Really can't cope with 13 year old, want him to live elsewhere

[SilverMoonPickup]

I know that sounds awful but I've had 13 years of it. Right from nursery he's been constantly in and out of trouble, often the target of other parent's complaints.

He just doesn't seem to see consequence for anything, cares about nobody but himself. From petty stuff like that the fact that we can't buy biscuits as he eats the entire packet before anyone else has chance to have any. I have to hide multipack crisps in the boot of my car or a pack of 24 will be gone within days (well, all the flavours he likes). We can't buy "nice" drinks as nobody else gets chance to have any. My eldest son is constantly complaining that the entire family suffers because of one person being greedy and selfish.

He won't go to sleep on a night. As soon as we all go to bed he's up, creeping around the house, raiding cupboards, on the internet, messing with stuff. We've tried turning off the wifi so he has nothing to do but he just sneaks down and turns it back on in the middle of the night. We even set the burglar alarm so he can't sneak around the house and he even manages to avoid that going off.

He breaks EVERYTHING. He's managed to break 3 xbox's. He's now on his 3rd and that too has been broken but somehow still works (just). I bought him a £50 HTC phone as his first phone as I knew he would probably lose it so didn't get him an expensive one. He lost it a few months later in New York. This christmas I bought him a second hand iphone 4 - he'd lost it by february.

He won't save up his pocket money and then kicks off that we won't "lend" him money to buy games. He steals money from me and his brother. He's been banned from a local tesco for being part of a group that was going in stealing energy drinks and sweets and he continuously plays up about going to school either playing truant when I've gone to work or pretending that he's lost his bus pass so that I give him money (which he then spends on sweets).

He's rude, cheeky, swears, called my partner a paedophile - infact he's almost ruined my relationship as he makes the house a horrible place to be and my partner can't cope with it (and I know I wouldn't live with it if he wasn't my kid).

This morning - my one chance of a lie in he starts again, kicking off, saying he hates me etc etc. The truth is, I don't even want to live with him anymore, I've had enough of him. Trouble is, his dad probably won't want him living there either

He sounds quite similar to my 12 year old with the sleep and food. He has asd.

Your rewarding him by replacing broken items. How will he ever learn not to behave like this if he knows that you'll give in.

Its no good looking at your other son and comparing. They are completely different people. You are treating them differently (by giving in to one) so why would you be surprised that the results are different.

Some children are much much harder than others. I also have an angel son and one who is much more challenging and its hard but they need the same limits, not throwing your hands in the air and saying that this one can have it his own way because he's just too hard. You don't get to send your children back!

Your son is getting what he wants IF he acts badly enough which is backwards parenting.

Sit down and tell him you love him but this is how its going to be from now on.

Stop buying the junk and if he eats only toast, so what??? Toast is better than junk and at least you aren't enabling him. Or buy a small amount and keep it in locked boxes for each boy.

Don't buy him another phone. Make him earn the money for it (give him an opportunity to do this - something that really makes a difference to you). Make it clear if he steals the money or the phone he will deal with the consequences from whatever authority, you are not going enable this behaviour anymore and buy him out of situations he doesn't like.

I agree with whoeever said lock up all electronic devices at night.

Look at each anti social behaviour and tackle it head on. Have a 'meeting' and tell him what will be happening. Don't just throw sanctions around as and when things happen.

I was a nightmare teen, lying, stealing, screaming at the rest of the family etc and I had turned into a model citizen. My parents addressed all the issues with consequences. Never let me think I was winning - although I always knew how much I was loved through words, not stuff and only now know how utterly desperate they were.

Everything you describe rings clanging alarm bells for ASD. I have two children with autism. The food, the rages, the wandering round at night, it's all indicative of an autism spectrum disorder.

As for the Ed Psych, ds's didn't have a clue and said similar to yours. Ds was later diagnosed with autism, dyspraxia, hyper mobility and sensory processing disorder.

Your partner sounds like a knob and it's HIM you need to get rid of.

I want to be sympathetic but quite frankly I am disgusted that you want to throw your 13 year old child out in favour of some bloke.

Diet. Get him off the junk food.

For the losing things etc... my DD (13) has wanted a new phone for ages. Problem is she has a record of losing stuff/forgetting things -
She was told she couldn't have a new one until she looked after the one she has. She did really well. She was due to get a new one in Feb for her birthday - we had chosen it, going to get it at the weekend after her birthday and she lost her old one that week ...it turned up a week or so later.
We discussed it - we negotiated. She has to not lose it (or anything else) or forget stuff for 2 months (I said 3 months, she said now!) . The date is on my calendar.
So when she forgot to hand something in at school we added two days onto 'phone day' - she has just forgotten to bring her gym kit and blazer home out of her locker (milk got split on them - now on holiday for 2 weeks ewwww) . So that's another 2 days onto 'phone day' - and I get her to watch me change the calendar...
I also bought her a decent but second hand laptop for Christmas (£150) - she looks after that and maybe next Christmas she gets a new laptop ...
Change WIFi password - and keep changing it as a necessary... so everyone else can use it but he can't - unless you let him.
Treat him like a toddler - if you give in to a toddler tantrum they will learn that shouting and screaming works - you have to take a deep breath and ignore, ignore, ignore...he really will get bored eventually if he doesn't get a reaction (discreet ear plugs and endless patience?) At the moment you are teaching him if he whines enough he gets what he wants...every time you give in...Tell him if you behave like that you will not get what you want - you behave like an adult and you might - at least you will have more chance. And make sure you reward adult behaviour big time...for the first few times.
Finally the not going to school etc - maybe the 'I don't care - its your life approach'? You go to school, you get exams, you have a choice what you do with your life...you don't and you will have no choice. But it is your life, your decision, you are almost an adult and have to start taking responsibility for yourself...I can only try and help you, do the best I can for you ...even if I forced you to go I can't make you study so it is your call - just hope you don't regret it...

My DD1 has been incredibly hard work all her life - but recently she has been improving - can't decided if we have gone past the teenage nightmare (last 13 yrs) or this is the calm before the storm !

Oh I don't want to throw the lad out in favour of the bloke! I've struggled with DS before I even met my partner!!

There are a number of asd symptoms in him. obsessions, sensitivity to material, refusal to wear certain items even though he chose them, inability to forward plan ("I want a game which costs £15 - I get £5 a week pocket money, how could I possibly get the game if I only get £5? that;s £10 difference!" ... save up for 3 weeks son, do you want me to save your money for you? "no I need it!" ... but how will you get your game then? "ummm .... I don't know?" )

How do I even go about getting an assessment for asd?

I think if you do nothing with your kids (in terms of discipline) you might get away with it if their general character is laid back etc. Sounds like you just got away with it with your other son!

This one, well, you need to start 'dog' training (agree with the analogy). He's spoilt.

GP first. What's he like at school?

Where do you want him to live?

School can help with assessment me too but at secondary school age it's much harder. If you PM me your whereabouts I will find out what the diagnostic process is in your area, it differs by area and age.

Not "me" too! Not sure how that got there

At school he's disruptive and struggling. He was on school action plus but they took him off as academically he was "ok". saying that his current levels suggest he has the Math ability of an 11 year old (level 3?)

Only Friday we had a letter home about severe disruption in classes.

I have PM'd you

He might or might not have an autistic spectrum disorder, but regardless of any special needs he needs boundaries and consequences. In fact I understand kids on the spectrum like to know what the rules are .

At the moment the only " rule" you seem to have is scream hard enough and you'll get what you want.

AS many have said decide the rules and stick to them. Fight the battles that are important but fight them as determined family- united. no partner being stroppy as well.

So maybe the 1st things are lock the food cupboards and get the Wifi hub in your bedroom at night. Back that up with a "you break it you replace it" rule.

Expect, as in puppy training or managing toddlers a LOT of pushing /whining/stropping and that will get worse for weeks- these are behaviours you have allowed him to learn I'm afraid, but with consistent management he will learn.

Does he have any time at his dads? If so, what is his behaviour like there?

I kniw we can't and shouldn't tryand diagnose a child over the internet but if he does have ASD or ADHD or similar you need a referral to a clinical psych. This is not a school issue, an ed psych won't do and besides, it is not within their remit or expertise to diagnose conditions like ASD or similar Go to your GP to get a referral. I think boundaries are vital, probably more so than with a NT child actually, but this behaviour is not a teenager going off the rails. This dates back years to pre-school days, before broken X boxes and mobile phones.

When you are both calm, have you spoken to your DS about his behaviour, how he feels and whether he can understand the impact of the behaviour? Is he ever self aware enough to realise it is making everybody around him and almost certainly himself very miserable?

I agree BBB I think there's much more going on here.

Stop buying food he likes ,get a mini fridge for your older sons room ,give him a supply of snacks in his room and put a lock on the door so that he can keep his brother out . It does sound like you need to get a backbone and enforce some boundaries .

It is all very well saying the OP should get a back bone but she has had years and years of this. I should imagine she is exhausted.

If you aren't aware there is a developmental/cognitive issue and you don't employ the right strategy, then it is very easy for things to go wrong. With NT children can you afford to give into them occasionally, to alter the way you handle them and they won't start taking liberties. I don't think that is the case for a child who has underlying difficulties. She has one child who is fine - this is not a question of her being a bad parent but a parent dealing with something she doesn't fully understand.

That said, the onus is on you to act Silver. You can't ket this go on. It will be hard though.

Sounds awful, just wanted to offer my sympathy, can't offer advice I'm afraid as my son was very much like this from aged 8 (and I never gave him expensive items/what he demanded), the stealing is far worse now he is older and the complete disregard for consequences and other peoples feelings sounds so familiar. My son chose to move in with his Dad at 13 which improved our relationship somewhat but he is very hard work still. I feel for you.

Agree with BigBoobiedBertha too, you sound like you have been trying very hard and I know it's exhausting. This is my first post on here, felt I had to say something as there are quite a few judgemental replies on mn.

It a definitely true that some children are more of a challenge than others and need more boundaries than others. But it does sound to me like he needs some help. If all you have seen is one educational psychologist then I would want a second opinion at least. I know of a child a bit like yours who is younger. And I'm fairly convinced that they have ADHD - I may be wrong and of course I'm not a professional but if I were their parent I would be knocking on doors!

There could be other stuff going on. Or it could be he has got to the age of 13 and now he's out of control because he's not a little kid any more. But please don't give up on him however exhausted you feel - there must be a way to make this better for all of you that does not involve shipping him out

And yes I agree, ed psychs are not qualified to diagnose anything. Only a developmental pediatrician can do that.

Or a clinical psych. I think it varies from area to area. Certainly here, my DS 1 saw the paediatrian only so they could work out which specialists he should see. The clinical psychs diagnosed his AS.

The OP's GP will point her in the right direction.

Lots of good advice, and yes he might have a mild ASC or something similar….

One more suggestion: When he asks questions, like he did about saving up, you really might need to tell him what to do. You and I would think “well I could save up £2.50 a week and spend £2.50 a week, that works”. But that really might not cross his mind! So when he says he doesn’t know, make some suggestions - like saving £2.50 a week for six weeks; or doing the washing up every day for three weeks and then you’ll give him the money, or whatever other suggestions work for you. He might not just be being selfish, he really might not be able to think it through.

A book which you might find useful is The Explosive Child, it’s quite good on how to do this kind of problem-solving and just how tough it can be for some kids. And I found the “baskets” approach to discipline helpful (though my DS was younger)

Good luck