Daughter and wife in physical fight - what to do?

[northernDad38]

My 13 yr old daughter is really pushing boundaries at the moment, all the usual smirking and cheeky answers etc. But today which was meant to be a family day began with her refusing to put her shoes on. It sounds silly but it just got more and more antagonistic.

I managed to make peace with her and she helped me in the garden for a an hour or so.

But before we went out an argument about clothes with her mother got so out of hand I had to physically step in and pull them apart as her mum was actually trying to throttle her.

They both said appalling things which neither really mean and they spent the rest of the afternoon apart, and things have calmed down now but U'm just so shaken and upset by what happened I just don't want anything like this to happen again...

[sparklingstars]

Your wife needs to get help. Social Services would take a very dim view of it if they were aware.

[TheFallenNinja]

What you have here is a ticking bomb. Examine your priorities, the only one that is correct, it's your children.

Take control.

[LesserSpottedNeckSnake]

I really feel for you. It must be hard to feel like your loyalties are being torn. But really, they're not. Your 13 year old child has to be your priority. She needs to feel safe. I have two DC, and yes sometimes they drive me to 'see red'. You walk away. You scream. Maybe you hit something inanimate as hard as you can. You never, ever put your hands around their throat. That isn't 'seeing red', that is a choice. A mother who is violent is every bit as damaging to a child as a father who is, make no mistake. The fact that your wife is now minimising it, getting aggressive when you remind her she promised to go to the GP, does not bode well. I know it's hard, I know it feels easier to let it slide, but please, please don't. Teenagers are difficult, gobby and unpleasant at times. They grow out of it. Your wife won't grow out of her behaviour. She needs to go and prove that she wants to change. If she doesn't, then she won't. And your toddler is even more vulnerable than your 13 year old.

[HighJinx]

What an awful situation OP.

My concern about your wife is that you say she 'sees red'. Maybe I am misinterpreting this but I read this as her snapping and becoming out of control. If this is the case then getting her agreement, when she is calm and thinking straight, that violence is entirely unacceptable is worthless. The next time she reaches a point where she is unable to control herself then all rational thought will leave her again.

This leads me to question what do you think would have happened if you hadn't been there to intervene?

The reasons for your DW's loss of control will no doubt be deeply buried and you both need to understand that getting to the bottom of them may well be a long, difficult process that she must be entirely committed to.

I am concerned that she seems less sorry for her actions already and was angry with you this morning when you mentioned her going to see a doctor. She isn't going to change without a real commitment to making it happen and already she seems less concerned by her actions than she should be.

[mignonette]

Worral

I pushed my Mother to the point of insanity. I am not playing the victim by shouldering my part of the responsibility for the faulty family dynamics. I knew I was being a little shit but I did it to punish her for various things I was angry about. Teenage girls can be absolutely hair raising and I have brought up three of them to successful adulthood plus two boys. I do know. Wrong of Op's wife to do what she did but to say it is victim blaming to ascribe some responsibility to the daughter is not victim blaming. It is role modelling for adult hood whereby we learn about how our behaviours impact upon others. We learn to be sensitive to vulnerability. Just as parents learn too.

[whiteandyellowiris]

wow how horrible for you
I think your wife is really the most in the wrong

[Lanceolate]

It is victim blaming.

Some of you seem to have missed this too

'My wife is under treatment for severe emotional issues (not an excuse, just a fact). But when she sees red she cannot be argued or reasoned with.'

[Lanceolate]

Your wife should not be alone with the children when she can't control herself.

[mignonette]

And that doesn't mean I am an apologist for violence. The wife needs to get help and there needs to be an ultimatum. The daughter is old enough to understand MH issues but not sure that MH can be blamed for revisionist behaviour on the part of the wife. If she backtracks, there will be consequences. However OP, please go and see the doctor yourself and discuss with them, what has happened and what you can do. That will ensure that your wife doesn't underplay the fracture that has happened in your home life.

Your Daughter needs to feel safe that her Daddy will not let this drop, that you will not allow your wife to push in under the carpet. Equally the tightrope you are walking means it will be hard to not be seen to take 'sides'. Both parties need to observe boundaries- your wife to control herself and walk away from conflict and your DD to do the same as your wife gains the help she needs to address this.

In the meantime is there anybody DD could stay with for a couple of days? Could you go with her if your wife refuses to get help? That will tell your daughter that you are protecting her should your wife not take seriously your boundaries regarding change?

[Lanceolate]

A 13 year old will push boundaries. A 2 year old has no idea of boundaries. Someone who has to be physically restrained because they're throttling their child should not be left alone with them.

[lunar1]

You wife needs to leave while she sorts her issues. If a man did the same to his child you would have 100 posters saying ring the police and have him removed.

A person who sees red and has no control has no place in a home with children.

[mignonette]

I do find it rather ironic that some of the posters on here most vehemently angry at the actions of the Mother and suggestions by posters that there has been 'pushing buttons' by the daughter sound so aggressive. One wonders about how they behave at home under stress when they lose their cool so spectacularly on here.

[Lanceolate]

Yes. Because it's so funny when people react to someone wrapping their hands round a child's throat and try to choke them

Balanced, normal adults can get irate without resorting to physical violence.

[thornrose]

Northerndad I have posted on here quite a lot about my violent dd. She has AS she is almost 14.

She has kicked me, scratched me and pulled my hair. She has used the most foul and abusive language. She has sneered and smirked and "goaded" me for a reaction. She has thrown things at me.

I don't retaliate, I don't put my hands on her.

Your dd is only 13, this is just the start of her teen behaviour, I imagine she could get worse! Your wife has to get some urgent help, she really does.

I would be issuing ultimatums!

[TheFallenNinja]

Pack her bags. Your child's safety comes first.

[mignonette]

It is funnily ironic to see so much aggressive !!!!! posting. I would be inclined to be sceptical of the advice of posters who cannot control their own written aggression.

Yes balanced normal adults can get irate without resorting to violence. But OP's wife is not balanced is she? It appears to emotional issues overlaid with personality and an ultimatum needs to be issued regarding action with a built in time limit. If help has not been sought within a particular , the OP may have to think about removing himself and the children or the wife. But he needs to put measures in place to ensure his children have somebody else with them (Grandparents? Friends? Aunts or Uncles?).

[Lanceolate]

She's already getting help. What she did is enough to involve social services and have her arrested. That's fairly serious.

[thornrose]

My wife is under treatment for severe emotional issues but presumably this recent incident hasn't been mentioned yet?

[WorraLiberty]

It is funnily ironic to see so much aggressive !!!!! posting. I would be inclined to be sceptical of the advice of posters who cannot control their own written aggression.

Are you suggesting that tapping buttons on a keyboard is in any way similar to abusing a child?

Really mignonette??

Words fail me...

[TheFallenNinja]

Sees red.
Cannot be reasoned with.
Changes story.
Puts hands around child's throat.
Is violent to partner.

In isolation each of these represent a threat to child safety, together they are a recipe for disaster.

No amount of nicey nicey will deal with this.

Take the holder of all these traits and remove them to another place and try whatever therapies are deemed appropriate.

[mignonette]

NorthernDad

Asking you wife to leave until she accelerates the help she is getting is all fair and well until she refuses to go. It is hard to actually remove somebody from their home unless you involve the law.

The Gp for you is your first port of call along with a call to the MN team if your wife is receiving help from them. If she is not and she is only receiving low level counselling from say, a Gp counsellor then ask for a CMHT referral. Ask if you can be referred to child and adolescent psychiatry team too (if you have one locally) as they will not only be able to support your daughter and you, they can place pressure upon your wife to engage with the services. Also ask if there is a Crisis Intervention Service available. Barnardo's can help too as can Childline, Respect, the NSPCC, Kidscape and The Mankind Initiative, the latter set up to support male partners of abusive people. All have websites with great sources of help.

Secondly, in the meantime can you take special leave or carers leave from work? I would advise that and use the time to take your DD out, away from the home for a proper chat. Whilst not burdening her with too much information, you can gently probe to see what she wants to happen, what she fears might happen and what contingency plans she wants put in place so she feels safeguarded.

Calling the police is not the answer unless you want to go down a road you may not be able to salvage anything from.


Your wife needs an ultimatum. By your words and your actions.

[Lanceolate]

If medical professionals find out what she did then surely child protection would require them to report it?

[cestlesautres]

The first thing is for your dw to get a proper diagnosis. Then any attempt to blame your dd for her (your dw's) behaviour will be seen for what it is. Some people with serious mental health issues have great difficulty accepting responsibility for their own actions, and will go to great lengths to blame others - including, and especially, their own children, who are too young to defend themselves adequately; are often misbelieved; and can be guilt-tripped into blaming themselves when it is not their fault .

[Libertine73]

She won't let you go to the GP with her?? she doesn't sound serious mate, and she absolutely needs to be.

chances are she will tell GP she's getting cross quickly with the kids, and feeling more anxious, she needs to be honest, you need to be there.

Once again, you have my sympathy, but I'm wondering if you have gone to work today?