I am in a cold sweat....

[chocoluvva]

DD's boyfriend is taking his driving test tomorrow. Apparently he wants to take her out in his (family's second) car on Friday evening if he passes. It'll be dark obviously and he might want other friends to join them - though hopefully not (I'm thinking of accident risk factors - ie, having more than one passenger) as he's going to a lads' night at a friend's house on Saturday.

He lives nine miles from us - we're in a suburb - he's in a small town. The roads aren't horrendous and I know he's done the drive from his to ours before, but some stretches have a 60mph limit and the thought of him driving that route with DD fills me with terror.

DD/BF are in the habit of staying over at each other's homes at the weekend. At the moment the plan is for them to go a city-centre cinema then come back here but if he isn't allowed to have the car overnight, he'll no doubt invite her back to his.... The thought of him driving into town isn't quite so bad - less risky? - but the thought of them driving back out to his - dual carriageway and country roads....

I don't know what I'm hoping you wise ladies can say as I don't want my DD being a passenger in his car, but I don't want to say she can't either. His parents trust him, his friends will probably be delighted to go out with him in his car......

He's a nice lad and he doesn't seem reckless but I hope he doesn't pass.

I would be honest with them. Say you would very much prefer they just went out somewhere quiet on their own during the day. Being in charge of a lethal weapon on your own for the first few times is a really big thing. Doing it in the best conditions is sensible before you tackle dark/cities/places where other idiots might be about (especially on Friday and Saturday nights). And doing with people and at a time when you are not tempted to show off a bit is good too. (Personally I took the dog with me the first time I drove on my own ).

And wish him luck for his test.

chocoluvva I would not be afraid to say no.
DS1 passed his test last July. We are very rural and it's a life skill. Nevertheless I laid down strict rules. Some may call me PFB for this. No passengers other than adults until he had gained more experience (for at least 3 months). At the same time his GF passed her test and I didn't let him go out in her car until she had some mileage under her belt.

Since then I have let him give the odd lift to a friend but I still won't let him take a car load of lads. He soon realised that none drivers made bad passengers. Those of his friends (all girls) who could drive were very concious of not distracting the driver and those who couldn't drive would giggle and chat.

DS started driving lessons last November. Most of his lessons have been in the dark - including his 1st one when he drove about 20 miles around a mixture of country roads and dual carriageway. We have only just insured one of our cars for him to get extra practice - I took him out the other day and the realisation dawned on me that whilst I thought it would be nerve wracking sitting with him whilst he is learning, it will be even more nerve wracking not being in the car with him once he passes his test.
I like the idea of a policy which restricts the number of under 21yo passengers in the car as a car full of lads is a recipe for disaster - and girls too.
We live in a street with 5 houses. 2 of the teenage lads (different families) had accidents within months of passing their tests - fortunately they escaped without serious injury. One of them must have clocked up 6 points as I know he had to re-take his test - didn't slow him down though - he has overtaken me many times.
I think you would be sensible to say 'No' OP. Going out in charge of a car for the 1st time can be daunting without the distraction of a non-driver. They say you only learn to drive once you have passed your test so if he passes today he is only over the 1st hurdle.

ohtowinthelottery you only learn to drive once you have passed your test DS has said that to me himself.
His driving instructor varied the times of his lessons so that he had practice at different times of day. In the dark and in the ice. I also paid for him to have a two hour motorway driving lesson after he passed his test.

It's truly terrifying letting them go. I'm always concious of the way other people view 18 year old boy drivers. I did tell him that he could use insurance restrictions as an excuse if his friends were pressuring him to take them.

He passed.

I asked DD if she knew what percentage of young drivers have a crash within six months of passing their test and she guessed at 50%!!! But would still happily go off in a car with one! I was horrified by the 20% figure quoted on BOF's link.

The cinema they wanted to drive to is a few miles out of the city on a motorway! He drove along the motorway with his mum yesterday evening - I wonder if she knows what he was planning.

Anyway, DH and I have decided that for the time being, he can drive her to places in our suburb and into one neighbouring part of the city, subject to a 'satisfactory' chat with him this evening. Not back to his home and there are to be no other passengers. We will only let DD go tonight if he tells us exactly where they're going and discusses the route. DD is fine about this despite being very strong willed, but would go if we let her. These days she hardly ever asks if she can do things - she just tells us she's doing it - and we hardly ever say no anyway, so she probably didn't want to have to choose ..... Although, she'd have gone if we'd let her....

DD's provisional license came yesterday too!

These days she hardly ever asks if she can do things - she just tells us she's doing it It's tricky when they reach this stage. Sounds as though you have come to a reasonable compromise.

That's nice of you to say so. She'll be moving into a student flat in September.

DD might be doing an event in Newcastle in a fortnight - BF had apparently offered to drive her (from Scotland)! With the benefit of hindsight, I should have told him no giving lifts to DD for the first few weeks - he was probably looking forward to taking his friends to all sorts of places as soon as he passed his test. He's one of the first of her friends to get his license (apart from the boy I was so impressed with - she fell out with him )

It's tricky- 20% chance of a crash in the first six months - therefore no passengers for six months, but then you'd think they'd be okay doing a 10 minute drive on 30mph roads.

The other boy offered to drive her to a different cinema (a year ago) but I said no, outright - there's good public transport and I'd never met him. Then I thought about it and told her that if he offered to drive her home from the railway station it was fine. It seems unnecessary to not even permit very short runs IMO.

"It's tricky when they reach this stage" - alcohol, travel, driving; the worry is never-ending. But I am conscious of the need to let them do things before they leave home. I think they're less likely to go mad if they've had a bit of freedom first under the safety-umbrella of the family home.

Then again - if they have an accident....

OP, I know what you mean about it being a difficult age - I have a 17yo DD and I have to balance my own worries and concerns with giving her an appropriate level of freedom. I agree with letting them have some freedom while they live in the safety of the family home, as I think that they then are less likely to go less wild.

Neither DD or her current bf can drive yet and so they are reliant on me and his mum to do the taxi runs.

I don't think you ever stop worrying about them - you just change what you worry about.

tbh, unless his parents are superorganised, I'd be surprised if they had got the insurance sorted out to allow him to drive. It took 5 or 6 days after my ds passed before I got the insurance sorted, as the insurance you have when you're earning automatically expires once you've passed your test. I had to change insurance brokers as the ones who insured when he was learning wouldn't insure him once he'd passed, leading me to spend bloody hours on insurance comparison sites. Might be different if the teen has his own car, but ds is a bloody expensive named driver on my car.

Personally, I don't allow my ds to have passengers his age in the car with him, but will relax that rule once he's been driving by himself for a bit. I wouldn't be happy with him having a lift with a friend who has only just passed their test.

My DS was insured as a learner and it just required a phone call when he passed test. OP has. No need to add that to worries.

Thank you for your replies.

BF is here now with his parents' car, but they decided not to go out anyway!! BF had decided the cinema on the motorway was too big an undertaking - he hadn't realised it's further from our house than from his. I'm glad he's not as confident as I thought he was. (The first time I drove on a motorway I was terrified.)

He informed me that passengers in the back are an increased risk-factor for having an accident....

I don't know what his parents think about him having passengers.

I don't think some parents do actually think about it.
DS clocked up many nail biting hours of practice with me in addition to his lessons.
A friend of DS just passed his test. He never practised in his parents car as they didn't insure him but they bought him a cat when he passed. DS saw him on his first day in the car giving a lift home to a car load of friends from college. He said he looked terrified.
Driving around the sixth form college at 4pm is an education. Teenagers in lethal weapons.

How very sad these posts are.

If he's passed his test, then he will be capable of driving his girlfriend to the pictures and back, and IMVHO that is exactly the sort of trip to be starting with.
Presumably he's been driving in the dark up to now - I know my ds's lessons have mostly been in dusk or dark because it is dark in the Winter.

Of course I will be nervous when he starts going out on his own, but, ultimately, that is what you learn to drive for.

bought him a cat CAR

And because if you fuss too much about taking lifts, giving lifts, borrowing cars or whatever you increase the chances if teens lying and making bad choices.

There should only be on absolute in breakable rule. If you think the person giving you a lift is drunk, has taken drugs or makes you feel unsafe in any way, I will come and pick you up or pay for a taxi. No follow up lecture will be given and I will not be cross.

Well, they did 'car' things; Macdonald's drive through ( which is just round the corner,) bought beer form the supermarket (BF is newly 18), put petrol in the car and went to a cinema in the 'permissible' part of the city.

He told DD he didn't know how to park in the car park so DD advised him to park where there was a row of empty spaces and he accepted help from a 'lady' at the petrol station. Clearly he's happy for DD to see he isn't super-confident/smooth. Apparently, he drives "much more slowly than I do" and was following the rulebook to the letter.

Nocomet - I agree that some well-intentioned parents make such a big deal about things that their teens stop telling them anything/tell lies. But there's potentially such a lot at stake here - it's not the same as imposing an early curfew on week-nights or being strict about clothes/girlfriends etc. The human brain is still developing until the early twenties. If I had my way I'd raise the minimum age of drivers to 21 (with exemptions for special cases).

I told DD's BF that if I'd thought beforehand I'd have told him not to expect DD to be allowed to go out in his car wherever they wanted until he's more experienced, despite the fact that I understand and respect his wish to be more independent. I congratulated him on passing his test - first time - and we discussed the accident stats - like it or not he's young, male and inexperienced. He claimed to "understand my concern".

He knows that I knew about his borrowed ID that he used to buy booze with, he's allowed to stay over here.... he can surely not object to being told that I don't want my DD going in his car with other passengers anywhere they like straight after he's passed his test.

But I know what you mean - "if you think the person giving you a lift..." - we have to begin giving them credit for some sense - DD would be angry with anyone who made her feel unsafe. My, nowadays rare 'rule' of not getting lifts from young, recently passed drivers makes it easier for her to avoid being in situations where she might be embarrassed at turning down a lift, apart from anything else.

All the times I've advised MNetters that 14-15 is the worst stage though... do they ever stop going from one scary situation to another?

Oh he sounds lovely chocoluvva

do they ever stop going from one scary situation to another?
I was thinking this last week as I lay awake waiting to hear DS arrive home after driving to his GF. She lives 15 miles away along country roads.
I wonder whether, when they are away at uni .........

I never found 14-15 any bother, maybe because I have boys? 17 -18 has definitely been the most stressful for all sorts of reasons.

Doesn't he have to send off the test results and provisional licence and wait for fill licence to come back from DVLA before he can go out on his own? I am sure I had to do that, although I passed at 18 which is a fair while ago now?

I wish you luck with your prescribed list, it might last 6 months or it might last 6 days.

What I do know is I'd never know. My 16y is lovely, but I'm not deluded enough to think she always tells the whole truth.

You sound like you have talked things through very sensibly. My 18 year old nephew was going to go out with his best friend in the car the day after his friend passed his text. Luckily my nephew had to stay late at work and couldn't go . His friend crashed his car and was killed outright. Terrible.

I understand the anxiety about them being out in a car.
I went out with DD1 a few times once she'd passed and I was confident that she wasn't taking any risks but she was hesitant at roundabouts and junctions and I could see potential problems with that.
I used to ask her to text me as soon as she reached her destination so that I'd know she was safe. Trouble was she kept forgetting and so I'd worry even more. Her then BF passed his test shortly after her. They went away for a weekend a few hundred miles away. Now that was nerve wracking - he was a conscientious driver - but his inexperience obviously put them at risk.
I had no idea just how worried I would be about her going out in the car both as a driver and passenger. All you can do IMO is discuss the risks as you've done. DD1 is currently off at university (with no car). It's sitting in our garage waiting for DD2 to pass her test which she hopes to do within a few months! I suspect I'll be even worse with her and she has a tendency to flap under pressure.

AnneElliott No you can legally drive away from the test centre once you have passed.

yourlittlesecret I agree - I also never found the age 14-15 years really any bother and I just have a girl. 17-18 had given me the biggest challenges as a parent for all sorts of reasons.

choc your DD's bf sounds like a lovely lad and very sensible.

I'm off to run her home from his house now though!

DH and I were just saying that the period immediately after passing the test is possibly safer than a few weeks down the line - when he's more confident, but not very much more experienced...

I learnt my limits of overtaking and hurrying to places in the car by reaching the limits of what was safe: the drive to work that began to start later and later until one day when I almost didn't make it back onto my side of the road after overtaking. At least I was on my own. After that I always gave myself longer to get to work.

On the other hand, we maybe take more risks when we don't have passengers. Hopefully.

Nocomet - you're right that they're never going to tell you everything. But seeing as I haven't tried to clamp down on the number of excessive parties they go to/haven't flown off the handle when they've told me about using fake ID, let them stay over etc they will hopefully realise I don't impose 'rules' lightly. I don't know - trying to have my cake and eat it perhaps - a blanket ban would have been clearer - but then as you say, perhaps she'd go in his car without telling me....

I'm so stupid - she phoned from school at lunchtime to say that I didn't need to pick her up in the car after school as BF had the car at school. (We're 2.5 miles from her school - too far to walk normally) and forgetting that he would be offering as many lifts as he had space for - first day at school with his mum's car - I said yes. So much for him informing me that a significant risk factor for accidents was having more than one passenger - specifically in the back seat.

DD replied, "Well, I was in the back seat". They don't care do they?

Serves me right for thinking I was so amazing having such a reasonable chat with her and her BF. So much for him "understand [ing] my concern." and

Feel free to say 'I told you so' Nocomet.