't.

I've been to meetings where I'm now at the stage where if he is not in school I am fined. I have been honest with the school but now he says he's ill ( feigning illnes) and I can't afford to be fined.

He has no ambition to do any job, or go to college. He won't see a Doctor, he says there is nothing wrong, no bullying, he is happy, just hates school. No amount of threats, taking things away, incentives for attending makes a difference, his answer is - I don't care Mum.

A mentor is talking to him at school but as far as I can gather he is being very brusque with him, brushing it off as a waste of time.

I'm so stressed about this, I'm worried about his future ( never mind exam results) just what is he going to do, and the fact that I will get a criminal record for not getting him there! I'm a LP and sole bread winner. This is hard.

Very bright teens, find school difficult for all sorts of reasons. I agree that he should at least see an educational psychologist so there isnt something else going on in terms of ASD traits etc which maybe he doesn't even realise, especially if he offered to work at home. Its not a doctor and may advise he continue a career in computers, so he might be persuaded to to take part, as it shows him his strengths as well as weaknesses, academically and socially.

Schools are under a lot of pressure for attendance and certainly in our case did not realise my DD was struggling with dyslexia and ASD traits, because she was very bright.which made the social and emotional side of school very hard but she didn't understand why she found it so tough.

I wonder its fair for school to say he is lazy without an ed psych opinion if he does not have behavioural issues at school and is making it in 3 days a week. Ask them what he is doing well as well as what he is failing at and try to remind of him the positives if you can.

If there is anything to pick up on a WISC4 assessment , any document from a professional would help you reduce hours and gcses etc and if necessary do exams via a pupil referral unit . This will be a route which will get him support if he does have problems with gaming.

If he can get his minimum 5 gcses, there will be more choices later and he can add gcses and A levels at the same time in college and study computer courses, gaming design etc if that's what he want s to do . The Wisc 4 helped us get LEA funding for a much smaller school where my DD reengaged with education after a battle with depression and she is now at University .

If you can get him through to 16 and open his eyes to how different college is and the courses on offer. After our experiences, I tend now to feel there are many ways for teens to find the right education and get motivated. He just needs to be in some form of education or training until 18, not school, so the pressure on you for attendance will drop although the difficulty of managing him at home will not. The challenge is helping him find something which will get him out of his bedrrom and engaging with education in some way.

Do look after yourself however, and maybe some CBT via your GP will give you a place to rant and manage all these negotiations over the xbox. I found CBT helpful for communication strategies and to manage my own emotions. .

Thank you anthropology your post is very interesting. I have a couple of questions; what is a WISC4?
How would I access an Educational Physcologist?
Thank you everyone for all your replies.

Interested that previous poster mentioned child with ASD who has the same problem. Our dd has ASD and also hates school (though does actually go). Any chance that could be the issue here?
Also encourage the suggestion of Xbox in return for school attendance. We did a similar deal with dd: the deal was you get your phone in return for staying in contact with us (used to be terrible, never answered phone when out, never told us where she was - got much better when phone got removed once.)

Interesting... I would say his behaviour could fit this now ( although I have no qualifications to diagnose of course) but prior to about 2 years ago I would not have suggested ASD at all.

Educational psychologist assessment is around £700. And the school won't take any notice of what they say if you pay for it privately. Not that you'll necessarily get a result that is in the least way helpful, either.

waiting list for what? Who? CAMHS? They won't see him, being a lazy arse doesn't = mental illness. Maybe if you could make a case for him being very depressed. EdPsych on NHS or depression treatment is a matter of getting referred via GP.

Hi,
Sorry this is my first reply in a long time.

OP I totally sympathise with you and my teen (14, boy) is similar on many levels, Xbox, behaviour, attitude ect. However he will go to school without much fuss but his behaviour and attitude in school is atrocious. In fact, I've been in a meeting this morning about this and he still threatened another pupil with scissors in his last lesson as he was punched in his arm following the MMR immunisation today by the same boy.

He has moved school last December as he was pretty much the same in his last school but they didn't support him that much and was similar to yours now, not much help/support. The current one is much better.

I'm at my wits end, just don't know what to do next. All I've done all day is cry.

Sorry, not much help.
A x

I would put it in writing to the school that you are trying to get your son to attend but he is refusing, and asking for their help. I would also if possible drag him to the GP.

See the EOW as your friend not enemy (okay they may be useless, but some are good). If you are doing all you can to get him to school, and that includes dropping him there late, very late if necessary. Then it is very unlikely you will be fined. Anyway if the school/LA do not try to help you can go to people like SENSOS! to get support.

Try to get a referral for ASD, or at least to CAMHS - if he expresses suicidal tendencies then get him to A and E.

He is showing signs of depression - get this noted by your GP (getting actual help can be harder).

At this kind of age (unlike a 5 year old) you can't force them to go to school. Similarly what you can do is limited, he has legal rights and is probably bigger and stronger.

(Oh and ignore lljkk - who probably has no idea of what you are going through.)

Does lljkk not also have a child in the same position?

I agree though that getting things in writing is a great idea. Ask the school to put their position in writing as well - I am just not sure they can refuse to help.

With us we would need to offer ed psych input if a child refused to attend as they are the service who direct our next moves. We also discovered recently that the most efficient way of getting a CAMHS appointment is to self-refer. Much faster than school.

Any communication you have with the school copy in to the head of education and the gp. I am not sure how the fines work as we don't have them but I would have thought that if you are proving action then they can't fine you

You have my sympathy And It always amuses me when posters say ' well remove everything electrical'. The stress of living with a complex teen is horrendous and I am also living it (my son is 17 ASD and severe mental health problems) oh and sometimes 6th form refuser.
I am not saying pussy foot around him but it's important for all your sakes to have a good relationship. Have you started looking at colleges? Maybe a course will inspire him?
The school should agree a reduced timetable we have lots at our school on them.

Thanks for your replies. I'm sorry momt2, I know how you feel. It is so hard.
I've been thinking about all the replies and trying to put together a plan, as I'm so stressed, tired, and tearful but also trying to work and I can't keep it up anymore. I need something to work towards. I'm going speak to the school again and also write a letter. The trouble is I think his problem is just lazyness, stubbornness, pushing the boundaries and involvement of CAHMS may not be the correct route. I do need more support from the school - someone to sit him down and just tell him that's the law.
I'm so tired.

See you GP, first for yourself - if only to get your symptoms noted, but he may be able to offer some support for stress. But also if at all possible take your son there.

I might well have said similar things about my DS 2 years ago, however now having been through the tough love, I have a very different take on it.

Two key questions that might help you: a) what does he do? Is he going out all the time, having fun, and hanging with his mates? Or just becoming more and more introverted/withdrawn?
b) If he was a girl would you react the same way?

Hi mummytime you have come through this? On a day to day basis what did you do?
Thank you for your comments up post too.

RTFT Mummytime.

We ended up realising there was something wrong - it wasn't just laziness. Actually I feel very very guilty - which led to my question about if he was a girl, because if my DD acted like this I would be taking her to the GP and campaigning for help.

We have taken baby steps, and had to choose what was crucial and what wasn't. The biggest thing we did was move his computer out of his room, so he has to leave it and interact with the family. We use supplements. Fortunately I am mainly a SAHM, which means I can be around. I'm trying to get him to speak to the NEET team in person, but he is slowly getting better - we just have to keep plugging away.
I don't have wisdom, as we're not out the other side yet.

Oh and I did get my own health issues dealt with.

lljkk - sorry if I misunderstood you. CAMHS is not the same everywhere - but getting to see them can be hard - but sometimes they are helpful.

The WISC4 is the name of the educational assessment which may reveal if he has hidden learning difficulties despite being bright.. Its often the case as school work becomes more analytical, around 14/15 many young people reveal learning issues and schools often miss the signs. As they have coped up to that point, teens don't understand why its getting so hard, and in my DDs case the stress contributed to depression.

We accessed the report, which at the time cost about £500 through a dyslexia charity, who paid for it when I was asking everyone for help with understanding my DDs depression. No one else ever noticed the challenges my DD faces as she looks 'normal'.

It was the only piece of paper which helped get back into the right education as camhs evidence was vague and unhelpful, despite my DD spending time in hospital. In your case, if you need to access it privately, it would give you an understanding if there is something more making it harder at school , and if generally he needs more support and encouragement . In any case give you a good idea of his personality and strengths and will give him confidence to think about what he is good at, as the negative spiral at school won't be reminding him of what he can do....

If his brain works a bit differently, getting the school to lay down the law might not have the right effect for example. Also over 16 the same assessment can be used to get extra support through A levels and Uni too. If under 16 a top up is sometimes necessary after A levels. A very well regarded London ed pscyh is Katherine Kindersley and her team.

please go to the GP for yourself and get some CBT support.

lljk - ed psych reports will help you with camhs, if necessary and if its indicate he has, for example, asd traits or other learning difficulties, he can apply for extra time and help at school.

Thank you for all your suggestions.
I have spoken again to the school, and a meeting is to be arranged.
I am having a bit of respite though; it is mock exam week and he quite enjoys exams. Well I hope I will be having a respite that is - it is only Monday and he went in without any problem this morning. It was an amazing feeling and I managed to get so much more work done today and feel far less drained.

OMG chin up are you talking about my DS. i (we- his useless dad) are in a similar situation. Ds been in and out of school for past 2 years, he lives with his dad because his friends are near by, but they dont get on, to cut a long story short DS has been in 3 different schools in last 12 months, he came to stay with me for 6 months due a big breakdown inhis relationship with his dad, i managed t get him to school for the majority of that time, but 2 weeksa before schools hols he just stopped going, school were really good......come end of school hols he decided to stay with his dad (i was too strict,when in fact i just had rules adn boundries in place) so dad got him back into another school... he went for a few weeks, and up until today he hasnt been for 2 weeks. we have tried every one, SS, CAMHS, School liaison team, no on is interested because he wont engage, ss say he isnt a priority becasue he isnt at risk. As a family ( i live 100 miles away) we are struggling, if confronted he gets angry, verbally and physically aggressive, ( i have called the police), last week his dad was at end of tether and told him to get out, he then went missing for 48 hours no contact (he is 15) so i called police again, he was eventually found. he lays in bed all night, ive told his dad a 100 times to turn internet of when he goes to bed (but he hasnt) and if ds isnt in school to take internet connection box out of house. DS as stopped socialising, life is hell for all of us.....like you what do u do next, every day is a living hell!!!!

so here is a big hug, a coffee (strong) and role on better days

Omg! Sounds like my life! I have no advice as I am stuck in same situation and every avenue seems to be no help, just thought I would say I completely understand the continual stress and anxiety we experience, I really feel for you.
If it's any help we had a camhs referral and although they haven't waved any magic wands or giving me any ongoing support they have written to the school and we haven't received any fines as a result as my child has been diagnosed with general anxiety disorder. Behaviour Sounds completely like your son
Take care
Xx

My ds (15) went to school on Monday and Tuesday and I was on a high. Today he didn't (a social thing he couldn't face).

Now he's not tired and says he won't sleep, so how can he go in tomorrow?

If you haven't been through this, it seems so easy - take away the computer, 'make' him go etc.

School, GP, CAMHS, CBT, love, threats - we've tried everything.

I'm so worried for his future.

Hello Baileymum I'm sorry you are going through this too. I wish I had the answer. We are still in the same situation, he will leave school this year after his GCSE's- we are counting down the days. This evening as we said goodnight; he was sounding down and after I said what's wrong? He said I hate school, I replied with - you haven't got long; just get those exams and you can leave, he said - I just don't care Mum.

We have received our final warning that if he doesn't attend I will be fined and I think tomorrow will be a difficult one. I am in contact with the school and they just reiterate that it is my responsibility to get him there. He has detentions for getting in late. I've had two meetings which have resulted In DS promising to attend but then reneging. CAHMS have not been mentioned. He is considered an able but lazy boy and I guess the teachers are just busy.

It has left me feeling weak and quite honestly useless, I'm not a shouty person and im exhausted with it all.

I've had this every day bar 5 for two years six months and I'm losing it.
Nothing will change him, bribery, encouragement, taking away tetchy stuff, removing Internet access, I've tried it all.

to all those of you going through the same, it is soul destroying.

thanks for digging up this thread, OP and Baileymum. It was JUST what I was looking for!

How did it go today chinup2011?
It's so horrible isn't it, no-one seems to understand, I have lost so many so called friends as they just don't understand why I just can't drag him there! It affects everyone in the house, mine is only 11 I don't think I can face another 7 years :(