Daughter and wife in physical fight - what to do?

[northernDad38]

My 13 yr old daughter is really pushing boundaries at the moment, all the usual smirking and cheeky answers etc. But today which was meant to be a family day began with her refusing to put her shoes on. It sounds silly but it just got more and more antagonistic.

I managed to make peace with her and she helped me in the garden for a an hour or so.

But before we went out an argument about clothes with her mother got so out of hand I had to physically step in and pull them apart as her mum was actually trying to throttle her.

They both said appalling things which neither really mean and they spent the rest of the afternoon apart, and things have calmed down now but U'm just so shaken and upset by what happened I just don't want anything like this to happen again...

[cestlesautres]

I think it's very helpful to have it in Teenagers.

[northernDad38]

Just to thank everyone here for their responses, and to say I'll be doing my utmost to get this resolved.

[WorraLiberty]

I'm sure you will OP

And I hope it wall goes well

[thornrose]

All the best, good luck with everything.

[garlicagain]

All the best from me, too, NorthernDad.

[AdoraBell]

What Worra said.

Text book response, you are most definitely not over reacting.

Best of luck

[northernDad38]

One more thing.

If anyone does want to discuss anything I've mentioned at greater length.

I'm happy to discuss over PM.

Thanks again for the huge number of responses.

[northernDad38]

UPDATE

DW has said there's no point going to the Dr's.
DD seems fine.

BUT I was talking things through with a friend at work and asked her if she was shocked by what I told her.

She said "No not since that time she scraped at your arms with her nails and you had to wear long sleeved t-shirts for a 2 weeks."

It was my turn to be shocked, I'd forgotten the whole incident with my DW when she had been so angry she'd done that to me. I can't remember what it was over and my friend said I wouldn't tell her at the time.

I remembered more situations that I'd brushed to one side.

At easter on the final day of a Holiday in a hotel, my DD and DW had had another raging argument and my DW had "seen red" and thrown her onto the bed. That would've been bad enough, but my DD caught her head on the windowsill.

She split her head open and we had to run her head/hair under the shower in the en-suite until the bleeding stopped.

My DW apologised profusely at the time and followed by loads of hugs we went home.

But now I feel like an idiot covering up for an angry aggressive person.

[AdoraBell]

You are not an idiot. It is very, very hard to realise the person you love/loved is the person you now see in front of you. To put it bluntly, no one wants to say they married a monster. Or admit that they are a monster. This is why abusers put on a front. That's exactly what it is, a facade.

You need to speak to someone on a professional level, GP would be a good option. What about work, do they have any kind of counsellor and would you be able to approach them?

This has already escalated and will continue to do so until someone gets seriously hurt. Your wife is also teaching your DDs what to look for in a partner because this is their normal. Someone else up thread tried to tell you that it could all be turned around if you try to defend yourself and you be seen as the agresser simply because you are male. It can happen and likely will happen unless you get this documented. Then you will not be able to pull your wife off your daughter. Either daughter.

Be strong, be kind to yourself and tell someone. It is the only way you will get help for your DDs.

[flow4]

Now you have remembered more incidents, Northern, there's no way you can view this as a 'one off' or isolated incident, is there? I think you need to tell someone now, because your daughters are potentially at risk - both of them - and you must do something to safeguard your children.

I think you should seriously consider phoning children's services yourself, and asking for help. If not them, then your GP. There will be a child protection/safeguarding concern raised in any case, as soon as you talk to anyone, or your DD discloses to anyone like a teacher. There may have been one already, depending on what your DD and/or DW have already disclosed.

Children's services will make an assessment of whether the children are safe. If they find two parents who are 'hiding' what is happening, they will conclude neither of you can keep them safe... It would be far better to work with them, and take their advice and support.

There have already been two serious incidents (at least?) - a head injury and a throttling - and so far you have not disclosed or sought help. It sounds like your daughter didn't get medical attention following a head injury. That mustn't happen again.

It would be best for your wife to seek help herself, because children's services will want to be satisfied that she acknowledges the problem, is getting help and has strategies to stop herself hurting anyone. But if she won't do that, right now, you really must seek help yourself. It will be seen - as it is - as a sign that you take this seriously, and can and will keep your children safe.

It's a terrible situation to find yourself in, and telling someone will not be easy. But it's less terrible and difficult to tell someone than to do nothing.

Good luck.

[Madamecastafiore]

You tell your wife to get help or you will start proceedings to leave her.

You tell her that next time something like this happens and she attacks you or dd that you will call the police and have her charged.

You go up to your child and tell her that you will protect her from her mothers violence as she has the right to be safe and protected in her own home.

I am trying not to get cross here but you need to take some responsibility for the situation if your wife won't. It's sad but it seems a mother attacking a child is more acceptable than a stranger as you can bet that if this was some random joe who assaulted her in the street you would afford her the level of respect and protection she deserves and report it to the police.

You are bringing up your child to think it acceptable to be abused by others, sadly those who are supposed to love, cherish and protect her.

[mignonette]

This puts a different spin on things doesn't it OP?

You are now complicit in the abuse of your daughter unless you do something.

You need to contact your GP and ask him/her to work with you and SS to deal with this situation.

NOW.

[cory]

The other posters are absolutely right: you cannot afford to wait and see. You have got to do something NOW.

Your dd is not safe against future attacks from your dw- another head injury could easily kill her. Anyone who has banged their head like you describe should have seen a doctor.

You will not be able to persuade SS that your first priority is to keep the children safe if you do not act now.

And finally if you teach your dd that violent attacks are ok as long as you say sorry and hug afterwards you are setting her up for a lifetime of potential abuse from a future partner.

It must be absolutely horrible for you, but you are her father; if you cannot keep her safe and teach her ways to stay safe, then nobody else can. Hard as it is, you must force yourself to do this.

You are not going back on anything you have agreed with your wife or betraying her in any way: she is the one who is going back on her promise to see the doctor.

Phoning children's services sounds like good advice.

[SunshineBossaNova]

Northern, I am so sorry you and your DC are in this situation.

Please think about involving authorities (social services, police). You and your DC should not be scared to live in your own home.

There is a very useful book by Lundy Bancroft called 'Why does he do that?' - it's about abusive men but you may find it enlightening.

I've been with an abusive man (mainly EA) and it is horrifying. Luckily for me I only had to get myself sorted.

Best of luck OP.

[OrmirianResurgam]

I have been aggressive and uncontrollably angry before - never actually hit anyone but shouted and kicked things in frustration. I once scared my eldest child when I got into a towering rage with him. I am utterly ashamed but it happened. It happened because I had undiagnosed PND after the birth of my second child. It has happened to a lesser extent when I try to come off my meds. I suspect your wife needs to have her med looked at - they may not be working for her.

I have learned my lesson. I will never allow myself to get to the point ever again. I don't think your wife is taking her condition seriously.

[GoodbyeRubyTuesday]

NorthernDad I appreciate this must be incredibly hard for you, but you haven't actually mentioned taking any action apart from talking to your wife and daughter. The longer you leave this the harder it will be, and the longer your wife will have had to minimise it in her mind and make up excuses. You need to do something. You and your children are at serious risk from physical abuse. Did you seek medical attention for your daughter when your wife cut her head? It seems like you've been, possibly unintentionally, helping your wife cover up the abuse. If the situation was reversed I expect all the posters would be telling your wife to kick you out, regardless of any mental problems. Please, please take action and deal with this properly. It's all very well going to the GP and getting medical help for your wife, but treatment will take time to work, if it works at all. In the meantime, your children are at risk :(

[Libertine73]

Northern Time to get real. You do know if she had scratched the children like that SS would be involved don't you?

You have to realise something terrible could happen here, it really could.

she sees red, and you have 2 children in her care, please do something!!

[AdoraBell]

NorthernDad how are you doing tonight?

[Minifingers]

Sorry for you all OP.

My 14 year old dd has attacked me physically and verbally, wrecked the house, abused her younger siblings and I have on about three occasions become physical with her, in response to her (physically) pushing me up against a wall and screaming in my face or shoving and body blocking me. It's hideous. Would point out, my dd is as big and is stronger than me.

I second all the recommendations for your wife to get help immediately. She can't allow herself to EVER be physical with your dd again. It was a promise I made to myself after the last time things got physical between myself and my child - and I have adhered to it despite severe provocation from my dd. I hope your wife can do the same.

[northernDad38]

I've booked Doctors appointments for DW and myself. DW does not want to go and refers to me forcing her into going. The stress Levels are already rising this weekend I'm hoping to talk everything through with my parents too. The worry is really getting to me, I've not been sleeping well and my work is starting to suffer.

[cupoftchai]

HI NorthernDad
This is a really stressful situation for you and I do empathise. I can hear you saying that you want to change the situation. However making changes is going to be very difficult - look at anyone in an abusive situation, their self esteem and confidence gets chipped away at, they are frightened, then they have to stand up to the abuser and make massive changes to their life: of course that is difficult!
But your daughters are the vulnerable ones here and you are the person in the right place to help them. You can do it!
Making doctors appointments is unlikely to be enough on its own. You need to nurture a sense of urgency in yourself. Think about the harm that has been done already to your girls, think about the ongoing effects of living with fear - it's not good.
What can you do to make them safe? How will you know when they are safe? and when you are all safe? - you deserve, too, not to be physically or emotionally harmed.

social work and police. you can ring children and families social work and talk through your situation. It would be braver to do this, giving your name, and letting them come to meet you. However if you need to talk to them first anonymously then that is better than nothing.

THey will ask why you didn't act already. don't leave it any longer. Do prepare yourself to be asked about the way you respond to stress and violence, and whether you have ever been violent yourself.

Put yourself in touch with a resource helping men who have been subject to domestic abuse - there are very few, but I know of one in wales which takes phone calls from all over. you can google it.

good luck.

[cupoftchai]

www.mankind.org.uk/ this was already recommended upthread. they have a helpline.

also these
www.mensadviceline.org.uk/mens_advice.php
helpline, more advice.

call them!

[cupoftchai]

www.mankind.org.uk/ this was already recommended upthread. they have a helpline.

also these
www.mensadviceline.org.uk/mens_advice.php
helpline, more advice.

call them!