Guilt, anger, impact on wider family - downward spiral?

[Minifingers]

Anyone who's read my threads on this board (and elsewhere on mumsnet) will know something about the journey we've been on the past couple of years with dd.

I'm posting because I've been mulling on the issue of dd digging herself into a hole regarding her responsibility for the problems she's having at school and at home. Following a meeting with her HOY at school last Tuesday, there's been no let-up and she now has an ongoing exclusion from two lessons, with a permanent exclusion on the cards for the end of this term. Yesterday she phoned me and told me that she had shoved a supply teacher out of the way when this teacher tried to keep her in the room (she wanted to talk to dd about her behaviour and dd wanted to leave). The teacher told her it was assault. As far as I'm aware this incident hasn't got back to her HOY year yet and may not get back, if the supply teacher doesn't mention it, which she may not. If it does get back to the HOY I don't know what will happen, as this is a very serious accusation, and it may result in immediate temporary exclusion, or perhaps will accelerate a permanent exclusion.

DD is adamant it's not her fault. She's adamant that NOTHING is her fault. She said it's illegal for a teacher to hold her against her will, and that if a taxi driver had done this to her I'd consider it a criminal act. She's never really acknowledged, explained or apologised for anything she's done and will talk until she's blue in the face, shouting everyone down, talking faster and faster to try to justify her behaviour.

She's been staying with my mum and sister (who live together) since a violent episode at home a few weeks ago, to give us all a break. I was talking to my mum this morning and I can hear the sadness, disappointment and exhaustion in her voice. DD hasn't been anywhere near as bad at my mum's as she has been here, but she's still incredibly selfish, moody and obstructive. My mum is nearly 80 and I just don't know how much she can take. My sister has a very full-on job, is a recovering alcoholic and is over 50, and I know that dd's behaviour is affecting her too. In addition to this my inlaws - who are both very frail - are worrying about dd. We are a close family and everyone knows what's going on. DH sees his parents 2 or 3 times a week (he is helping to care for them as they're both currently disabled and in poor health) and they can see the impact of dd's behaviour on him - he is very stressed and saddened by it. My two younger children have been affected by dd's aggressive behaviour - how could they not be when DH and I are so affected by it? Ds1 has been very anxious of late, neurotic and moody himself, and I keep thinking about what it's like for a child of 10 (who has health worries) to live in a house where there is screaming, shouting and violence going on on a regular basis.

My SIL, who has been incredibly supportive of all of us, is now obviously also starting to feel angry with dd - she can see the impact of dd's behaviour on DH and is aware of her parents worrying about DH and dd. The ripples just spread out, and out and out.

And I'm starting to wonder if dd is too scared to take responsibility for her behaviour, because that would mean acknowledging how much harm she's done and is doing to everyone who loves her, and she can't face it. So she's digging herself into a trench, turning her face away from everyone who's trying to help her, and is on a downward spiral which will end - who knows where?

My dd is very close to my mum and sister and sees DH's parents regularly. She was named after my mum and my mother adores her. My IL really are in poor health, and my mum is facing a very serious operation at the end of this year. I keep thinking about what it will do to us and to dd, if we lose one of the grandparents this year, and dd has to live with the knowledge that all she did in the last few years of their life was make them feel sad and worried. She will have a very big burden of guilt to carry, and I wonder what that will do to her already very poor self-esteem.

And yet we can't really pretend her behaviour isn't impacting on the rest of us, or stop mentioning it to her, in an attempt to help her overlook the harm she's doing. To try to avoid her feeling guilty.

It does sound odd, doesn't it? One does kind of expect a teen to become more emotional and more rebellious but the whole descent into immaturity you describe sounds a bit strange. Perhaps the hormonal thing is something to look into.

In any case, I think you're right about making the GP your next port of call. Whether she needs medical treatment or more/different therapy or whatever, this situation is impossible, you can't live like this. Hopefully the GP will have a list of different types of support.

I have read your other threads too. I I think it sounds indicative of an ASD or PDA. Have you had her assessed for these things? I have TWO children who have ASD by the way.

I was at school with a girl who sounds just like your dd, we were all terrified of her but friends so that we wouldn't be her target. I accepted a friend request off her not so long ago on FB and in the interim she has been in prison and addicted to drugs. She seems to be sober now. It is quite clear to me now that she has PDA. I am not saying that is your dd's path, only that this girl was written off as a total waste of space and she wasn't.

I will be honest your posts make me feel a bit irritated. Your whole family is scapegoating your dd. almost wallowing in it. My dd sounds like a younger version of yours but we don't take it personally, it is what it is and I won't hear a word about her from others. They can like or lump her. Don't get me wrong she sounds thoroughly unpleasant but I am a firm believer that most kids don't want to be this way. If they are and have a decent family life there's more than likely something else at play.

It's also quite interesting to note that she was fine up till adolescence. This is a time when the rules are relaxed and life's structure is not so firm. The things that held her in place are gradually disappearing and maybe she just can't handle that doesn't know how to self govern and self discipline herself, again a common trait with ASD.

Maybe I am totally wrong but there's a lot of undiagnosed ASD about especially in girls, its hard to spot and the way you describe your dd really rings bells with me.

Can I just stress that I wasn't getting at you either, OP. I have not followed your posts, so only responded to this thread. (Probably obvious from my questions). I have an incredibly hard situation to deal with myself at home, if it's any help to know. You are not alone!
I spent all of yesterday telling myself 'I am not to blame, and nor is X'. I can't even post about it.

Would it also be worth having her tested for mineral/vitamin/nutrition levels? I'm thinking iron, magnesium and (if there are tests for this, I don't know) selenium and dopamine processing.

I asked about whether she is eating and sleeping because at this age their brain development can be hindered, even halted by lack of nutrition. Don't allow that to sound like any kind of criticism of you or her...This kind of thing can be hereditary.

As the parent of a very difficult 16 yr dd I really sympathise with you.

One of the biggest difficulties is trying to figure out why? There is also the line of suspicion from others.

Well something must be wrong at home?
Something must have happened?
Nobody behaves like this for no reason it's obviously a cry for help?

Actually the judgement and patronising, sanctimonious comments only further validate your worthlessness as a mother and general all round human being.

I'm happy for all who have young people grow up without too many difficulties, and i'm also quite envious. I wish that was me. I also hope that all of you who pass judgment and apportion blame don't ever experience how bad that hurts if things don't always work out for you.

Good luck x

Interesting thought from Sparkly about how ASD may only be apparent with the move to independence, that sounds like another possible line of enquiry.

I am sorry if I was patronising, I really struggled to write that post and I’m sorry it came across badly. I’ll back off. And I should’ve said – I do think you and your DH are very brave caring parents. Hope things get better for you and you find the support you need.

Minifingers do you think I could PM you?

-x-

Like others, I have read a lot of your posts and despite feeling really sympathetic for the tough situation you're in, each time I come away feeling very sorry for your dd. I particularly remember your post a few months back about what a pretty little child she was when she was younger and how she has now become very big - not just tall but also overweight and seems to have inherited that tendency from one or other side of the family. Do I also remember rightly that she is mixed race?

It really sounds as though puberty has hit her like a ton of bricks - once she was the pretty, adored, clever child and it was all so easy. Now she is full of anger and bewilderment at the loss of that life, full of self-loathing about her looks which are far from the advertised 'ideal' set for teenaged girls i.e. skinny, white, perfect complexion etc.

The immaturity you describe does not sound at all odd to me - it really sounds almost standard for a 14 year-old child. My ds is the same age and is just the same weird mix of maturity and childishness, they are still in-between worlds, trying to cope with a changed landscape.

From all that you have written she is clearly someone with a hell of a lot of potential and once she can get through this awful stage and start to gain some self-control and direction she might well amaze and delight you all over again. Don't forget, your previous thread had many posts describing people who had come back from awful teenage experiences - including PRU and much worse - to transform their adult lives.