naughty 13 year old dd! advice needed

[lucydaniels4658]

My DD is 13 and has always struggled academically the problem is she used to try now she doesnt even bother trying ever! She used to be very sensitive about her academic achievements but was polite and followed staff requests ! She has been on report for months on end and just continues to get worse ! In other ways she is a very sensible teenager i have no concerns on any huge rebellion (smoking ,drinking boys ect!) she is generally ok at home she is very lazy with helping out aroundthe house and would rather spend 24/7 with friends anddoes the whole "your the worst mum ever bit " when i say no (pretty average i think!!)! She is drawn to very strong characters who eventually tend to chip away at her confidence eventually more or less bullying her !I have tried to guide her but she doesnt listen im hoping she will learn her lesson or just become better at standing up for herself! Ithink all the anger she feels socially are taken out on me and the teachers !She backchats teachers constantly accuses them of "picking on her" if they challenge her behaviour ,talks to her friends non stop ,is hyperactive in class and very rarely produces any work announcing she cant do it as soon as she sees it she says shes "thick and stupid " daily ! She has made no progress result wise for 3 years and im really worried for her future ! The teachers are very negative with her but she needs to learn to do it for herself rather than for the teachers !She views it as "you hate me so not doin your work" but really shes punishing herself! At home she is quite compliant well as much as any teen girl but requires an immense amount of reassurance over everything and gets very anxious about friendship issues !I really dont know what to do to motivate her !

Does she do any type of activity outside school? Have you tried to interest her in any?

IME (3 teens 14-18) groups outside of school are excellent for discipline and also for creating pride in activities well done. Depending on where you are there are plenty of organisations to choose from:

• music schools (our local ones are run by the county music service)
• youth theatre groups (enquire at local theatres)
• army/air/sea cadets
• Red Cross/St John's Ambulance

My DCs have attended a few of these. Our rule was that they attended a taster session then if they liked it and wanted to join then they would have to commit to completing basic training/first term/whatever. That got them over the CBA that comes in after a couple of weeks.

Doing something outside of school does help teens to see that there is more to life than academic achievement.

My DS(15) is not at all academic but going to army cadets has really helped him to grow up and take pride in the things he does. The knock on effect at school is that he is now a grade A for effort student even if he averages a C for attainment.

Good advice from Gnome IMO.

If you can afford a tutor for English and/or maths that would probably boost her confidence and her results of course.

I agree with the first two posters. She needs to find what she is good at.

My DD does many activities outside school 4 nights a week and is always polite and popular in these ! It is just anything academic she turns from angelic to demonic! even the sight of a maths book sends her into irrational meltdown !She is good at art technology and sports anything physical ! She is a completely different child in the academic lessons and is often iscolated in these lessons!She does have a learning disability but she also needs to at least concentrate but she cant !She doesnt really concentrate at home either she has never watched a film ect!

I dont expect her to be good at everything and have always known she is more creative and always told her as long as she was happy and confident then so was i! But her attitude to these subjects is so OTT now i worry she will not make it through school she has detentions daily and is never off report ! She thinks the teachers all hate her !

I wouldnt worry to much, teenage yrs for many kids are the worse cause they cant see past school times and so most get depressed etc, and if your female its worse cause of the homos but i think even if you can get her through the basics then the rest will follow, at this stage as long as your there for her through the good and bad and she has some rules in place then it will be ok, might be tough but just keep reasuring her, hope this helps x

Thanks yeah she does need tons of reassurance ! Unfortunatley she doesnt know the basics so really needs to try but she has got a barrier up that she wont let down she refuses help and just refuses! Teenage girls are pretty vile to each other my DD is such a kind friend but she receives alot of bitchy comments and others being nasty takingg the mickey out of her ect i think she gets so consumed by them school work is the lowest priority !She isnt very good at letting things go over her head(apart from school work!!) but suppose that comes with age!

Has she chosen her GCSEs yet? Things got a lot easier for DS when he realised that

1. Some subjects he didnt like were coming to an end
2. He could choose subjects which interested him

Some of the things we worked hard with DS to understand were:

1. His attitude would affect whether he would be accepted onto his options.
2. It was up to him to get what he needed out of school, he was doing it for himself not for his teachers
3. Poor attitude and discipline would be detrimental to his chosen career path

Actually, that third one was key. Through army cadets he worked out what he wanted to do post school. School is now just a step on the way to what he wants to do.

she has already chosen her options and was very bemused when she realised she couldnt opt out of english ,maths ,science and languages!She really has no motivation to do well she said she wont work as shes to "thick " "no one would give me a job anyhow" ect ect its been since christmas and has just got worse ! She said she was the bottom of the class when she tried so she may aswell be at the bottom and stop trying ! I havent a clue how to get her confidence back now its gone as she is thinking so negativly the staff are very neative with her so here we are stuck in a negative spiral!

Have you spoken to the head of pastoral care?

Fwiw I have seen a massive difference in my son between the ages of 13 and almost 16 (doing GCSEs now) in attitude and confidence so all is not yet lost.

Ps. I note you call her naughty in your title, beware of the self-fulfilling prophecy. Does she have siblings ?

If she can't sit though a film, how can anyone expect her to sit through a whole lesson. It sounds to me as though she needs more support in school. If she's made no progress in 3 years she is being failed somewhere. She obviously needs more help than most to achieve academically.

Does she see anyone for the learning disabilities? Ie does she have access to the senco? Has she ever been referred to camhs?

If she has attention deficit issues such that she has never been able to concentrate long enough to watch a film in 13 years, the. You might want to go back to the pediatrician, get a new assessment done, and consider some medication? (Ie vyvanse, concerta etc) Apols if you have tried the meds route - you aren't clear what exact ld is the issue, but a lot of children with attention issues do need additional help through puberty and teens.

Camhs may also have her access a therapist for a time that can give her some support with self-esteem and planning.

What does the senco think? Does she get any additional support in class? Is she on school action? School action plus? Statemented?

And calling a kid with learning disabilities 'naughty' is kinda odd. Jus' sayin'.

You don't mention any specific interventions for this - so I'm wondering whether dd has just been completely let down.

Lol Lynette. Great minds...

Thanks for the advice ! I do not find her "naughty" but school do !I think i made that pretty clear in what i have written above?! not here for criticism ! My DD is quite underweight and an incredibly fussy eater so i am very wary of medication ! I am battling with the school daily as they seem to have ignored her special needs and say she is just "naughty with a bad attitude" . She does have interventions but sadly with the age she is at she is not keen to comply (not many teens want a 1-1 ) so often rejects help!It just seems like a battle between her and the school!

But you said she has learning disabilit/ ies?

What has happened in the past about this diagnosis and her support?

A child who cannot watch a film NEEDS additional support.

What does her paediatrician say?

What does the SENcO say?

What support does she have for her LD?

Please stop defending yourself against imaginary criticism and answer the absolutely essential questions - either your child has LD and requires support (and is not getting any, and you need to advocate on her behalf and go back to the authorities to get adequate provision in place) or you are tossing around the term and don't understand that we are trying to help you.

Presumably you posted here because you want to help your dd. so stop pissing about and replying as if we were criticisms you. We're not.

I worked as an LSA in a secondary school with 13yos with a load of different dx. There are lots of ways to give support than 1-1.

What does she have in place?

Medication dosage is given on weight, and youth are weighed regularly to monitor weight. They don't just throw Ritalin at you and expect you to carry on.

Your dd is struggling and needs help.

I have a 12yo ds who is also attention deficit, has sensory issues relating to food, is a very picky eater, and is on medication.

What counselling has she had?

Are you in touch with any of the agencies giving advice for kids with add/ ADHD?

Have you tried the usual methods that parents do, before resorting to medication? Ie increasing omega intake, zinc supplements, and Epsom salts in bath water?

It's impossible to give advice other than 'poor you, bastard school' (which might be what you want to hear, rather than actual advice) if we don't know where you and dd are in the 'searching for an answer' camp?

Does she have an IEP?

What are her targets?

Are you keeping a file with this stuff in it, so that you can go back to senco, prove she is not meeting targets and request review?

When was she dx? What follow up have you had with NHS?

In primary she "slipped through the net" i was always on the phone to them and i think they just had me down as over reacting ! One teacher even called her "idiotic" and when i complained she told me they are allowed to criticise their behaviour so she'd done nothing wrong ! I removed her needless to say and now having problems at this school she suspected adhd but when she had her assesment she refused to enter the room they persisted but she kept leaving so they ended up discharging her ! She is back on the waiting list but it is very long! The school as i said just think its "bad attitude ,disrespectful ect" but i dont see this side of her at home she has the odd moments but nothing unusual for a teenage girl! She has always been hyper and is always busy she doesnt do down time or relaxing !I am constantly advocating to try and make them use positives and encourage her without sendin gher out ect but they dont seem to listen ! SENCO have put additional classes in for her but she left crying as she didnt want to go and they decided not to persist ! I literally feel like im banging my head against a brick wall trying to get them to just be a bit kinder !

"I havent a clue how to get her confidence back"

What is she good at? Really need to reinforce her seeing that for her self-esteem. It sounds like she's got a lot going for her but not able to see that for herself. Academics not everything.

Okay, there are often longer waiting lists if you are relying on school to assess.

Have you requested assessment through GP or paed?

Ds wasn't dx until late.

Dd sounds as though she has hugely low esteem and has developed this attitude to protect herself against academic work. Ie she has convinced herself she can't cope and this is a coping mechanism.

I would say GP, paed and camhs referral.

It's really hard when they have got this far without support, as now hormones and independence mean they have to be the ones to agree to everything.

Would she see the doc? Does she see any of this as a problem? There are support groups for teens with add/ ADHD. But really important to get her properly assessed first, I think. Doc might have other ideas. She sounds as though the attention side is what is causing her problems, and everything else has been built up to protect herself, but I would not rely on school to get the ball rolling. Waiting for the EP is like waiting for Christmas, except usually it takes longer than a year.

Start reading up on this stuff. You can often implement some strategies before dx that help.

And get her on some decent omegas, zinc supplement, and Epsom salts in her bath as an interim measure. (Assume you have not tried, yet?) School actually asked us if we had medicated ds when he had been on that regime for a week as he was a completely different child.

Yes she has been reffered to CAHMS she does seem willing this time where as before she was so angry at the thought of adhd but i think a friend of hers has it which has made it less of an issue for her to be assessed ! Yes been waiting for an EP since she was 7 so not holding out much hope for one! She has fish oils and vitamins but not tried epsom salts! She is a very keen athlete and is very confident in this area and with in the practical subjects (cookery ,textiles ,art ect!) . She is extremly hyper sensitive and reacts in a very volatile way when challenged she is very obsessed with her appearance and caked on so much foundation the other day she looked a bit unwell so i told her what a beautiful complextion she had and that she didnt need to wear quite so much foundation she reacted by screaming that i think shes ugly and so does everyone else before throwing her phone at a wall!! So i can kind of see where the school are coming from as i think this is constant at school where as its quite rare at home unless i attempt to help her if shes stuck but its still hard to hear constant negativity ! Secondarys schools are so difficult and she has really struggled with the change she loves the maternal teachers that are very soft and give lots of praise where as secondary is more "right to get to the next level you need to do xyz " . She keeps askin the teachers if they hate her and said they dont answer so she knows they do! They are a very stern looking bunch and my DD judges people on their instant warmth (smiling ect!) . I think she has filled the role of class clown to mask her insecurtites if the teacher asks her a question she replies with something random like "sausages" "i love you " ect!

and yes gp has reffered also so they have both but still a long wait!