How do you handle a stroppy drama queen???

[cordyroy]

Hoping for some Mumsnet insight here as I'm at a bit of a loss. My dd 13 can be so dramatic and stroppy at the moment, the usual huffing about tidying room/washing up is all manageable but we've had a few situations now where she is really defiant - this is usually caused by me enforcing restrictions on ipad/computer. We had agreed that she was allowed to use it until 9pm but then had to bring it downstairs, which invariably doesn't happen and I have to go and ask her. She either refuses to hand over the ipad, or if I have picked it up she will refuse to go to bed and goes off on a major rant. I don't want this to result in lots of shouting and arguments that go around in circles but despite talking quietly and calmly to her I get nowhere. How do you deal with this???? I can't physically put her in bed like a toddler (despite her behaving like one!!!)

How long do you plan on enforcing bedtimes? Just out of curiosity, not a critical question.

Until 16? 17? 18? Because what changes? I don't see how you can control their bedtimes so rigidly until x day, then expect them to be able to do it on their own without repercussions?

I think the problem is if you think along the young teen, older teen lines at some point, probably 13/14 your going to have a massive bust up.

One day a hormone filled teen is going to round on all your petty rules and demand they are all revoked.

At the point when your teen is most susceptible to peer pressure and you most need control you find yourself with non.

Massively better, in my opinion, to gently give more freedom than you really want to to an 10/11/12y than have a massive power struggle at 13.

In our house this happened naturally with DD1 because she is a quietly confident night owl. Had DD2 been the oldest I'd probably have chased to bed earlier because she would have slept.

Now DD2 is 13, I'm glad that didn't happen, because she's learnt herself that trying to keep up with her sister doesn't suit. We don't have to have a fight because sometime between 10&11 she goes to bed, turns her light out and goes to sleep.

(DD1 does to now, but that's because of the dreaded GCSEs)

oh I don't agree and think that's a bit silly tbh

she doesn't fuss about enforced bedtimes anyway so its not an issue

and she's a clever girl, she knows that 'petty rules' are there to ensure she gets the most out of life

getting a good night's sleep is a gift, not a punishment

"One day a hormone fuelled teen is going to round on your petty rules and demand they are all revoked"

BRING IT

Well im on teen number four with one more to endure but I completely disagree with them finding their own bedtimes.
My boys would have played on the consoles all night if I'd let them and ere extremely difficult at home and school if they were overtired so needed a good nights sleep regularly.
Dd has never been one to fall asleep watching tv or reading she would just do it all night.
She has are ally active life with dancing most nights and falls asleep within seconds of lights out around 9.30 so must need it.
I worked In mental health for years and one of thre things we prioritised for some patients with depression was a good sleep routine, sleep is important for healing and growing.
It's important for kids to learn boundaries and rules as they will meet them in everyday life as adults.
I can't take my I pad to work and sit their mumsnetting or to a meeting at the school, they need to learn the same.

starball you can't generalise so much, maybe that's what's happened with your teens but they are different and react in different ways.

Not all teens rebel against rules, some are more affected by hormones than others.

Maybe you've been lucky with yours being sensible about bedtimes but as ledkr points out, some dc would just take the mickey and end up extremely sleep deprived.

doctors it's a gradual process isn't it? You don't wake up one morning and start giving teens complete freedom over bedtimes overnight, nor would you do with other things.

Well mine all just gradually had to have less and less rules as they got older but they were also by then responsible for consequences eg, if they were late for college they got bollocking and not me like if they were late for school.
None of than have any issues with self discipline now.
Do you extend the "rules don't work" philosophy to other things like for example time to come home, attending no school, brushing their teeth etc?

I didn't say rules don't work, it's very arbitor rules that are a problem.

The sort you can only justify with, "because I said so".

You can't justify bed time being 9 rather 9.15, or the wifi going off at 10 rather than 10.30. You have just picked a number.

You will clean your teeth, clearly has a reason. You will be back by 9 or I will worry, Alice's mum will be sick of the sight of you, you won't get any supper. Have some logic.

Here there's no going out without a lift anyway and being late at pick up point makes lifts harder to get

You sound like a teenager starball

It's 9 here (bedtime)

I agree with Star.

If you send them to bed at 9 (which is ridiculously early for a teenager imo), then you need a reason for it. Not "because I'm the parent and I said so", but a genuine reason. I always had to be in my room and quiet by 10pm, because my room was above my parents and they had to be up at 6am for work. That's a genuine reason to be quiet and be in your room by a certain time.

But, I didn't have to go to sleep. I was allowed to read or text my friends or go online so long as I was quiet. If I was tired in the morning, tough shit. That was my problem. I still had to get up and get the bus at 8am. And as a rule, if I had stayed up too late one night, the following day I was asleep by 8pm of my own accord. Of course I had the occasional late night and several days where getting out of bed seemed like the worst thing in the world, but knowing it was my fault somehow made it easier to deal with!

My dd doesn't have to go to sleep either

Bedtime has never been a source of conflict in this house, probably unlike most teens she gets up and goes out at 6am to feed and check ponies

Her friend doesn't go to bed until 11pm

She is completely non sporty, has no time consuming pets and isn't particularly academic

So she may as well stay up texting I guess

My dd doesn't have to go to sleep either but she has to stop being online which she does at 9.

There is plenty of logic for going to bed at a certain time.

Apart from the obvious getting some sleep I like some adult time as well.

They are allowed to police their own bedtimes at weekends (within reason) I still have to suggest they go to bed or they would be up all night then moody and vile the next day.

My dd gets horrific migraines if she is tired and also falls asleep instantly the lights go out, so me insisting on bedtime is about far more than "just. Because"

The drs do you have a teenager yet? I'm asking because I thought you sound very young as you mentioned texting when you were in bed as a teenager.
Mobile phones weren't even invented when I was a teen

The impression I get is that there's huge peer pressure to be awake until late. My DD seemed to genuinely think she was missing out on life if she went to sleep at a sensible time. The late evening seems to be the time for posting on facebook, instagram etc.

I think she could have slept at 8pm many days but that would have been 'boring' so she'd soldier on until she got her second wind at 10pm and pinged into life for another couple of hours. There was no telling her.

She's been a bit more sensible since she turned 17. In her case the poor sleep pattern was a result of a combination of being rebellious, typical teenage sleep hormones not 'kicking in' until later in the day, naturally being a night-owl like her DF, being hooked on social networks and often lack of exercise.

Not managing to enforce a better sleep routine has been one of my parenting failings. It's very frustrating. Even telling her that lack of sleep often results in increased calorific intake (with the obvious consequences) and bad skin; both important to her, had no effect.

On the other hand, like many of her friends with a similar sleep pattern, she did well at school and got a place on a very competitive higher education course. And she eats reasonably healthily, doesn't smoke, didn't drink until she was 17 and then (so far) only moderately and is generally fairly happy. So I don't know.....

That's my experience with an older teenager FWIW. (My !14YO is much more sensible, but he gets much more exercise and isn't into social networking sites.)

Honestly they really do have to learn themselves.

DD2(12/Y8) was horrible last term staying up to gone 11 and being grumpy. No real use telling her off as she had a couple of bugs and a very painful ankle. For three or four weeks, I think she was just feeling, snuffly, coughing and getting woken up by her foot. Also because of her ankle she wasn't trampolining for hours and feeling tired.

This week she has announced that we are all to remind her to go to bed by 10.30 as she is fed up of being grumpy in the morning.

She was up and 1/2 dressed when our alarm event off at 6.55, so we shall see.

(DD1 (15) is a zombie in the morning regardless of bed time or when she gets up, just as I am. I hate 7 and 9 am equally)

I agree with Star. My teenagers don't have bedtimes and we don't police the electronics. We do say if they can't get up in the morning then we will have to act, but we would rather they had some self discipline.

I think that's fine but not everyone agrees.
Each child is different and I know that mine just need boundaries and sleep and will not get it if I don't facilitate it.

Id rather impose a few rules than have a tired child with a migraine and bad attitude.

If it works for your family then fine but that doesn't mean it suits everyone.

Yes, they need to learn self discipline and they need to understand what they, personally can and can't getaway with.

By Y10/11 they have to balance HW, revision, extra curricula and social things. You really can't do it for them.

DD2 spent 9-9.45pm last night doing her French properly, had I insisted she did it earlier, instead of chilling out watching the Simpsons and having a shower first, she'd have scribbled something in 10 minutes in a bad temper.

Plenty of self discipline in my older kids who had bedtimes.

One in the army another a ballet dancer, both require huge amounts of self discipline and self regulation but also rest, which was partly facilitated by us when they were younger. They learned self regulation as they got older but definitely not at 10/11.

thedoctors no-one is saying on here or even implying that they are imposing rules 'because I said so' or just for the sake of it. And I totally agree that there should be reasons for boundaries.

But there are plenty of reasons why enough sleep (or even rest) is important to a growing teen. Some, like starball's dc will quickly learn that not enough sleep = tired and grumpy. Some won't and need a boundary in place.

And there is plenty of research to show that screen time before going to sleep has a negative effect on the brain and can disrupt sleep. This is even more true these days with portable devices being used in bedrooms. The light emitted suppresses the production of melatonin which helps us fall asleep.

It's also worth remembering that some decisions we make for our dc aren't because we're being mean or party-poopers. They stem from caring about your child and wanting the best for him/her. Some decisions won't be popular and the reasons for your decisions won't always be obvious to your dc until later.

I think it comes down to knowing your child tbh.

Ds 2 would never have needed rules, he was great at realising that he was tired and would switch everything off and go to sleep, the other two definitely wouldn't have and would have been knackered and a pain in the arse the next day, I worked full time and was a single mum so certainly couldn't be doing with "letting them learn" as all that would have meant was that I lost my job as was late after cajoling them out if bed in the morning. Not for me I'm afraid.

Of course young teenagers need set bedtimes for school nights.
Mine are in their early 20s now but they had to be in their rooms for a certain time. 9.30 when they 12/13 and no phones/laptops allowed in the bedroom at nighttime.(Or TVs)
Yes, they had friends who stayed up later and had access to TVs, phones etc but as I used to tell my dc they could go and live with them if that's what they wanted.

My DDs did have teenage tantrums, there were door slammings and sulks and cries of "I hate you" and "but alllllll my friends do x, u, z"
It's all normal teenage behaviour but they were told, very calmly if they ever crossed the line.

All I'm suggesting is parents take a deep breath and decide if rules that cause door slamming are actually achieving anything worth while or just chipping paint and giving everyone a headache.

DCs spending 11-13 spending 30-60 minutes a tight fighting about going to sleep, or going to their rooms and reading anyway which is what DD1 and I would do.

Only then to have a massive row 2 days after they are 13 or 14 and refuse to do anything they are told ever again, is a goodway to bring up teens.

or is it better to let them have slightly more freedom younger when they respect it rather than when they think its a right.

Oh I don't have any of that nonsense. The most I get is an eye roll. Incidentally we discussed reasonable rules regarding bedtime and I pad use so dd can hardly make too much fuss as we agreed.

I found the opposite to you star I found if they knew there were rules and consequences from a young age then they were easier to keep on track as they got older.

I was a single mum to three strapping lads, I could do nothing else or they would have walked all over me.

Horses for courses starball

But what are you going to do when your dc start slamming doors over other things they don't agree with? Or say their friends are allowed to do x, y or z?

Personally I feel, as do others on here, that having a good night's sleep IS a battle worth having.

Have a look at the research on the effects of screens on sleep, in particular production of melatonin.